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proud uncle
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Central Texas
Observing Jura Mountains.
      #2690781 - 10/10/08 10:15 AM

This is among my favorite physical features on the moon to observe. It has the appearance of a semi-circle of rugged mountains overlooking Sinus [name??] on the NW side of Mare Imbrium. The mountains appear to increase in height as the range moves from NE to SW, with the most rugged appearing portion closer to the SW end. It really has the appearance of a cliff overlooking a lake or bay. With just a little imagination, even the dorsa and rilles on the floor of the Sinus resemble waves. Because of the orientation of the mountains, there was very little shadowing to observe. One small peak on the NW end cast a trianguar shadow on the Sinus floor. I really look forward to when I can observe sunset on the Jura's rather than sunrise. That should show some impressive shadowing!

I have not yet had an opportunity to get Charles Wood's book The Modern Moon , so I don't know what he says regarding the geology of this region. But, I had a couple questions/observations re. this to invite your comment on.

What are the estimated heights for these mountains?

This very much appears like a very large half crater with a steeply rising wall on the NW side, with the SE wall buried under the floor of Imbrium. I wondered if this could be the remnants of a very large crater or small mare that preceded the Imbrium impact, and became at least half buried by the lava flow from the Imbrium impact?

Thanks.

--------------------
Kenneth



Zhumell 10" Dobsonian (f/4.9)
2" 32mm WA eyepiece
9mm, 12.5mm, and 20mm Plossls
6mm TMB/BO Planetary
2" 2x ED Barlow
Nikon 10x50 binocular (6.5 deg FOV)


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Mare Nectaris
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 03/09/08
Posts: 1069
Loc: Toijala, Finland
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: proud uncle]
      #2690841 - 10/10/08 10:53 AM

Hi Kenneth,
thanks for that interesting observation report!

On this Moon-Wiki page you can find lots of info upon the Jura Mountains.

On page 37 in Charles A. Wood's book "The Modern Moon. A Personal View" (Sky Publishing Corporation, Cambridge, Massachusetts 2003) there is the following text there:

"Sinus Iridum, like Plato and Archimedes, is a crater that formed after the Imbrium basin but before the subsequent mare flooding... The southern rim of Sinus Iridum is missing. Where did it go? The most likely explanation is that the Sinus Iridum projectile impacted on the sloping floor of the Imbrium basin and that the southern rim is buried under mare lava".

The older theory (by Urry) was that it was the very same projectile that excavated Sinus Iridum - just before the very instant it formed the Imbrium basin. This theory, as mentioned above, has nowadays- according to Charles A. Wood - been proven wrong.

Be well!

--------------------
Share - and you shall have it all

Timo Keski-Petäjä

CtheMoon

Observation shelter KuuMaja (MoonHut)

TAL 250K*Celestron C8-N*SkyWatcher Skymax 150 Pro*TAL1(Mizar)*EQ6 Pro SynScan*Celestron Advanced GT (CG-5 GOTO)*Baader Hyperion Clickstop Zoom 8-24*17 mm UWA-70*TeleVue BIG 2x Barlow*Celestron 2x Barlow Ultima SV Series


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proud uncle
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Central Texas
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: Mare Nectaris]
      #2691243 - 10/10/08 02:24 PM

Thanks, Timo. It makes sense that Sinus Iridum formed after Mare Imbrium -- it explains why the northern rim of Iridum is so sharp and vivid. The Wikipedia Article is interesting. Following one of the linked LPOD Articles leads to a short article by Charles Wood. There, he further suggests there may be a fault line which caused the southern half of Sinus Iridum to fall before the lava flow from Iridum filled it in, causing the southern rim to be totally buried.

--------------------
Kenneth



Zhumell 10" Dobsonian (f/4.9)
2" 32mm WA eyepiece
9mm, 12.5mm, and 20mm Plossls
6mm TMB/BO Planetary
2" 2x ED Barlow
Nikon 10x50 binocular (6.5 deg FOV)


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droid
rocketman
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Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 3114
Loc: ohio
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: proud uncle]
      #2692398 - 10/11/08 07:03 AM Attachment (6 downloads)

Not to whip a dead horse or anything.....but Peter Lloyd has an excellant page on iridum

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/peter.lloyd3/Moon/Craters/SinusIridum.html

and if yall dont mind..........heres a photo taken back in January of 2008 with my 8 inch SCT.

--------------------
andy


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Mare Nectaris
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/09/08
Posts: 1069
Loc: Toijala, Finland
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: droid]
      #2692430 - 10/11/08 08:09 AM

Thanks for that link Andy!

And your pic has captured very impressive illumination demonstrating the tilting of the Iridum in a pretty cool manner!

Thanks for sharing!

--------------------
Share - and you shall have it all

Timo Keski-Petäjä

CtheMoon

Observation shelter KuuMaja (MoonHut)

TAL 250K*Celestron C8-N*SkyWatcher Skymax 150 Pro*TAL1(Mizar)*EQ6 Pro SynScan*Celestron Advanced GT (CG-5 GOTO)*Baader Hyperion Clickstop Zoom 8-24*17 mm UWA-70*TeleVue BIG 2x Barlow*Celestron 2x Barlow Ultima SV Series


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droid
rocketman
*****

Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 3114
Loc: ohio
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: Mare Nectaris]
      #2692608 - 10/11/08 10:10 AM

Timo; I'll take that as a compliment,. After seeing your web site.You take very nice even awesome pictures. I get lucky once or twice a year,lol.

--------------------
andy


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sp.
newbie


Reged: 10/10/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Budapest
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: droid]
      #2693143 - 10/11/08 03:06 PM

Hi everybody!
Im new here, but I have two questions:
- Why Sinus Iridum is called Sinus Iridum? (bay of rainbow) Before yesterday i had a great view, when terminator crossed this area. The hills/stones on the top of the mountains of Jura made a glory/arc over the dark bay (fantastic). Riccioli, (from whom the name came from) probably had a „simplet” (not acro/apo). These little reflection points can make a rainbow over the bay. Maybe thats the ansver for the name, and not the regular form of the bay, as i believed till that time. But im not sure. I was looking for answer on the web, but not found. Thats why i ask for your help, hopefully somebody knows about it.

- Then, I started to look for a „SinusIridumSunriseMovie”, but not yet found. Im sure somewhere it must exists, because it should be a really good work for astrophoto makers.

Thanks:
sp.


Ps: sorry for my poor english

--------------------
Peter Safar


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Jim Mosher
sage
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Reged: 05/22/06
Posts: 228
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: sp.]
      #2694680 - 10/12/08 12:04 PM

Welcome to the "Lunie Bin", Peter!

Were you observing Sinus Iridum just as the Moon was about to set? At such times the strong atmospheric refraction (which varies with wavelength) can stretch bright patches of light on the Moon -- or, in other phases, the entire bright crescent of the Moon -- into little rainbows of spectral colors, just as you can see if you look at Venus or a very bright star when they are very close to the horizon. But since this effect arises in the Earth's atmosphere, the quality of the telescope really has very little to do with it -- the rising/setting Moon looks no more or less colorful to a modern observer than it would have to Riccioli.

I don't know if Riccioli actually observed the Moon much himself or not. As I understand it, he mostly added labels to a map made by his friend Grimaldi. But yes, all the telescopes of that day (1651) were refractors with small singlet objectives, so that is what Grimaldi would have used. One characteristic of such telescopes is that the observer sees a halo of purple light around bright features, but the visual effect is much less striking than most people imagine, and, unless the telescope is badly out of alignment (or the object on the horizon), it doesn't look much like a rainbow. For an example of how a digital camera sees the color at the lunar terminator imaged with the modern equivalent of a very old telescope look here (the image on the right is the Sun photographed with a mylar filter over the objective); and for additional color photos of bright stars and planets here (notice that the camera sees lots of color, but the fringing is not usually obvious -- and the human eye sees even less).

I suspect your original assumption is correct: Riccioli was probably thinking more about the overall arc shape of the mountains that border his "bay", than of any color he may have observed there at sunrise. He probably also liked the play of words of putting his Rainbow on the shore of his Mare Imbrium (= Sea of Rain or Showers).

Regarding a time-lapse movie sequence showing sunrise over the Montes Jura, I don't know if there is one or not. I did recently start to a assemble a series of internet-posted still photos showing the changing appearance of Sinus Iridum as the sun rises over Montes Jura. They are displayed in order of increasing sun angle. But that's not quite the same as a movie.

Keep in mind that over the 7 or 8 hours that this phase is visible from a given location on a given night the sun angle over Sinus Iridum changes by only about 2°; so a single photographer can capture only a small part of the sequence. Capturing the "complete" sunrise sequence for a particular lunation would take a coordinated effort by astrophotographers on different continents.

-- Jim


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sp.
newbie


Reged: 10/10/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Budapest
Re: Observing Jura Mountains. new [Re: Jim Mosher]
      #2696851 - 10/13/08 03:57 PM


Hi Jim!
My theory was coming from my mind, not from my scope. I was observing it with my new 12”dob, on 400x. But when i read your post, i realized that i mixed two „hypotesis”, the arc over the Mare Imbrium (and/or Sinus Iridum) and the scope used by Grimaldi/Riccioli. The first with your explination can be realistic. Should be good to find something/somebody in Bologna deepen in an old old biblothek.:)
The movie must be done by somebody. Ok, not a full one. Im sure and probably im not alone with that opinion, thats one of the greatest sunrise over the Moon. The terminator is the most interestig part, its always different, can give many theme for „moonmovie” makers. Photos are great and beautiful, but i mean a movie can give back much more better the behaviour of the Moon.
sp.

--------------------
Peter Safar


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