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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Levine
super member


Reged: 03/24/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Indiana, Wabash County
Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new
      #2664578 - 09/26/08 01:18 PM

It's legendary performance and equally legendary pricetag are, well, the stuff of LEGEND in our hobby.
But has time and technology passed it by?
Let's face it: Al's HolyHandGrenade (aka the Terminagler) costs less, and delivers comparable performance. And it, as well as other similar, if not lesser, alternatives are more readily available.
And with the very real prospect of a >20 mm Ethos on the horizon, it seems harder than ever to justify this much lauded ocular.
So: unless you are a collector, rabid completist, seeking bragging rights, and/or have adequate disposable income to bring to bear for this purchase, are there still good enough reasons to include the Leitz in your EP case?

--------------------
JMI NGT-18 Reflector, "Magellan"
C11 CFT XLT Fastar, "Dave"
CotoSKY 8.25" f/6 Achromat, "Blackjack"
Meade AR6 Achro, "Kalliopi"
WO FLT 110 Apo, "Apollo"
Coronado PST "Icarus"
Canon IS 15 X 50 Binoculars
Losmandy G11/Gemini4
Discmounts DM-6, Sky Commander, StarBeam
Denk II Universal Power X Switch Binoviewer
Collins I3/Astronomik H-a/Starsweeper
...and some nice glass.


Edited by Levine (09/26/08 03:14 PM)


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dvb
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 1899
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Levine]
      #2664668 - 09/26/08 01:46 PM

Lots of reasons to include it from an observing perspective

The question is how much do you want to pay for it!

--------------------
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Newt on Matilda
Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 Collapsible Dob
Meade 8" SN f/4
Celestron C8 SCT
Celestron C6 SCT
Skywatcher ED100
Skywatcher ED80
EQ6 Pro "Matilda"
AT Voyager
Skymaster 15x70
Mallincam HyperColor Plus



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dothead
super member


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 105
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Levine]
      #2665046 - 09/26/08 04:58 PM

Levine,

it's always a dangerous thing to judge an eyepiece only from it's specifications.
Almost everybody (myself included) who has actually looked through both eyepieces (Leitz 30/88 & Nagler 31/82) just found the Leitz much more immersive and comfortable - really a different viewing experience.
Only when you go to sub F/5 scopes does the edge correction of the Nagler become noticibly superior to the Leitz.
Until an Ethos 25+ becomes available, there's just no other more spacewalky thing on earth!

Ralph


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Levine
super member


Reged: 03/24/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Indiana, Wabash County
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: dothead]
      #2665161 - 09/26/08 06:10 PM

Quote:

Levine,

it's always a dangerous thing to judge an eyepiece only from it's specifications.
Almost everybody (myself included) who has actually looked through both eyepieces (Leitz 30/88 & Nagler 31/82) just found the Leitz much more immersive and comfortable - really a different viewing experience.
Only when you go to sub F/5 scopes does the edge correction of the Nagler become noticibly superior to the Leitz.
Until an Ethos 25+ becomes available, there's just no other more spacewalky thing on earth!

Ralph




Ralph, I am somewhat inclined to agree with you. despite the rhetorical tone of my post, I have owned no fewer than FOUR of these over the years, and I always seem drawn back to them (metallic finish with blue stripe, black with no lettering, lettering old style, and new style).
They are really something!

--------------------
JMI NGT-18 Reflector, "Magellan"
C11 CFT XLT Fastar, "Dave"
CotoSKY 8.25" f/6 Achromat, "Blackjack"
Meade AR6 Achro, "Kalliopi"
WO FLT 110 Apo, "Apollo"
Coronado PST "Icarus"
Canon IS 15 X 50 Binoculars
Losmandy G11/Gemini4
Discmounts DM-6, Sky Commander, StarBeam
Denk II Universal Power X Switch Binoviewer
Collins I3/Astronomik H-a/Starsweeper
...and some nice glass.


Edited by Levine (09/27/08 04:49 PM)


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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 4262
Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Levine]
      #2665176 - 09/26/08 06:20 PM

I don't think fine eyepieces ever get obsolete, no matter how the technology advances. Good is good.

--------------------
- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C


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ltha
member
*****

Reged: 11/22/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Long Beach, CA
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #2665565 - 09/26/08 11:27 PM

I have owned both the 30mm Leitz "88*", 31mm Nagler and two Pentax 30mm XWs. The Leitz was the absolute favorite and impressed me far more than the 31mm N. But the best deal w/r to performance v cost was the XW. One day I WILL by another Letiz.

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Bill Weir
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 880
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: ltha]
      #2665661 - 09/27/08 12:51 AM

Just curious of those who owned one but don't now. If it was so great why don't you still own it? Then there is buying 4. Do you still have any in your possession? The only reason I can see for buying then selling then buying another would be if there was profit in that scenario. If I have something I really like, I keep it.

I'm curious now to look through one of these. Doubt if I'd ever buy one though. Just not into the low power view. Don't have that many sheckles to throw around either. Then again it can be dangerous to look through something of high quality. Nice glass is enticing.

Bill

--------------------
6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar II ED Doublet
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want

Observing sessions grand total for 2007, 171.
So far in 2008, 111


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Keith Howlett
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 708
Loc: Northumberland, UK
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #2665743 - 09/27/08 03:03 AM

Quote:

The only reason I can see for buying then selling then buying another would be if there was profit in that scenario. If I have something I really like, I keep it.




Well, maybe, but I've bought three brand new x5 Televue Powermates, I just sold them because I thought I'd done with using that size each time.


I'm curious, and I've never seen a Leitz spec - is it more immersive because of something like eye relief?

Keith

--------------------
14" f10 RCOS / AP1200
AP 105 Traveler / AP400 QMD
Coronado SM90 Filter


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Levine
super member


Reged: 03/24/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Indiana, Wabash County
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #2665849 - 09/27/08 07:24 AM

Quote:

Just curious of those who owned one but don't now. If it was so great why don't you still own it? Then there is buying 4. Do you still have any in your possession? The only reason I can see for buying then selling then buying another would be if there was profit in that scenario. If I have something I really like, I keep it.

I'm curious now to look through one of these. Doubt if I'd ever buy one though. Just not into the low power view. Don't have that many sheckles to throw around either. Then again it can be dangerous to look through something of high quality. Nice glass is enticing.

Bill




Rather than profit as a motive for selling, I had simply not pulled it out of the case frequently enough to warrant keeping such a premium EP. So I would sell. And then have "seller's regret." And buy again. Etc, etc.
And guess what: I'm probably going to do it again, but this time, I'm gonna keep it...really!

--------------------
JMI NGT-18 Reflector, "Magellan"
C11 CFT XLT Fastar, "Dave"
CotoSKY 8.25" f/6 Achromat, "Blackjack"
Meade AR6 Achro, "Kalliopi"
WO FLT 110 Apo, "Apollo"
Coronado PST "Icarus"
Canon IS 15 X 50 Binoculars
Losmandy G11/Gemini4
Discmounts DM-6, Sky Commander, StarBeam
Denk II Universal Power X Switch Binoviewer
Collins I3/Astronomik H-a/Starsweeper
...and some nice glass.


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rmollise
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 1564
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Levine]
      #2666039 - 09/27/08 10:20 AM

Quote:

It's legendary performance and equally legendary pricetag are, well, the stuff of LEGEND in our hobby.
But has time and technology passed it by?
Let's face it: Al's HolyHandGrenade (aka the Terminagler) costs less, and delivers comparable performance. And it, as well as other similar, if not lesser, alternatives are more readily available.
And with the very real prospect of a >20 mm Ethos on the horizon, it seems harder than ever to justify this much lauded ocular.
So: unless you are a collector, rabid completist, seeking bragging rights, and/or have adequate disposable income to bring to bear for this purchase, are there still good enough reasons to include the Leitz in your EP case?




Only if you like looking at those famous words, "Ernst Leitz, Wetzlar," which a lot of folks still do.

But IMHO, you're pretty much on the money. Unless you like and use the eyepiece, why keep it around otherwise? It was stupendous back in the day, even if it was not originally designed for use with telescopes. But...



--------------------
Uncle Rod

Watch for Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using the New CATs--coming soon!


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ltha
member
*****

Reged: 11/22/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Long Beach, CA
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: rmollise]
      #2666079 - 09/27/08 10:55 AM

I sold my 30mm Leitz because every now and then I look at performance v cost and figure something less expensive will do, especially if the item is one seldom used. That is what I did with the 31mm Nag, 30mm Leitz and 30mm XW comparison. I found the Leitz to be incredibly sharp and have a very accessible field of view. It balanced in my Portaball where the Nagler did not. The XW though having a less spectacular field of view, is incredibly sharp and far more reasonable than either of the other two so I went with it. Now I have a really long focal length scope (5,000) and may be getting one even longer (6,100mm)which means a 30mm will get far more use. So I am thinking about the Leitz once again.


14 October 2005

Out for another round with Mars and Saturn, this time I had the 12.5" Portaball set up. Conditions were good enough that 300x gave crisp, detailed images of both planets in moments of best seeing. So much so that I dropped in the 3mm Radian to see what over 500x would yield. On Saturn it was actually quite good though the instability of the atmosphere became apparent and one had to wait for fleeting moments of better seeing. Surprisingly good though. On Mars the same power seemed to wash out the detail. I did not try the filter with the 3mm, maybe it would have helped.

At 300x I swung the scope around to Orion and placed M42 in the field- the “e” and “f” components shone like beacons and the nebula extended far beyond the field of view. The 19mm Panoptic was a nicer overall image as it took in so much more of the nebula and surrounding sky. All wonderful eyepieces, wish I did not like them so much.

Also gave the 30mm Leitz its first try in the Portaball- excellent images and no issues with balance at all. It does pull in more sky than the 30mm Pentax XW and seems to be sharper farther out in the FOV. Still undecided about keeping it, lots of money for a slight improvement- but it sure is a neat eyepiece!


29 & 30 October 2005

I have been out with the 8" D&G the last few nights. What a wonderful experience using this scope! It is such a classic looking thing and the images are excellent given good seeing. Not such good seeing yet. Turning the scope on the double-double with the 30mm Leitz yielded clean separation at 80x. The Leitz is amazingly sharp and the entire FOV easily seen. I swung the scope a short distance to Vega and say a lot of blue surrounding the star, kind of a blue cotton ball with a star embedded within. My FS-152 has as slight bit of color on Vega so I was not too surprised. I don’t actually spend all that much time observing Vega anyway. The biggest problem has been unstable skies. Second is the dew! Lots and lots of it causing my objective to fog up.



13 November 2005

Out with the D&G 8" F/12 and 12.5" Portaball. I have been curious for a while now about how these two stack up against one another, especially as the PB has the curved secondary support. Unfortunately, the seeing has been unstable for the last while. Plus the dew has been terrible- I can not remember having such issues with dewing. It was so bad this morning that the D&G was streaming water and soaking my leg as I sat observing. And I kept having to use a hair dryer to clear the objective. I actually had the secondary on the PB dew over and had to wait a long time for the dew heater Pete includes with the scope to have any effect.

MOON

After setting each scope up, I let them cool a while and then took a look at the gibbous Moon. I spent most of the time on Gassendi and the area around Mare Humorum. The PB was running at 160x with a Pentax 10mm XW and the D&G about 170x with my favorite Meade 14mm UWA. The level of detail was very close- the D&G was giving a tighter image at first and I was able to see finer detail inside Gassendi. I could see everything in the PB as well but focus was far more


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WRose
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/08/05
Posts: 1043
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #2692200 - 10/11/08 12:43 AM

Quote:

Just curious of those who owned one but don't now. If it was so great why don't you still own it? Then there is buying 4. Do you still have any in your possession? The only reason I can see for buying then selling then buying another would be if there was profit in that scenario. If I have something I really like, I keep it.

{snip}

Bill




FWIW, I purchased one 31mm Nagler and one Leitz many years ago.
Kept both and did extensive comparison testing with them for 4+ years in well over a dozen scopes. Then moved on to other eyepieces but kept them both for comparison testing - 1 on 1 with other ~30mm eyepieces. After a few more years I realized that when I was out viewing and not doing direct comparison testing, I never used the 31mm Nagler. It's one of the few eyepieces I've ever sold and I don't regret selling it. My 30mm Leitz is very well used and one of the few eyepieces I own that shows it, to the point I purchased a 2nd a few years ago and I don't regret that either. IMHO, optically they are unrivaled in that focal length for a wide field, immersive view. I fully realize others will disagree and as many besides myself have written repeatedly; this is hobby to be enjoyed. I totally agree, if you like what you've got, don't change! The idea is to enjoy yourself so there's no reason what-so-ever to feel like you're missing out if you enjoy the view of the heavens with a Tasco and a plossl as long as you're out there enjoying it.

--------------------
Clear Skies, Bill





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dothead
super member


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 105
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Leitz 30mm 88* obsolete...? [Re: WRose]
      #2692499 - 10/11/08 09:12 AM

Bill,

your experiences with both eyepieces echo mine exactly!

By the way, while I was doing duty in the German army and beeing a crew member of a Leopard II tank, I recall the wonderful views through the wide-angle sight-on gun system which rivalled anything in astronomical eyepieces as far as immersivness and comfort are concerned.

Ralph


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