FloridaObserver
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/06
Posts: 8
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The image was taken using a DMK 21 USB camera, processed with Registax 4, and then further processed with AIP4WIN using deconvolution, noise filter, unsharp mask and brightness and contrast adjustments. There is a lot of room for improvement, so please provide comments. Be blunt, as I am trying to perfect my techniques.
Doug L.
Edited by FloridaObserver (10/12/08 07:14 PM)
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Bart Declercq
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Haaltert, Belgium
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Seems you've certainly got the basics right, very nice tonal balance, no noticeable noise and pretty good detail.
I do have a few questions:
- what telescope did you use?
- white light, or filtered, and if so, which filter?
- how many frames did you shoot, how many of them in the stack?
- multi-point or single-point stack?
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FloridaObserver
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/06
Posts: 8
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I used a Celestron 9.25 with 2.5 Powermate. It is a white light image, no filter, 413 frames out of 2500, single point alignment.
I am just a little disappointed with my processing skills since the stacked image seemed pretty good to begin with. The final product looks a little fuzzy to me, and I expected more from the Van Cittert deconvolution. I guess processing really is an art, or the really good images out there were taken under superior conditions, e.g. Wes Higgins.
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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I don't know how good-bad was the seeing during your capture but i suggest to you the following
- Parameters for registax here
- Go for multipoint alignment here
- If you happy with you stacking... here
- Apply Wavelets as following here
- And a bit of LR deconvultion here
The video was captured Oct 29, 2006 when i was newbie in astrophoto...
- Final picture, two years old version here ...Good luck!
--------------------
Santel MK91 & MK6
IntesMicro 715
Celestron SCT6 & ONIX80 EDF
Meade SN6 & AR6
Chinese 6in MakCass.Gregory
DBK + DMK + NexImage + LPI
CG-5 & LXD75 Mounts
many EP's, Barlows and Binoviewers
Great astronomic passion 
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iceman
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 4359
Loc: Gosford, Australia
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Can you post a version of your image directly after stacking, before any wavelets or other processing?
Also why is the resolution not 640x480?
--------------------
Mike
. mikesalway.com.au - Astronomy and Photography by Mike Salway
. IceInSpace - The Australian Amateur Astronomy Community
. My Bio | My Jupiter 2007 Gallery | My Image Gallery
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FloridaObserver
journeyman
Reged: 12/07/06
Posts: 8
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Here is the stacked version with no wavelet or other processing. The original post was not 640x480 since I had to reduce it for posting.
Edited by FloridaObserver (10/14/08 06:32 AM)
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Rat8bug
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/07/05
Posts: 1358
Loc: Michigan
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Might I suggest AIP4WIN book on processing for improving skills in using deconvolution routine. Also, one of the great lunar imaging guru's, Thierry Legault. He also has
a thread on how scope collimation has a major impact on the detail of your images.
http://legault.club.fr/index.html
http://www.barrie-tao.com/astro_photo.html
Ciao....Barry
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Nikon D40/D50/D70 DSLR
WO 105mm Triplet APO
WO Zenithstar 66SD APO (Black 'n Blue)
WO 8 x 45mm APO Bino
UO 20 x 80mm Bino
Vixen 80SS Refractor
Orion 127mm Apex Maksutov
Vixen GP-DX with Skysensor 2000
SBIG STV and e-finder
Edited by Rat8bug (10/14/08 09:22 AM)
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Bart Declercq
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Haaltert, Belgium
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Quote:
I used a Celestron 9.25 with 2.5 Powermate. It is a white light image, no filter, 413 frames out of 2500, single point alignment.
I am just a little disappointed with my processing skills since the stacked image seemed pretty good to begin with. The final product looks a little fuzzy to me, and I expected more from the Van Cittert deconvolution. I guess processing really is an art, or the really good images out there were taken under superior conditions, e.g. Wes Higgins.
Thanks for the info. I would suggest a few things that have nothing at all to do with the processing, which I suspect isn't the main culprit of the fuzzyness:
1) use a red filter when filming, this is an instant sharpness upgrade over white, once you've got the hang of it and get good seeing, you can move to a green filter, never do white light, you can't really get the best results with the whole spectrum.
2)Check your collimation, then check it again, then triple-check it. Use the red filter and check it on a star, you have to be able to get a decent Airy-disk, with the first ring around it clear and undeformed. Use a star high in the sky, and do a Registax stack on it to make sure (once you have some experience with it, the collimation can easily be done visually on the live image, but stacking makes it easier at first, even if it takes a lot of time)
3) Focus, focus, focus - this is pretty hard without some sort of consistent motofocus, I use a Meade Zero Image Shift focusser on my C9.25 and find it an invaluable aid here.
Only when these three are OK is processing the next point of attention.
For that:
(1) multi-align, I use up to 30 alignment points on a DMK31, on a DMK21 anywhere between 4 and 15 may be useful (don't forget to enable feathering).
(2) stack fewer images, I usually stack between 100-200 frames in a 2000 frame AVI, though I've gotten away with 60 out of 2000.
I'm not going to claim my images are the best ever made in a C9.25, but they are at least pretty good :-)
You can compare results with these images of mine (C9.25, red or green filters and a DMK31):
This one
Or this one, though the lighting is very different.
Or this one, which is probably my highest resolution image of that area.
For an idea of what a well-collimated Airy-disk image looks like, check
this image
Regarding the processing, I typically use Registax wavelets and some sharpening in PS afterwards, perhaps your method will yield better results, but you need to get the source data near perfect first, then worry about image processing.
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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Quote:
1)...you can't really get the best results with the whole spectrum...
...
3) Focus, focus, focus - this is pretty hard without some sort of consistent motofocus...
Very interesting and informative post... look the picture i got using a two years ago video with white light and manual focus adjustments...
Oct 29, 2006 Moon pic with white light and manual focus adjustments
I always supposed no way to improve that but... now i want to try that red or green filter you suggests 
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Bart Declercq
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Haaltert, Belgium
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Quote:
Quote:
1)...you can't really get the best results with the whole spectrum...
...
3) Focus, focus, focus - this is pretty hard without some sort of consistent motofocus...
Very interesting and informative post... look the picture i got using a two years ago video with white light and manual focus adjustments...
Oct 29, 2006 Moon pic with white light and manual focus adjustments
I always supposed no way to improve that but... now i want to try that red or green filter you suggests
Well, it's true that it's possible to get perfect focus without motofocus, it's just much much harder and more timeconsuming, especially on a C9.25 which doesn't have a very good manual focusser.
And concerning the white light: it's possible to get resolution in white light which is as good as through a red filter, but you need very good seeing to pull it off, and if the seeing is that good, a green filter will always do better than white light (simply because the resolution in green is higher than in white, which also contains the lower resolution red light and will smear the very smallest details)
Now, I don't have a 7" telescope, the 9.25" is enough bigger that one can expect higher resolution, Ed Roach has an 8" LX200 which is a bit closer to your scope in size, and he's produced this
His description on the site doesn't make it clear, but I know he usually uses a green filter for his images.
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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Quote:
Well, it's true that it's possible to get perfect focus without motofocus, it's just much much harder and more timeconsuming, especially on a C9.25 which doesn't have a very good manual focusser.
Got your point, i've heard a lot of guys says SCT focusers are not really good... in the other hand i have found it is easy and fast to hand focus with the IM715 even at extreme power...
Quote:
....a green filter will always do better than white light (simply because the resolution in green is higher than in white, which also contains the lower resolution red light and will smear the very smallest details)
Now, I don't have a 7" telescope, the 9.25" is enough bigger that one can expect higher resolution, Ed Roach has an 8" LX200... His description on the site doesn't make it clear, but I know he usually uses a green filter for his images.
Amazing what a green filter can do for mooon pics even when using a Meade SCT  ...going to order mine ASAP as now i own a DMK and 3X barlow for big size mosaics with the IM715 ...thanks by share your experiences!
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Doug Neal
sage
Reged: 01/08/06
Posts: 217
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Hi,
I'm interested in learning more about these red and green filter since I've just gotten a DMK-31. I've noticed numerous excellent lunar photos posted on line that were taken with a Red filter. Can you suggest a reasonably priced Red or Green filter for getting started?
Thanks
Doug Neal
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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Quote:
... Can you suggest a reasonably priced Red or Green filter for getting started?
I second this request 
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Bart Declercq
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Haaltert, Belgium
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Quote:
Hi,
I'm interested in learning more about these red and green filter since I've just gotten a DMK-31. I've noticed numerous excellent lunar photos posted on line that were taken with a Red filter. Can you suggest a reasonably priced Red or Green filter for getting started?
Thanks
Doug Neal
It sort of depends on your definition of "reasonable" of course :-)
Your best bet is to use a red or green filter intended for RGB-imaging (CCD-work), these have a reasonably wide band pass, in theory narrow-band filters are better, but you lose too much light in the end, which means either stacking more frames or exposing individual frames longer.
I use an RGB-filterset from Astronomik (interference filters, these allow about 90% of the light in the right color to pass, absorption filters usually less than 50%) but these are certainly not the cheapes filters around.
I can only quote euro-prices, individual Astronomik filters (1-1/4" version) cost around 80 euro's and the entire set (3 colors + one clear filter) can be had for some 250 euro.
Absorption filters should be findable for between 10-20 euro's, but like I said, you lose considerably more of that precious commodity called "light" :-) and since to get the max out a DMK31, you need to work at around F/24-F/27 you need that even on the moon.
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PeteLawrence
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/07/06
Posts: 1781
Loc: Selsey, UK
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I'll second Bart's comments. I use an Astronomik R for most of my lunar work (seeing isn't generally good enough for G) and sometimes a 742nm planetary filter. This is a picture of Aristillus taken with a C-14 using the Astronomik R filter at f/27.5...
http://www.digitalsky.org.uk/moonwatching/hires-craters/album/2007-03-26_21-33-55_Red_aristillus1.jpg
--------------------
Best regards,
Pete Lawrence
http://www.digitalsky.org.uk
http://www.sunwatching.co.uk
http://www.moonwatching.co.uk
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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Quote:
I can only quote euro-prices, individual Astronomik filters (1-1/4" version) cost around 80 euro's and the entire set (3 colors + one clear filter) can be had for some 250 euro.
I'm going to take the green astronomik filter for the good seeing as i believe my current astronomik IR filter is OK for the average seeing... now i just need to locate a vendor in USA selling individual filters 
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Bart Declercq
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Haaltert, Belgium
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Quote:
I'm going to take the green astronomik filter for the good seeing as i believe my current astronomik IR filter is OK for the average seeing... now i just need to locate a vendor in USA selling individual filters
You could try contacting AVA (for example) and requesting a price for an individual filter, it's not because the website doesn't offer it, that it's impossible to get.
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Alan Friedman
sage
Reged: 08/30/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
I'm going to take the green astronomik filter for the good seeing as i believe my current astronomik IR filter is OK for the average seeing... now i just need to locate a vendor in USA selling individual filters
I would invest in the RGB set. There are so many projects you can tackle with RGB filters and a monochrome camera. Be sure to get an RGB set that are coated to block IR - the Astronomik set is a very good choice.
just my .02
Alan
--------------------
Alan Friedman
www.avertedimagination.com
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isramirez
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/04/05
Posts: 762
Loc: Mexico City
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Bart and Alan,
Thank you so much for advice...
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Doug Neal
sage
Reged: 01/08/06
Posts: 217
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Thanks here too....VG Info.
Doug
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