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WadeVC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 2799
Loc: Lodi, California,
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After PMing poor Charlie back and forth, I thought I'd give his brain a chance to relax and post here asking for everyones assistance. (Thanks Charlie!  )
I am not new to observing, but I know absolutely NOTHING about Astrophotography other than the fact I want to give it a try. But with the myriad of scopes, mounts, cameras, (and I have NO idea what a "Wedge" is or what its function is). I hear terms like "piggybacking", guide scopes (what, I need TWO scopes?!), on and on and on...
I have read and re-read the "Newbie Corner" stuff...and all it did was either confuse matters more, or the articles didn't take into account that many of us are "newbies' with a capital "N" when it comes to learning Astrophotography.
Here is the deal.
I am NEW at this, and would like to learn.
My interest lies in decent "all around" Astrophotography (the more common DSO's such as the Messiers and better known NGC's), and an occasional planet or two.
I would be very interested in opinions on what I need or is suggested based on the following:
Scope & mount: $1,200 budget
Camera: $400-$450 budget
Miscellaneous: $200ish
Hopefully there is hope and help for a full-fledged newbie who is willing and excited to learn this fantastic hobby.
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Orion XTi10 f/4.7
Orion XTi8 f/5.9
Meade NGC 70mm f/10
Orion UltraView 10x50 Wide-Angle Binoculars
My Sketch Gallery
My Astronomy Blog
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top.
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lowdog
member
Reged: 09/15/08
Posts: 16
Loc: N. Suburbs Chicago
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A good place to start is with the book by Ron Wodaski, The New CCD Astronomy.
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Vixen ED80SF
Meade 8" S/N
G11 Mount w/Gemini
Orion SSDSI V2
OAG/Orion ST80/PHD
20x80 Steiner
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Chris_H
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 2859
Loc: Norway
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Start with piggybacking, that means a camera with lens on a tracking platform. Yes I know you want to image through a telescope but piggybacking will help you get the basics down and its WAY easier to get a 50mm lens to track then a telescope 
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Chris
"Big Papa Smurf" (254mm f/4.7 Sky-Watcher Newt)
Custom Orion Optics 150mm f/8 reflektor "Planet Killer" (On its way!!!)
SPC900
Canon Powershot A610 (CHDK modded)
Canon 10D (modded)
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM L
My Website
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tommyhawk13
sage
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 494
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
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Yeah, what Chris said.
Do you have access to a fully manual film camera?
A 35mm film camera attached to an EQ mount can do wonders, and it doesn't break the bank.
Even if you don't want to use film, check out the film astrophotography section in the forums ( the one right below this one). The principles for everything are the same, whether it's a DSLR, a CCD, or a film camera.
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Meade Starfinder 8,Meade SN-8 OTA, Orion Atlas, and a handfull of film cameras
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Doug6952
sage
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 402
Loc: West Milford, NJ
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With your budget I would recomend:
Mount: CG5 goto mount. $600.00
Scope: Several choices here. You could get a 80 mm refractor for about $500-$700. Orion has a couple of reflector scopes that would be good. A 4.5 or 6" would cost about $140 for the 4.5 or $380 for the 6". There are other options (brands and scopes) available as well. If you went with the 4.5" you would have $$$ left over so you could buy an Orion Short tube 80 reflector and auto guider to be used as a guide scope. Or you could take the extra $$ and use it towards the camera.
Camera: A good camera to start with in your price range of $400- 450 might be the Orion Star shoot II. (I have no experience with this camera) This would be for DSO. For planetary you would need a moddified web cam or one of the planetary imagers form Orion, Celestron, Meade, etc....
Misc.: Tube rings for mounting the scope, USB extension cable, a case of Red Bull to keep you up all night.
Just my  I'm sure others will give their recomendations.
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Doug
Sometimes I wonder......."Why is this frisbiee getting bigger" ...... Then it hits me!
Orion EON 72mm
Meade 8" starfinder
Meade ETX 90 OTA
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
DSI Pro III
Orion SSAG
Stellarvue F50
Baader LRGB and Ha filters
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Eddy
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 1202
Loc: Aix-en-Provence, France
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I agree with Lowdog about getting Ron's book. It is very useful and has a lot of info concerning astrophotography.
Just be aware that the most important "item" in a setup is the mount.
So, in your budget, it will be difficult to find something because you are going to need a scope with CCD plus some kind of guidescope with a second camera in order to guide your mount. Unless you opt for a more expensive SBIG camera with an integrated guide CCD.
So your mount will have to be able to support the weight of two scopes and two cameras.
Another option is to start with one scope and CCD on a "low budget" mount and go for unguided imaging. But be aware that it will be very frustrating since you will have to get rid of a big part of your frames due to star trailing and periodic error of your mount.
And the most imortant thing: once hit by the AP virus, you will want more and more and this is a never ending story concerning 
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Cheers,
Eddy
C8 XLT, W.O. ZS80-FD 10th anniv. ed. with MoonLite D/S focuser, Tak TSA102N
Tak EM-200 Temma II, Vixen PortaMount
SXV-H9, SXV guider
SBIG CFW-10 SA filter wheel, Astromik Type2 LRGB and Astronomik 6nm H-α, 13nm SII, 13nm OIII
Taurus Mini Tracker OAG
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/showgallery.php?cat=580
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X-Lurker
Underpaid Slacker
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 617
Loc: N.W. Ark.
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Did you want a strictly AP set up or something that could be used for both visual and imaging? This may not work for you, but how ‘bout considering the Orion Atlas 10 EQ-6 Non GOTO, use a laptop to run EQMOD and PHD. Now that you have a nice sized aperture, your dobs may not be needed and could be used to fund the Atlas and some or all the other goodies needed for the AP side? Just a thought…
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Clear Skies,
Larry
I wasn't sick...I just called in uninterested
Glob
AOAS Member
Atlas 10 EQ-G (Cloud Magnet)
DSIc
SPC 900NC
12X50 Bino's
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1472
Loc: New Mexico
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AP only starts out confusing... then it switches over to expensive.. LOL
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-Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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ClownFish
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/26/05
Posts: 5602
Loc: Islamabad, Pakistan
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What do you have more of.. Patience or Money
CF
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Learn all about POLAR ALIGNMENT with my Drift Method Tutorial and simulator!! Or visit my Foreign Service Blog!
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ChazK
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
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Quote:
AP only starts out confusing... then it switches over to expensive.. LOL
You forgot the immediate detour to frustrating! 
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Tak TOA 130mm/NJP Temma2
Tak FS 60CB
Canon 40D (unmodded)
Astronomik CLS
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6
www.digitalunatic.com
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ChazK
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
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Wade,
I'd look into a small 80mm refractor like an Orion Ed and spend a few more $$ on the mount. At that focal length you can bypass auto guiding in favor of very precise drift alignment. Get yourself a nice DSLR (used bodies are not a bad choice)and have at it. Start off with the moon and go from there. Stay glued to this forum as most of these folks are very knowledgeable. I'd look at the used gear on Astromart first.
CS and above all have fun!...it's the journey or at least that's what I keep telling myself.
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Tak TOA 130mm/NJP Temma2
Tak FS 60CB
Canon 40D (unmodded)
Astronomik CLS
Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6
www.digitalunatic.com
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Qkslvr
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/23/06
Posts: 1054
Loc: NE Ohio, US
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Quote:
Wade,
....
CS and above all have fun!...it's the journey or at least that's what I keep telling myself.
Cause if all you're looking for is pretty pictures, you can find all you want online for free.
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Mike
N8/CG-5/40D
Coming sometime/Maybe FrankenRebel
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DaemonGPF
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 1472
Loc: New Mexico
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It's more fun to drive the car though than to look at a picture of it.
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-Josh
*Orion Starblast Imaging 150mm OTA
*Orion Starblast Imaging 114mm OTA
*Meade 50mm AR short tube OTA
*Meade DSI Pro IIc
*Orion Starshoot DSCI
*CG5 mount
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My Messier Project Gallery
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s58y
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 4861
Loc: Eastern NY
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You mentioned both planetary and DSO imaging. At the very start, you probably need to concentrate on one or the other, because a good starting setup for DSOs is not usually too good for high-resolution planetary imaging.
A good camera for DSOs needs to allow for long exposures with low noise, whereas a good planetary camera needs to take thousands of very short exposures in a few minutes. Usually, you start out with a short focal length for DSOs, but a long one for planets (It's been mentioned that the Hyperstar setup can do both).
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Hutech 30D, SBIG ST-402 autoguider
SV80S, SV66 guidescope
AP900, G-11, Barndoor tracker
http://www.pbase.com/s58y
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WadeVC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 2799
Loc: Lodi, California,
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Quote:
Do you have access to a fully manual film camera?
A 35mm film camera attached to an EQ mount can do wonders, and it doesn't break the bank.
Yes I do. I have a 35mm Pentax K1000 that I use for Wildlife photography, along with the following lenses:
Opteka 500mm/1000mm
Opteka 420-800mm
SMC PENTAX-M 50mm
Sigma 18-50mm
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Orion XTi10 f/4.7
Orion XTi8 f/5.9
Meade NGC 70mm f/10
Orion UltraView 10x50 Wide-Angle Binoculars
My Sketch Gallery
My Astronomy Blog
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top.
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calder
member
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Schuylkill County, PA
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Hi Wade,
as you already have a camera that can be put to use starting your astrophotography, I would agree with what ChazK and Eddy had to say. Read books on astrophotography. Spend your money on getting an adequate mount and a decent refractor to go with it, then piggyback your Pentax on the refractor.
Going this route you will gain experience in polar alignment, manual guiding, exposure times, focusing, and keeping records of what your imaging. These are fundamantals for any kind of astrophotography. By starting with film you can later migrate easily (in terms of equipment) to digital photography using a DSLR.
Always ready to spend someone else's money, I have put together a list of a mount, several refractors and accessories that fall within your $1,650.00 limit. These are good for DSO photography. I chose the CG5-GT mount because I feel it is the minimum mount needed for astrophotography. All the refractors I list below are based on price considerations and not necessarily on quality. Still, you should be able to get decent photos with any of the scopes listed when used for prime focus photography. If you could afford one of the 80mm scopes, that would be preferable to the 70mm scopes.
Mount:
Celestron - CG-5 Computerized Mount with Tripod - $700.00
Refractor Imaging/Guide scopes:(first approx. price listed is the optical tube price, the second approx. price listed is the combined price of the optical tube and CG5 mount together.
Stellarvue - 70ED Refractor Telescope f6 (coming soon) - $400.00 - 1,100.00
William Optics - ZenithStar 70ED Telescope - 70mm f6.1 Doublet OTA -$460.00 - $1,160.00
Orion - 72mm EON ED APO Refractor Telescope f.6 - $500.00 - $1,200.00
Stellarvue - Nighthawk NH7A Aplanat 80mm f/7 Refractor - $450.00 (If you can still find one) - $1,150.00
Stellarvue - Nighthawk NH7UF Aplanat 80mm f/7 Refractor - $500.00 (If you can still find one) - $1,200.00
William Optics - ZenithStar 80mm II ED APO Refractor - $530.00 - $1,230.00
Orion - 80mm EON ED APO Refractor Telescope - $650.00 - $1,350.00
Stellarvue - SV80ED - NightHawk Next Generation 80mm ED Refractor - $700.00 - $1,400.00
Celestron - Onyx 80EDF - 80mm f/6.25 Fluoro-ED Refractor - $700.00 - $1,400.00
Needed accessories for piggyback photography: $250.00 - $300.00
1 1/2" - 2" diagonal
Illuminated Reticle eyepiece for manual guiding
Camera adapter plate/bracket
Shutter cable release
Options for autoguiding piggyback photography:$300.00- $350.00
Orion - StarShoot AutoGuider - $250.00
Camera adapter plate/bracket
Shutter cable release
Computer & cables
Options for autoguiding prime focus (through the scope) photography: $400.00 - $500.00
Orion - StarShoot AutoGuider - $250.00
Orion - 80mm ShortTube Telescope OTA - $120.00
T-adapter (for prime focus photography DSLR/Film)
T-ring for Pentax K (for prime focus film photography)
Plates/rings/rails for mounting 80mm ShortTube scope to imaging scope.
Shutter cable release
Computer & cables
Future inexpensive options for CCD imaging:
Orion - Starshoot Deep Space Imager II Monochrome CCD Camera - $500.00
Orion - Starshoot II Deep Space Color Imager - $500.00
Orion - Starshoot Deep Space Imager II Monochrome CCD Camera/LRGB filter Package - $700.00
So for $1,580 you could get a CG5-GT mount, ZenithStar 80mm II ED, and the needed accessories for piggyback astrophotography using your Pentax K and lenses. For $250.00 more you could also get the Orion starshoot for autoguiding your piggyback images. I would recommend using the autoguider through the refractor when piggybacking your camera with your long fl lenses (your 420-800mm and 1000mm lens might be too heavy and ungainly to use piggybacked on this mount). Of course going the used route will save you more money.
I hope this helps a little, I'm sure there are others here with alternative suggestions.
Clear Skies, Bob
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Meade 295 (dust collector)
B&L Criterion 4000 (grab & go)
Celestron 9.25 CGE (work in progress)
Stellarview 102ED FT focuser (sweet)
Stellarview 70ED (Waiting for first light)
Canon F1
Mamiya 645
Stiletto
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Endosidney
journeyman
Reged: 02/02/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Pensacola, FL
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I can't stress enough how helpful Ron Wodaski's book was for me when I started. It is truly the AP bible. Before you make any decisions, get that book!
When I started, I didn't give much thought to the processing side of AP which is equal to or greater than the hurdle of equipment selection and setup.
The appeal, at least to me, is the challenge and learning.
As stated many times before, in order of importance: MOUNT, MOUNT, MOUNT, scope, camera. Get the very best mount you can for the money.
BTW, seriously, get the book!
Sidney
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TSA 102, EM200, STL11000 XM, Microtouch Autofocuser, RGH and eFinder
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