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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope
      #2758626 - 11/18/08 09:06 PM Attachment (260 downloads)

My Garrent GT100-45 binoscope arrived today.

First impression: Wow! If the thing performs half as good as it looks - very sleek!

Second impression: Not choosing the Oberwerks BT100-45 at 26 pounds was an excellent choice. I can't see how twice the weight could mean the Oberwerks are any more well built.

For the anxious - I've uploaded some photos here:

http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll31/mike54703/GT100

Finish is excellent - glossy white, scratch free.

Focuser work smoothly and the IPD adjusts equally as smooth.

Lens caps are a little loose fitting - one drops off when you pull it out of the case.

Mount point - the 1/4-20 mount hole is not on center for the weight, its behind center so the bino is front heavy.

My plan is to mount these on an Astro Tech Voyager Mount (20# capacity) using the VersaGo L-Bracket from Orion. Things should probably be balanced as close as possible so I think I'll need a plate of sorts to allow the GT100s to be attached behind the slot in the L-bracket. I would have expected these to balance on the mount point.

All metal construction - dew shields included.

I don't have a pair of Oberwerks BT100-45s to do a side by side comparasion - but again, I don't see anything build wise that would make me think these are a light weight knock off in anyway.

More thoughts to come - of course its cloudy here in WI tonight - but then I don't have my mount yet.


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758646 - 11/18/08 09:12 PM Attachment (175 downloads)

The case and case packaging

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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758664 - 11/18/08 09:21 PM

MTB,

Congrats!

Beautiful looking binos.

A 3/8-16 hole with insert for 1/4-20 would be nice. That way those of us with 3/8 mounting plates can use the heavier bolt.

I would be interested in your impression of day time views while you are waiting for a clear night. Especially with the high power EPs.

Please keep the reports coming...

ERik D


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758670 - 11/18/08 09:23 PM Attachment (169 downloads)

Inside the case

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758678 - 11/18/08 09:28 PM Attachment (161 downloads)

These are the rubber rings that are suppose fit around eyepieces that have grooves on their barrels.

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758681 - 11/18/08 09:29 PM Attachment (177 downloads)

Back end of the scope

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758693 - 11/18/08 09:39 PM Attachment (151 downloads)

Another one from the back side.

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758697 - 11/18/08 09:43 PM Attachment (151 downloads)

Front end, dew shields extended.

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758698 - 11/18/08 09:44 PM Attachment (167 downloads)

Underside

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mtb54703
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758701 - 11/18/08 09:45 PM Attachment (143 downloads)

More underside

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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758702 - 11/18/08 09:46 PM Attachment (170 downloads)

Focusers - one in, one out.

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planet-beaver
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Reged: 11/03/08

Loc: Shohola, PA
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758723 - 11/18/08 10:15 PM

Wow, they look great. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Those photos are much better than those at their web site. I can't wait to get mine.

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Wes James
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2758750 - 11/18/08 10:42 PM

Beautiful, BEAUTIFUL bino's! I am MOST impressed! I agree- something that size should have a 3/8" mounting hole. If it were mine, I'd take the mount off (it appears removeable) and drill/tap it out a little larger. Anxious to hear how they perform!

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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2758771 - 11/18/08 10:57 PM

Garrett Optical should get together with the factory to work out a better mounting arrangement. There is enough room on the mounting foot for TWO 1/4-20 thread holes. Having two holes will allow the those using Bogen 501 style QR plate to add a 2nd mounting screw:

http://www.tristatecamera.com/lookat.php?refid=279&sku=BOG3433PL

People using Losmandy style DUP plate can add a 2nd mounting screw easily too. I think very few people would mount a 13.5 lb telescope OTA by using a single 1/4-20 screw.

Attaching two mounting screws will eliminate the possibility of the OTA twisting in a single mounting hole and make the attachment much more secure.

ERik D


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2758879 - 11/19/08 12:26 AM

I didn't take the mounting bracket off, but it appears that it would come off if one undid the screws from the bottom - this would also undo the handle on the top of the scope. The bottom portion could easily be drilled and re-tapped to larger threads.

On the bottom photo you'll see two slows fore and aft of the 1/4-20 theaded hole. If what the bino is being mounted to had matching pins, then that would adequately keep the binos from turning.

A 1/4 inch does seem a bit light for a mounting screw.

I went back and looked at the photos at the Garrett site, the mounting studs on the side of the tubes are not visible on any of those photos. The caps screw off revealing a metric threaded insert - it shallow, maybe 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch and does not open to the scope tubes.

Balance - interstingly enough, the balance point does not even match up with the side mounts. Roughly the balance point appears to be about even with front of the casting that's between the two OTAs.

The 1/4-20 hole is significantly behind the balance point - Hmm....

I can't help but think of my wife's Kitchen Aid mixer when ever I pick this bino up - maybe because its smooth and white!


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2759001 - 11/19/08 05:32 AM

Quote:

Balance - interstingly enough, the balance point does not even match up with the side mounts. Roughly the balance point appears to be about even with front of the casting that's between the two OTAs.

The 1/4-20 hole is significantly behind the balance point - Hmm....




Where's the balance point when the binocular is pointing up at 45°? 60°? 75°?

edz


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: EdZ]
      #2759124 - 11/19/08 08:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Balance - interstingly enough, the balance point does not even match up with the side mounts. Roughly the balance point appears to be about even with front of the casting that's between the two OTAs.

The 1/4-20 hole is significantly behind the balance point - Hmm....




Where's the balance point when the binocular is pointing up at 45°? 60°? 75°?

edz




I was thinking about the balance point thing last night after my last post and edz must have been thinking the same.

When these (or any other scope) are mounted on an AltAz mount, the altitude pivot point ideally should be same as the center of gravity right of the object being mounted? In this situation then altitude angle shouldn't be a factor.

I would think if one could find the balance point along the length of the binos, then the center of gravity would be some distance directly above that - that's the point at which would the altitude pivot point should align with.

So if the binos balance relatively close to the mounting hole, then all one needs to do is adjust the height of the bracket (the bottom plate in the Helix Hercules AltAz mount for example) so that the center of gravity matches the pivot point of the bracket.

Since the mounting hole is behind the balance point, this makes things a bit more difficult. Assuming the altitude pivot point is some distance above the mounting hole (when the scope is level). Then balance would be achieved only at the altitude angle at which the center of gravity is directly over the altitude pivot axis.

Someone jump on me if I'm off base here.

I need some pictures/drawings to illustrate.


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Wes James
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Erik D]
      #2759167 - 11/19/08 09:31 AM

Erik-
The picture you referenced is not a plate intended to use both screws. That plate- and many others like it- simply come with 2 different sized screws- 1/4-20 & 3/8, so you have the option of using one or the other. Note the rubber plug- at one end- intended to allow you to remove the one you're not using.
While, I suppose- you could use two screws, you certainly wouldn't expect to see 2 different sized mounting holes on the bottom of a camera (or bino) to match to those screws in the mounting plate, unless it was to give you the option of 2 different sized mounting bolts. It could be done, but that's not the purpose. If one were to use 2 mounting bolts, they'd be the same size.
Wes


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2759173 - 11/19/08 09:41 AM Attachment (148 downloads)

Drawing to illustrate.

Figure A: Shows an object with the mounting point (blue dot) behind the objects center of gravity (red dot). The only time the object will appear balanced is when object is inclined so that the red dot is over the altitude axis.

Figure B: However, if the mounting point is moved below the center of gravity, and the distance between the mounting point and the altitude axis is adjusted so that the altitude axis now overlaps the center gravity (red + yellow = orange dot), then the object should be balance regardless of the angle.


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Wes James
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2759202 - 11/19/08 10:04 AM

Would like to say, the Hercules type saddle mounts are indeed nice for these types of bino's due to the fact you can adjust the baseplate height to match the distance from the baseplate of the bino to the c/l of the bino. I have my Garrett RA 70's on one of these, a very good combination.
Wes


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Erik D
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Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2759221 - 11/19/08 10:15 AM

Quote:


Since the mounting hole is behind the balance point, this makes things a bit more difficult. Assuming the altitude pivot point is some distance above the mounting hole (when the scope is level). Then balance would be achieved only at the altitude angle at which the center of gravity is directly over the altitude pivot axis.

Someone jump on me if I'm off base here.

I need some pictures/drawings to illustrate.




MTB,


Most people naturally try to balance a scope while the OTA is in the horizontal position. This makes sense if you are using a side mount such as a UA Unistar, Giro 2 , WO Easy mount or Disc mount. The balance point and axis of rotation stays the same for this type of mount as you elevate the OTA. A fluid head mounts the OTA ABOVE the axis of rotation. The center of gravity of the load will shift towards the rear when you tilt the tube up. Since almost no one points an astro bino at the horizon it makes more sense to balance the OTA some where between +30 to + 60 degs. I believe this is what EdZ is thinking.

Art Fritzson discussed this point in his CN review of the 25X100 IF a few years ago. We usually don't think that way but it's quite obvious once someone points it out. Here are his remarks:

____________________________________________

When mounting these, it’s important that you balance them for your own observing tastes. This is the first pair of binoculars I’ve owned with a mounting post and I immediately adjusted the post position so that they were balanced horizontally on the post. This turns out to be a mistake for astronomical use and, I’ve since learned, it’s a mistake that many people make. Anytime the binoculars were elevated to any angle they "wanted" to keep climbing - the Center of Gravity (CG) shifts back with elevation and the imbalance gets greater with increased elevation. There’s no way to avoid this with a traditional tripod setup – the CG is not on the axis of rotation as it is on, say, a Helix Alt-Az mount – but there is a way to minimize its impact on your observing. The binoculars should be mounted on the tripod and then adjusted to balance at an elevation angle that is about halfway through your typical range of use. I have lots of viewing obstacles in my neighborhood so I rarely drop below 30 degrees and I'm often close to 90. I adjusted the position on the post so that it would balance (with no tension on the elevation knob) at about 60 degrees of elevation. That means at horizontal it's inclined to sag toward the ground but it also means that it takes very little effort to control through most of the useful range.

----------------------------------------
You can read Art's full review in the 100mm and larger bino review section.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1425

___________________________________________

I also think many people would want to mount a small red dot finder if they plan to use the GT 100 at 35X+ or with EPs showing less than 2 deg TFOV. Doing so could change the balance point.

Does the balance point of the GT 100 make more sense if you are trying to balance the OTA for + 45 deg?


ERik D


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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Wes James]
      #2759274 - 11/19/08 10:41 AM

Quote:

Erik-
The picture you referenced is not a plate intended to use both screws. That plate- and many others like it- simply come with 2 different sized screws- 1/4-20 & 3/8, so you have the option of using one or the other. Note the rubber plug- at one end- intended to allow you to remove the one you're not using.
While, I suppose- you could use two screws, you certainly wouldn't expect to see 2 different sized mounting holes on the bottom of a camera (or bino) to match to those screws in the mounting plate, unless it was to give you the option of 2 different sized mounting bolts. It could be done, but that's not the purpose. If one were to use 2 mounting bolts, they'd be the same size.
Wes




Wes,

I understand your point perfectly. I made the quick link for the Bogen 501 QR plate because it's the one many people are familiar with and it was easy to find. Just wanted to show that even with a relatively short 501 QR plate there is enough room along the elongated slot to accept two fixing screws. I referenced using two 1/4-20 screws, not a 1/4 and a 3/8 inch in my previous post. However, I believe the Miyauchi Saturin II 71mm bino has both 1/4 and 3/8 mounting holes at the base:

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/m2271.htm


I purchased extra 501PL,501 Plong and 357 PL Quick Release plates for my 501 & 516 fluid heads so I have plenty of fixing screws. Those who need extra Manfrotto QR plates and mounting screws can get them at very reason cost:

http://www.tripodquickrelease.com/Bogen_Quick_Releases.htm


Bogen 357 PL Quick Release

ERik D


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medinabrit
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/27/04

Loc: medina ohio USA.
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Erik D]
      #2759377 - 11/19/08 11:54 AM

You are correct my Saturn 11 has 1/4 & 3/8 mounting threads.
I shall drill & tap another in the GO 100mm also .
I did put another mounting hole ia an Apogee RA-88 i had.
I have the GO IOOmm on a 501 head & have no problems up till now at the steepest angle i can achieve with the 501 with the tension knobs tight.
I think that the Garrett 100mm was originally designed for terrestrial viewing & thats why it has only 1 mounting hole.
Incidently its a great terrestrial scope
Maybe oneday the clouds will go & i will check the sky out.
Had it 4 weeks & no good sky,s
Brian.


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GlenM
Vendor - Lyra Optic


Reged: 05/20/07

Loc: Lancashire England
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2759392 - 11/19/08 12:00 PM

Congratulations on the new binocular. I have the little BT70. Really looking forward to the first light report.

I have my 70 on the Manfrotto 028 and the 503 HDV head. Work's out well for me.


Clear skies for the report.


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planet-beaver
sage


Reged: 11/03/08

Loc: Shohola, PA
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: GlenM]
      #2759470 - 11/19/08 12:41 PM

4 weeks and no clear sky? You are in Ohio not Seattle. I go out even on cloudy days. There is always an opening here and there. OH whether is the same as NY. Usually 2-3 days clouds, 2-3 days sun.

Edited by planet-beaver (11/19/08 12:44 PM)


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planet-beaver
sage


Reged: 11/03/08

Loc: Shohola, PA
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2759477 - 11/19/08 12:45 PM

Never mind. I just checked your location. Talking about *BLEEP* weather.

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Wes James
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Erik D]
      #2759741 - 11/19/08 03:39 PM

Erik-
You know- after thinking about it, I guess my reply was kinda stuffy... one of the things that's fun about all this stuff is modifying and improving things to make them work better, and the idea of using a mounting plate with 2 screws is certainly an example of using something in a different- but better way than it was intended. I pride myself on "thinking outside the box"... appears this time, the lid was closed. My apologies!
Wes


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Wes James]
      #2759776 - 11/19/08 03:55 PM

With this discussion of 1/4" and 3/8" threads to hold a 13# binocular in place, some of our readers might be interested to know that the Orion Paragon tripods have a center post that has a 1/4" thread at the top of the center column, so the entire F12 head on the Paragons is mounted onto a 1/4" thread.

edz


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Erik D]
      #2759782 - 11/19/08 04:01 PM

Quote:

A fluid head mounts the OTA ABOVE the axis of rotation. The center of gravity of the load will shift towards the rear when you tilt the tube up. Since almost no one points an astro bino at the horizon it makes more sense to balance the OTA some where between +30 to + 60 degs. I believe this is what EdZ is thinking.





And it would be my guess that far more people are mounting to a tripod with fluid head than any other type of mount. I have all kinds of mounts including cradle, side arm alt/az and parallelogram, and still I use my tripods with fluid heads more than any, probably more than all the others put together. So from my point of view, if the mounting point is fixed, I'd prefer it behind the center of gravity.

edz


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planet-beaver
sage


Reged: 11/03/08

Loc: Shohola, PA
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2759808 - 11/19/08 04:14 PM

1/4-20 Steel bolt will lift 5730 lb.

3/8-16 will lift 13900 lb.

Edited by planet-beaver (11/19/08 04:15 PM)


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mtb54703
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Reged: 11/12/08

Loc: Eau Claire, WI
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2759817 - 11/19/08 04:18 PM

Quote:

1/4-20 Steel bolt will lift 5730 lb.

3/8-16 will lift 13900 lb.




My wife doesn't weigh that much!


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2759855 - 11/19/08 04:34 PM

Quote:

1/4-20 Steel bolt will lift 5730 lb.

3/8-16 will lift 13900 lb.




that's tension. Steel in tension gives enormous ratings. Thats why they build steel cable hung suspension bridges.

I would say tripod head screws want to be judged by shear. tension and shear are two very different measures and you can guess which is lower.

edz


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Wes James
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2759870 - 11/19/08 04:39 PM

Quote:

I would say tripod head screws want to be judged by shear. tension and shear are two very different measures and you can guess which is lower.




Yep- because you can bend a 1/4" bolt if you stick it in a vice and use a little leverage... and you can't come up with over 5000 lbs of force by hand that easily!
Wes


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Jerry Hyman
sage


Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Wes James]
      #2760024 - 11/19/08 06:09 PM

I would really appreciate it if MTB or anyone else with these binoculars would test it on the moon and Jupiter when they get a chance, and tell us how much CA is present. My wife and I are looking at purchasing this bino, or Kevin's binos (Bigbinoculars) which are also 45 degree 100mm, but has a FR of f6 and uses triplets instead of doublets like this bino. From what I have been told, Kevins binos do control the CA resonably well up to about 60 or 70 power. Anyhow, it would be great to hear from someone who has used these Garretts on bright objects.

In contacting Garrett I was told that they are now out of these binos for now, except for one with some cosmetic blemishes.

~jerry


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Jerry Hyman]
      #2760059 - 11/19/08 06:32 PM

Two questions:

1) What's the rear prism's clear aperture? That would determine the largest true field. Perhaps a photo could be taken looking nearly straight down into the focuser's barrel.

2) How far behind the rear prism does the focal surface lie? This would possibly place a limit on the kinds/focal lengths of usable eyepieces.


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planet-beaver
sage


Reged: 11/03/08

Loc: Shohola, PA
Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #2760211 - 11/19/08 07:54 PM

It would be very difficult to shear the bolt or band it in this application. The only force that could break it is twisting.

I hope they get new shipment soon.


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Mike Conley
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: planet-beaver]
      #2760235 - 11/19/08 08:04 PM

Quote:

4 weeks and no clear sky? You are in Ohio not Seattle. I go out even on cloudy days. There is always an opening here and there. OH whether is the same as NY. Usually 2-3 days clouds, 2-3 days sun.



Congrats on the new Binos. I can't wait to hear how they perform.
I'm in Ohio and it's been nearly two weeks, got out last night for the first time in almost two weeks. East of me and west has been clear, but not here.

Mike


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #2760326 - 11/19/08 08:44 PM Attachment (130 downloads)

Quote:

Two questions:

1) What's the rear prism's clear aperture? That would determine the largest true field. Perhaps a photo could be taken looking nearly straight down into the focuser's barrel.




Looking down the tube... the flash is pretty intense and its picking up a lot reflections of things further down I think.

There's a flat color about 1/8" and a bevel for about another 1/16" = 3/16. So 1.25 - 2 * 3/16" = 7/8" clear aperature or about 22.25mm.

As for the longest eyepiece that would make sense to use - I'd be interested to know at what point I'm be wasting $$$.



Edited by mtb54703 (11/19/08 09:02 PM)


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #2760335 - 11/19/08 08:47 PM Attachment (119 downloads)

Quote:

Two questions:

2) How far behind the rear prism does the focal surface lie? This would possibly place a limit on the kinds/focal lengths of usable eyepieces.




How can this be determined?

One more photo down the tube as well.


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zawijava
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2760423 - 11/19/08 09:46 PM

Just curious why the specs for binoculars aren't more comprehensive, either from the mfg'r or the retailer??? Seems a bit unreasonable that answers to questions such as the one's posed in this thread cannot be had prior to purchase, especially for a $1000 bino(?).

Tim


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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Wes James]
      #2760507 - 11/19/08 10:30 PM

Quote:

Erik-
. I pride myself on "thinking outside the box"... appears this time, the lid was closed. My apologies!
Wes




Wes,

No apologies necessary. I was a mechanical engineer in my previous life. Worked for a firearm company for 3 years right after college. Had access to the resources of a tool room with over 30 skilled tool makers and a model shop with three talented model makers. All of them had longer seniority with the company than I had been alive at that point. Learned a lot from them.... I came up with a few good ideas on my own but some wacky ones as well.

I had a Bushnell 9-30X40mm zoom spotting scope with a table top tripod. I asked one of the model maker help me make a 5 ft offset extension and add a counter wt to the base of the tripod so I can use the scope in off hand shooting. All for a $50 scope. But I also had my first view of Saturn's Ears thru that scope.... ;-))

I have not worked in engineering for over 20 years. These days I don't attempt anything more complicated than what I can do with a power drill, jig saw and a few hand tools. I wouldn't begin to conceive a P mount like the one you built for the SS 20X110. I know my limitations.

ERik D


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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT clear aperture new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2760546 - 11/19/08 10:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Two questions:

2) How far behind the rear prism does the focal surface lie? This would possibly place a limit on the kinds/focal lengths of usable eyepieces.



How can this be determined?

One more photo down the tube as well.




mtb,

You take Very nice photos. Do you use a tripod with you camera or just handheld?

ERik D


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2760558 - 11/19/08 11:03 PM Attachment (150 downloads)

Here's a snapshot of the mount bracket removed from the scope for those interested. It attaches with the two bolts shown. Taking this part off does not affect the handle on the top.

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Rich V.
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2760578 - 11/19/08 11:19 PM

Quote:

As for the longest eyepiece that would make sense to use - I'd be interested to know at what point I'm be wasting $$$.




Your measurement of rear prism aperture is for all practical purposes the same as the Miyauchis that these copy- 22mm.

These eyepieces would provide the maximum FOV available to you:

Supplied 23mm 57° AFOV 2.46° FOV 23mm field stop
TV Plossl 25mm 50° AFOV 2.4° FOV 21.2mm f.s.
Panoptic 19mm 68° AFOV 2.43° FOV 21.3mm f.s.
Nagler 5 16mm 82° AFOV 2.48° FOV 22.1mm f.s.

Rich V


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT clear aperture new [Re: Erik D]
      #2760584 - 11/19/08 11:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Two questions:

2) How far behind the rear prism does the focal surface lie? This would possibly place a limit on the kinds/focal lengths of usable eyepieces.



How can this be determined?

One more photo down the tube as well.




mtb,

You take Very nice photos. Do you use a tripod with you camera or just handheld?

ERik D




Handheld - Canon S2 in macro mode.


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Rich V.]
      #2760592 - 11/19/08 11:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As for the longest eyepiece that would make sense to use - I'd be interested to know at what point I'm be wasting $$$.




Your measurement of rear prism aperture is for all practical purposes the same as the Miyauchis that these copy- 22mm.

These eyepieces would provide the maximum FOV available to you:

Supplied 23mm 57° AFOV 2.46° FOV 23mm field stop
TV Plossl 25mm 50° AFOV 2.4° FOV 21.2mm f.s.
Panoptic 19mm 68° AFOV 2.43° FOV 21.3mm f.s.
Nagler 5 16mm 82° AFOV 2.48° FOV 22.1mm f.s.

Rich V




Great - thanks.

Can you share the formula for calculating the FOV and FS? Its spreadsheet time.

The best I have for eyepieces right now is a set of Meade 4000s (6.4, 9.7, 12.4 15, 20, 25, 32 and 40) all with an AFOV of 52 degress except for the 40mm which is 44 degress.

Since I need a pair of everything, I was looking at some of the Agena Astro, GSO and Orion eyepieces - mostly the ones with the AFOV around 70.


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Rich V.
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2760647 - 11/20/08 12:18 AM

Quote:


Can you share the formula for calculating the FOV and FS? Its spreadsheet time.




I use one of several calculator applets; this one provides quite a bit of info:

Telescope Simulator

TeleVue's eyepiece calculator:

eyepiece calculator

TeleVue specifications page:

TV eyepiece specs

Rich V


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Rich V.]
      #2760816 - 11/20/08 06:39 AM

I'd carefully check that clear aperture if I were you. For example, the Oberwerk BT 100 has no limitations on 1.25" eyepiece field stops. It's prism clear aperture is larger than 30mm.

Your assumption that your plossls are all 52° eyepieces is overstated. The manufacturers stated Afov always includes distortion which adds several degrees to the actual that you get, sort of like usable eye relief. Most plossls are really about 49° usable. For instance your Meade 9.7 has a 7.6mm field stop which actually gives you only 48°. I've had two Meade 4000 26mm, one was 48° and one was 49°. Your Meade 40mm plossl really gives you only 39°. There are no 44° 40mm 1.25" plossls on the market.

If you can actually measure your eyepiece field stop then you can determine what actual Afov you will get, and therefore total degrees of sky you will see. It is eyepiece field stop / eyepiece focal length x 57.3° = actual usable Afov.

If the binocular has a prism field stop of 22mm, you won't be able to use eyepieces with field stops larger than about 23mm without getting very noticable vignette.

FWIW, a 26mm plossl has a 22mm field stop and gives a maximum 49° Afov.

If a 26mm WA 60° eyepiece is truly 60°, it has a 28mm field stop, the maximum fs that can be put in a 1.25" eyepiece. The Meade 5000 26mm has a 27.4mm field stop.

A 30mm plossl (Ultima) has a 26.2mm fs and really gives only 50°.

IF this scope really has a 22mm prism stop, then the maximum TFOV that you will get out of this scope is about 2.5° and that may show mild vignette in the outer few % of fov.

24mm Panoptics, 26mm Meade 5K 60° plossl, 28.7mm RKE, 30mm Ultima and 32mm TV plossls would give different magnifications, but would all give the same TFOV. All of them would be clipped by the prism aperture to a maximum of 2.5°.

Does the Clear Aperture affect the effective total aperture?
AGAIN IF the prism clear aperture is 22mm at the back end, it may be reasonable to assume the prism aperture is also 22mm at the front end. And this plays to the question, Where is the focal point of this system?

Take any eyepiece and look inside the barrel of the eyepiece. See the field stop, in long eyepieces quite often in the chrome sleeve. Measure the distance from the plane of the fs to the shoulder of the eyepiece. Now put the eyepiece in the BT and focus it. The eyepiece inserts tight up to the shoulder, and you know where the eyepiece fs is with relation to the shoulder, so now that it's focused (and in general if the eyepiece is any good, it focuses at the plane of the field stop), you know where the focal point location is inside the eyepiece focuser tube.

The light cone of a 100mm f/5.3 aperture needs to be small enough to pass thru the suspected 22mm front prism aperture. You want to see that the front prism aperture is atleast about 410-420mm behind the objective.

Now you need to get into refractive index of the prism, effective focal length path thru the prisms, and I don't even know the shape of the prisms given it's a 45° binocular, so no sense going any further. At any rate, that would be academic, since there are easier ways to measure effective aperture.


edz


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EdZ
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2760832 - 11/20/08 07:08 AM

what's to stop you from rotating the mounting bracket 180° if you want to move the balance point?

edz


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planet-beaver
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2760856 - 11/20/08 07:44 AM

Thanks for taking all those photos for us. I have to go back to Canon cameras. I gave my Canon PowerShot to my mother and bought Pentax w30 and hate it. I get blurry pictures all the time. I started to read about it and found out that this is very common problem with those waterproof cameras. Your pictures are sharp looking.

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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2760916 - 11/20/08 08:31 AM

Quote:

what's to stop you from rotating the mounting bracket 180° if you want to move the balance point?

edz




If the bracket is reversed, the mounting hole actually moves further back from the center of gravity.

Last night (it was cloudy outside BTW) I set the binos on a 1" wood dowel (dowel at right angle to the optical axis) and rolled the binos back and forth taking note of where the they tipped forward or backward. After several iterations the balance point appears to be approximately 1 7/8" in front of the mounting hole.


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: EdZ]
      #2761250 - 11/20/08 12:13 PM

Quote:

I'd ...

edz




Thanks for explanation - I may not be a kid, but you still taught me something!

I've got some measuring and spread sheet work to do. Since I have a complete set of Meade 4000s, it might just be best to pick another set for now. I was looking at some of the Agena Astro, GSO and Orion 60 to 70 APOV eyepieces, but maybe they're not going to offer all that much more.

Is there a number by which manufactures typically overrate their AFOVs?


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Rich V.
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2761402 - 11/20/08 01:39 PM

Since the binoculars came with a 23x eyepiece pair that gives you max. 2.5° FOV and a 41x pair for mid power you might just want to try another 9.7mm for 55x.

If you feel the bins handle 55x well enough, you could expand your set and buy one more 6.4mm for 83x. I would expect anything over that may be too much magnification. Binoculars get soft faster than telescopes due to their complex optical train.

You can always get some WA eyepiece pairs later after you've tested the waters, so to speak.

Rich V


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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: Rich V.]
      #2761445 - 11/20/08 02:11 PM

2.5 Deg FOV in a BT 100 is pretty good. The widest FOV possible with the Miyauchi Saturn III 100mm F7.5 is only 33X / 2 deg.


I would be interested in the highest magnification possible in this pair also. Both stereo and mono mode. 83X with two eyes should be Very nice for Jupiter and Saturn. Being able to use high quality standard 1.25 inch EPs opens up a lot of possibilities.

Please share you impressions of the GO 100 for day time viewing also. Compared to the 26 lb BT 100 this 13.25 lb pair is a lot easier to set-up and use as twin spotting scopes.

ERik D


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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º BT balance point new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2761481 - 11/20/08 02:41 PM

Quote:

Is there a number by which manufactures typically overrate their AFOVs?





No, not really. It varies with design. The manufacturer hasn't really overstated the Afov. What they have stated is the internal angle spanned with the eye. The difference in stated (52°) and what you can actually see when measuring Tfov (effectively 48° Afov), is the amount of the Afov that is attributable to distortion. Distortion makes the eye span angle wider than the effective angle usable. Distortion provides relief from other aberrations, so it is an important aspect of design. In general, there will be more of a difference in wider angle eyepieces and less of a difference in narrow angle eyepieces.

edz


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Wes James]
      #2761537 - 11/20/08 03:02 PM

What are the prisms in these and the Miyauchi originals? I have misplaced my Tenmon Guide magazine collection, and am also not sure if I saved the issues with the Miyauchi ads or the review articles with cutaway drawings.

Could it be a 2-reflection (silvered) prism for the deviation , followed by Porro II, followed by the IPD rhombs? That would be 8 reflections, and flatness errors accumulate in a non-linear way .


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #2761762 - 11/20/08 04:54 PM

Getting back to the balance for a second - I've been looking over various eyepieces and after seeing the weights on the Baader Hyperion (13+ ounces each) maybe the GO-100/45s design was planning on those being used!!!

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GlennLeDrew
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #2761935 - 11/20/08 06:21 PM

To measure the position of focus, make a kind of focusing screen out of wax paper or some other non-opaque material, with a 'handle' bent at 90 degrees so as to make holding it easy. Aim the bino at a very distant, high-contrast target, such as a street light or, better yet, the Moon. Move the 'screen' in and out until the sharpest image is seen. Then measure the position with respect to the ~1/8" wide shoulder down at the bottom of the barrel (not necessarily the prism face itself, because the thick shoulder's upper surface is effectively the aperture limiter.) You may have to first measure the position with respect to the barrel's upper lip, then do a little subtraction to get the other value.

Don't do this test using a target any nearer than, say, 100 yards, because the focus will then be a bit farther back from the prism. You want to find the focus for a target at or near infinity.


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beachchairbill
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #2762327 - 11/20/08 10:05 PM

MTB,

And now their are three - Brian, MTB and Beachchairbill - My early birthday gift just arrived and yes one of my lens caps fell off as well when I took the Bino out of the case.
Krazy glue to the rescue. Cap rating from 1 to ten - 3 easy on easy off - but not that easy. I had high hopes for using my Meade EXT 90 mount however I would need a new plate etc. Suggestions please Thanks

MTB - great job on the pictures

Brian which mount are you using?

Beachchairbill


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Erik D
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: beachchairbill]
      #2762366 - 11/20/08 10:27 PM

Quote:


Brian which mount are you using?

Beachchairbill





Brian Mount


ERik D


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beachchairbill
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Erik D]
      #2762397 - 11/20/08 10:45 PM

Erik D

Thanks for the quick response

Bill


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medinabrit
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Erik D]
      #2762398 - 11/20/08 10:46 PM

I thought i may need something sturdier but the 501 is working fine for me.
In fact i just got another of AMart.
That makes 3 .
Brian.


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mtb54703
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Wes James]
      #2767444 - 11/24/08 09:57 AM

I received my L-bracket from Orion this weekend which allowed me to get the binos onto the Astro Tech Tripod. The VersaGo bracket is too light for this application (I could detect some twisting) but it did allow me to at least try out the binos in daylight. Wow! I don't have anything to compare them except a cheap pair of 10x50s. I guess that will need to do for now since I need to build a bracket to mount these on the Astro Tech. I think if I can balance these properly the mount will work nicely. I don't have a metal shop but I do have a wood shop - I think some 3/4" hard maple will do the trick. Will post pictures of what I come up with.

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SBrian
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #4081631 - 09/29/10 08:35 PM

Hello I'm looking for a good review on the Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Mk II Binocular Telescope or APM 100 or someone I can get some feed back before I purchase these great looking Binos... I have scoured CN for info but have come to a dead end much like this Thread. Need help!

Thanks
Steve


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Jawaid I. Abbasi
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: SBrian]
      #4081785 - 09/29/10 09:46 PM

Steve,
Here is the Link below:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4041285/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

You may get some good information. Also Contact with Joad and beachchairbill. They have the same binocular and tested in the field as well.


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beachchairbill
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Jawaid I. Abbasi]
      #4082085 - 09/30/10 12:16 AM

Steve, you have come to a dead end because many of the reports on the GBT 100/45 were performed over a year and a half ago and their has not been much after that. If you are looking for positive reports on this binocular, I think their are only two out of eight or nine that have reported on this forum.

If you have any detail questions that you would like to ask me directly, please PM me and I will try to help you out.

Beachchairbill


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ohioalfa64
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: beachchairbill]
      #5493154 - 10/28/12 01:55 PM

Anyone have a change of opinion here on the Garrett 100mm F/5.3 45*?

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GamesForOne
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: SBrian]
      #5494541 - 10/29/12 12:08 PM

Quote:

Hello I'm looking for a good review on the Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Mk II Binocular Telescope or APM 100 or someone I can get some feed back before I purchase these great looking Binos... I have scoured CN for info but have come to a dead end much like this Thread. Need help!

Thanks
Steve




Here is my APM ED100 thread.

Everything I wrote therein is still my opinion (I do still own and enjoy the binos). I will say that the "ED" is likely not any large objective element because the amount of color correction is not in the realm of APO performance. As far as I know there have been no details forthcoming from APM regarding the optical design as to what portion is ED glass.

My opinion is that the sharpness is somewhat better than the average achromat, especially with increasing magnification as it holds up well for me at 52x, but there is certainly some noticeable blue/violet fringing around bright objects.

I am not sure there is any stocking dealer in the USA that sells the APM ED100. I personally would be less than thrilled to order expensive binos that are shipped from the EU to the USA with no USA-based technical support options.

Be careful in the used market for the APMs as the ED100 has a few upgrades over previous iterations of the same bino body, such as compression-ring SCDs for eyepieces instead of the rubber O-rings.

---
Michael Mc


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ohioalfa64
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: GamesForOne]
      #5496144 - 10/30/12 12:58 PM

Our the "Latest" versions of Garrett or Oberwerke or ADM or Orion 100mm/45* bino better than 1 year old or 2 year old versions? Are they significantly enhanced or just marginally? Is the manufacturing quality control universally just "luck of the draw" and some get acceptable binos with other receive colmination nightmares of *BLEEP*-poor assembly?

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Andresin150
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Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: ohioalfa64]
      #5496173 - 10/30/12 01:18 PM

Unfortunately, for experience with three Chinese Miyauchi clones, I have to say that all are different, some better in one aspect that the others, and some worse in one aspect than in others... All have at least one problem, they are never "perfect" (and by perfect I mean according with their design and cost, not expecting more). Those are still expensive, so it is completely unacceptable to me.
The Oberwerks are other thing; they are excellent, good optics, big prisms, built like a tank, but the drawback is their weight.
In fact, a friend wanted to buy one of mine, and then buy some high end oculars and modify them to use them with the 100 bt's, but I convinced him not even that I could have sold it, and instead I convinced him and he ordered a Docter 40x80. With those, there is no luck involved when expecting quality.


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Reged: 11/06/08

Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: Andresin150]
      #5500255 - 11/02/12 12:35 AM

Hi,

When you find good reviews on the GBT that is the time to purchase one.

Also make sure they have a great return policy.

Beachchairbill


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faackanders2
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Garrett® 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope new [Re: mtb54703]
      #5503955 - 11/04/12 01:46 PM

Nice binos! You should really enjoy these! Clear nights to you.

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