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Anonymous
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re:really dumb newbie question new [Re: ]
      #221780 - 10/14/04 10:23 PM

Quote:

I must repeat this old advice. Before buying anything but a good 7X50 binocular, get a good chart and/or star wheel, a good lawn chair, and a red flashlight. Learn the constellations up now and then every month learn some new ones. You must know the sky before you will be able to find anything with any efficiency. Use the binoculars to spot larger, more obvious objects, but eyeballs are still the best viewing instrument for the beginner. How many times has this advice been given?




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dgs©Moderator
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Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13911
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
Re: re:really dumb newbie question new [Re: ]
      #222079 - 10/15/04 10:53 AM

Sound advice Koobs... I did it backwards... I got my 8"Ø SVP and then the binoculars a few months later. It didn't really hurt me, but I do enjoy just looking with the binoculars when I don't have time for the scope. Plus, it is an excellent aid in scouting out targets for the scope.
I still don't recognize all the constellations, but a peek at The Sky on the confuser and I can easily find it in the sky outside. The longer I do this, the more constellations I add to the list of constellations I recognize unaided.

--------------------
- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm



"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike


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Dave Mitsky
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Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 6290
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: erik]
      #253198 - 11/16/04 09:08 AM

Quote:

while larger scopes may be capable of that kind of magnification, most areas aren't going to have good enough conditions to support it. i think beginners often overpower their scopes, which makes objects blurry. with a scope in the 4.5" range, i think planets are best viewed at around 150-200x. even if the conditions allow, 250x will be about the practical limit for a scope that size. stay away from the cheap 60mm department store scopes that advertise 900x, it's a gimmick designed to sell scopes to people who don't know any better....




Erik,

Large apertures are capable of such performance given superb seeing. I've observed Saturn at ~1000x through a 20 inch Dob, NGC 6543 and other planetaries at very high magnifications, M42 at over 600x with a 20 inch classical Cassegrain, and the Moon more than once at over 600x with the Astronomical Society of Harrisburg's 17 inch classical Cassegrain. I routinely view deep-sky objects at magnifications of 259x and sometimes 324x and more with the 17 inch. While attending the Southern Skies Star Party in 2002 and again this year, my friend Tony Donnangelo and I viewed Omega Centauri and 47 Tucanae at over 500x (the highest power we could achieve with the eyepieces we brought) using a 22 inch Starmaster.

A quote rom Richard Clark's great book _Visual Astronomy of the Deep Sky_, "It is normally accepted that the highest power (usefully employed on a telescope) is about 50 to 60 times the objective in inches. This limit is correct only for bright objects ... for fainter objects the eye has less resolution and needs to see things larger, so higher powers are called for. At the limit of the eye's detection ability, the highest useful magnification is on the order of 330 per inch of objective!"

Anyone who has ever done any planetary observing in southern Florida knows what sub-arcsecond means in terms of potential magnification. One year at the WSP I viewed Mars at over 900x.

I qualified my original statement by saying large apertures and when the seeing was excellent. What you said about high magnification and trash telescopes is certainly true, of course, but I wasn't addressing that topic.

Dave Mitsky

--------------------
Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.


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jason_milani
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Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 1450
Loc: Northeast Ohio
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #257200 - 11/19/04 10:15 PM

This is what I would do if I were you (which I am not but here goes anyway) You say you have $1000.00 to spend. You say you want a dobsonian. That's all well and good but let me offer another suggestion: Buy a used Celestron Nexstar 8i from astromart and you will get just about everything you are looking for - Large aperture, crisp views and most of all PORTABILITY! This cannot be overstated. I learned this the hard way. Any scope over 8 inches won't be used as often unless you have a permanent observing site (observatory) The best telescope is the one used most often (anyone here will tell you that) I had a 10" SCT and bought a 5" SCT that I used 10 times as much because of the portability factor. Here is the situation: You look outside at night and realize the sky is clear, and you contemplate setting up the scope. (this may not happen the first couple of times) but you say to yourself "aw....maybe tomorrow night" because of the hassle setting it up. Other options (which are even more portable) are a Nexstar 5i or a Meade ETX 125. Good, crisp views and goto which lets a novice view WAY more objects that a star hopping scope (not to take anything away from star hopping since you should learn the sky). Many people give up the hobby because they can't find anything and get frustrated. This is just my two cents and others may disagree but I feel strongly about this.

--------------------
Antares 1529 6" Refractor
William Optics FLT 110mm LV Refractor
Orion EON 72mm Refractor
Orion Atlas mount with EQ MOD
William Optics EZtouch mount
Mallincam Hyper Color Plus
Celestron Neximage
Canon 350D


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MaritimeSky
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/18/04
Posts: 571
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: jason_milani]
      #259027 - 11/22/04 04:26 AM

First off, as a relative newbie myself who recently went through the process of researching and choosing what I believed to be the best "primer" telescope which would give a good all-around level of optical performance, portability and quick set-up, for a modest entry-level budget (I also was working with $1000 CDN) I must give a hearty "Thank you very much!!" to all the folks here at CN who asked the right questions and to those who provided the invaluable replies to said questions. Again, THANK YOU ALL!!!

That being said, here's what I decided would be the best choice for me, and my reasons for these decisions...

First of all, I wanted enough aperture to show me most of the more visually impressive sights in the sky. The moon, planets, bright nebulae, some of the brighter galaxies, maybe some open clusters and some globulars... and even a comet or two. From all that I'd read it seemed obvious I was looking at a minimum of a 6" newtonian (remember the budget) to adequately reveal these treasures to my eye.

Next, I wanted to ensure that this scope would be portable enough that I could lug it in and out of the house willingly, on very short notice (cuz clear sky doesn't wait for anyone) so it had to be reasonably light and compact. VERY IMPORTANT if your "day-life" requires you to pack up early or if Ol' Man Winter chases you indoors under threat of frostbite (once you stop feeling your fingertips you don't want to have to stay out for another 15 minutes tearing down - you'll have frostbite by then) so tear down and setup time (including ambient cooling of the optics)should be kept to a minimum for a beginner who has yet to actually "fall in love" with their scope to this point. BACK UP SCOPEHUGGERS!!!! Us newbs wanna look through the scope, not AT it...

Ok, next on the list was the ability to "roughly" (or vaguely) align the scope to the target object and keep it in the field of view. Star hopping is a breeze with a dob, but tracking is nudgy and thus limits the usefulness of high power visual observing to whatever limit your manual dexterity (and mount quality) permits without becoming a hassle. Due to my interest in observing planets and smaller DSO's like plantary nebulae and globular clusters I settled on an equatorial mount, for more precise hunting and tracking at higher magnifications.

Oh yeah, BTW did I mention the BUDGET???????

Accessories. Gotta have those. A couple EP's with decent eye relief will make observing the sky more enjoyable than trying to squint through a sleeked up little peephole which requires 100x more cleaning because of this... especially at shorter focal lengths. A good quality barlow lens, star-charts, red light... all of these will make your observing more enjoyable - although really are not immediately necessary to get started out. They're merely beginner's luxuries.

So keeping all those criteria in mind, ESPECIALLY the BUDGET, I settled in the realm of a 6" - 8" newtonian reflector on an EQ mount with a couple additional eyepieces to start out. After conveniently stumbling upon a very favorable review of Orion's SpaceProbe 130ST (with the superior parabolic mirror)... I looked into the 130mm f/5 EQ2 platform across a variety of manufacturers and found a VERY economical starter scope in the SkyWatcher line (actually made by Synta) identical in specs to the SpaceProbe 130ST. It also garnered the same praise for it's high quality optics and solid construction. I believe that the 130mm (5.1") f/5 offerings from Orion, SkyWatcher and the like could in fact be the best VALUE (there's a much underused word around here) in entry-level telescopes. You get far more than what you pay for with these scopes IMO. And with the money you save, those beginner luxuries can easily be purchased without hyperextending your budget or your waiting time to break into this fascinating hobby. Who wants to wait another week, month, year... whatever to save up for that "highly recommended and equally beyond the current budget" telescope which is only going to give you *marginally* better views (to the eye)?? At least if you shop today you can have a better view tomorrow rather than some point in the distant future. Beginners need to get into this hobby. NOW. Get out under the stars now and save up for your "ideal" scope when it coincides with your "ideal" budget. You wanna wait til you go blind????

So anyways, my choice was the SkyWatcher 130 F/5 EQ2 supplemented (for now) with a 2.3mm and an 18mm Celestron X-Cel pair of EP's (to go with the 25mm and 10mm stock plossls) giving me from 26x with a 2 degree true field of view, up to 283x with a 0.2 degree TFOV - a good combination of powers (albeit there are some gaps to fill in the future between 65x and 283x, but a barlow should help there) with vast usefulness.

My choice may not be the best choice for you, but it would be a wise option to consider, especially before you know if you can handle or enjoy staying up all hours of the night feeling somewhat uncomfortably cold, staring at faint fuzzies which resemble the cloud formations we typically associate with rain. Hey, if a 5" won't impress you, neither will a 10" that costs 3-5x as much money. You wouldn't buy a Porsche 911 for your teenager to learn to drive in, right? Easy on the gas till you "get it" I say. Spend less and get more.

I apologize for the length of this post... truth be told it's actually a credit to all of you here at CN who have helped me learn enough to have something to say. Thanks again! Hope this rambling proves equally as helpful.


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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
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Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11652
Loc: Denham Springs, LA
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: MaritimeSky]
      #259075 - 11/22/04 08:54 AM

Congratulations, MaritimeSky! You certainly put a lot of thought into what you wanted to view & which scope was best for your needs. Your post is very inspiring to somebody who wants to buy their first telescope. I wish you many clear nights with your new SkyWatcher!

--------------------



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MaritimeSky
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/18/04
Posts: 571
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #259306 - 11/22/04 12:54 PM

Thanks Bill, it was the least I could add... this place has a way of being very inspiring - and informative, so who am I to buck the trend? Gotta start giving some back

--------------------
Jamie D.

Antares 8" F/6 Dobsonian
Skywatcher 130mm F/5 EQ2
Antares 90mm F/5.5 achro AZ1
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70
Vortex Stokes Talon 8x42
Bushnell Legend 8x26


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: ]
      #279799 - 12/13/04 12:47 AM

As a newbe myself, I have not touched a scope in years and never a great one. Telescopes are one of those things that are just down right neat, but they take up a lot of space in the house most of the time not used. I am just now making my list for a new scope and accessories and what brought the desire back for me was GoTo technology. It used to drive me crazy trying to line up on a star and after that chase ends, you have to keep tuning those knobs to stay on it. The other thing is, if it's not a powerful scope, it's just a lot of dots, so you’re stuck with planets and the moon. Once you have taken those in for a while, your left with just dots of light to look at. My old 6 inch taco or whatever has been in a box for years. I would not waste my time getting anything less than the cheapest GoTo scope I could find, used even. Save for accessories later if need be. If the love for the hobby comes, then invest in the eye pieces you want and then it will just make it better and a great passion might be born.
This old planet is turning so fast that when you tell someone to take a look, by the time they step up to the eye piece, that baby is gone! And the dance starts all over. It's not fun, and can get down right frustrating. If you want to plant the seed of a great hobby and intellectual pursuit, make it fun first! If it's for the big people, then maybe they can deal with it but I could not. As a hobby, viewing time is precious.


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Skymaxi
sage


Reged: 11/01/04
Posts: 228
Loc: Lincoln,UK
Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep new [Re: ]
      #279841 - 12/13/04 02:26 AM

before anyone else gets here get a Meade ETX-90 GO-TO scope because the others will say get a cellestron nexstar or an orion XT-i scope, just that everyone seems to be not talking about meade anymore, i mean the Premium Edition of etx is out soon automatically aligns it self it costs more but hey.

Skymaxi

--------------------
Lawrence from England,
Lincoln.
Scope: LX-90GPS 8",
Meade DSI, stand IR Filter.
Dell XPS M170
Member of the BAA http://www.britastro.org


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: This newbie is a bit confused about the concep [Re: ]
      #280771 - 12/13/04 11:51 PM

Jean,

If you are still interested in one of the intelliscopes from Orion, both Sky and Telescope and Astronomy Magazine have run recent reviews on this line of scopes. I am considering getting one for the wife.


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