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Equipment Discussions >> Observatories

Pages: 1
JAT Observatory
NOT a Wimp
*****

Reged: 02/20/05

Loc: In the Primordial Soup
Cold weather issues new
      #2818988 - 12/22/08 08:24 AM

It has been overcast for a while in the northeast, but last night the sky was clear. So I decided it was time to run some tests on my system using CCDAutoPilot (I'll post a mini review on that later).

When I started up the dome it was about 29 degrees. I watched some of the CCDAP runs while I was watching the football game last night (Go Giants!). The wind was gusting as high as 25 mph, but the dome kept the telescope stable, no shaking. So off to bed I went.

By morning the outside temp had dropped and the temp inside the obs was 13 degrees! The first thing I noticed was the dome's shutters were still open! I figured the software never executed the shutdown procedure. Not the case, between the cold and the lack of sunlight on the dome's small solar panel over the past few days the battery voltage had dropped below 10 volts, so there wasn't enough voltage to close the shutter. (Shame on me for not checking the voltage before I opened the shutters).

I decided I would just just go out to the obs and connect up the jumper cable from one of the power supplies to the battery that powers the shutters. I had even put in a 12 volt outlet just in case of such an issue.

The only problem was I haven't counted on the lock on the obs door being frozen shut! The original plan was to get a hairdryer to warm up the lock, but since it was 14 degrees I really didn't feel like messing around out there. I also didn't want to break the key off in the lock either. My solution to the issue was to go back inside the house and power up the dome's rotation motor. The solar panel that recharges the battery shutter battery is mounted on the backside of the dome. I slewed the dome so the solar panel is facing the morning sun in an attempt the charge up the battery a bit quicker. To make sure the panel has the best angle to the sun I configured the software so the backside of the dome will follow the sun.

We'll see how long it takes to build up enough power to close the dome. Luckily it is not raining so there is no hurry.

I hate the cold!


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rodney
Vendor - Explora Dome
*****

Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Asbury, NJ
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #2818992 - 12/22/08 08:31 AM

Marcus,
I feel your pain about the solar panels and the weather. I had a lovely layer of ice and snow on the dome yesterday that took some time to get loose. It finally opened. My biggest problem is my door is on the North side of the building ( I know the worse place ) and it took a few minutes to get it cleared out enough to get in. My shutters are 12 volt also, but are backed up with 110 volt maintainers so in case a situation like yours ocurs I am not in a pinch. I also noticed it was very cloudy around midnight. And at 14 degrees it would have been snow. FWIW, 8 degrees is what it got down to hear last night. BRRRRR. love working from inside.

Clear skies,
Rodney


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JAT Observatory
NOT a Wimp
*****

Reged: 02/20/05

Loc: In the Primordial Soup
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: rodney]
      #2819007 - 12/22/08 08:43 AM

Rodney,
I am now thinking about connecting one of the those water pipe heaters to the inside of the door knob for the winter.

I am also giving serious consideration to installing a set of contacts that will allow aux 12vdc power to be applied to the shutters when the dome is parked.

The frozen door really threw me for a loop.


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soreneck
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/01/06

Loc: Toronto, Canada
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #2819187 - 12/22/08 10:33 AM

I've got a low-cost trick for keeping door locks functioning smoothly even in very cold temperatures.

I usually spray (not too much) graphite lubricant in the lock cylinder, followed by (again, not too much) white lithium grease. If possible, buy each in the aerosol can format and use the thin nozzle extension, as it's easier to apply. The white lithium grease keeps the graphite from seeping out.

I also put a thin coating of the white lithium grease around the deadbolt assembly.

In cases where I expect an ice storm / freezing rain, I've even wrapped a plastic bag around the doorhandle, securing it with an elastic band.

Cheers,
Adam


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JAT Observatory
NOT a Wimp
*****

Reged: 02/20/05

Loc: In the Primordial Soup
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: soreneck]
      #2819200 - 12/22/08 10:39 AM

Adam,
I treated the lock earlier in the year, but I guess I didn't do a good enough job.

I just got the lower shutter closed a few mins ago. I'll let the battery build up more of a charge before I try to close the top.


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JAT Observatory
NOT a Wimp
*****

Reged: 02/20/05

Loc: In the Primordial Soup
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #2819367 - 12/22/08 12:25 PM

Ok I finally gave in and took a hairdryer to the door lock. Amazing what a little heat will do.

I connected the small dome battery to the large solar panel output so the battery should be charged by the end of the day.

I also disabled the dome rotation in case I forget the cable to the battery is connected.


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stars_in_my_eyes
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/24/08

Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: JAT Observatory]
      #2819737 - 12/22/08 03:17 PM

Quote:

It has been overcast for a while in the northeast, but last night the sky was clear. So I decided it was time to run some tests on my system using CCDAutoPilot (I'll post a mini review on that later).

When I started up the dome it was about 29 degrees. I watched some of the CCDAP runs while I was watching the football game last night (Go Giants!). The wind was gusting as high as 25 mph, but the dome kept the telescope stable, no shaking. So off to bed I went.

By morning the outside temp had dropped and the temp inside the obs was 13 degrees! The first thing I noticed was the dome's shutters were still open! I figured the software never executed the shutdown procedure. Not the case, between the cold and the lack of sunlight on the dome's small solar panel over the past few days the battery voltage had dropped below 10 volts, so there wasn't enough voltage to close the shutter. (Shame on me for not checking the voltage before I opened the shutters).

I decided I would just just go out to the obs and connect up the jumper cable from one of the power supplies to the battery that powers the shutters. I had even put in a 12 volt outlet just in case of such an issue.

The only problem was I haven't counted on the lock on the obs door being frozen shut! The original plan was to get a hairdryer to warm up the lock, but since it was 14 degrees I really didn't feel like messing around out there. I also didn't want to break the key off in the lock either. My solution to the issue was to go back inside the house and power up the dome's rotation motor. The solar panel that recharges the battery shutter battery is mounted on the backside of the dome. I slewed the dome so the solar panel is facing the morning sun in an attempt the charge up the battery a bit quicker. To make sure the panel has the best angle to the sun I configured the software so the backside of the dome will follow the sun.

We'll see how long it takes to build up enough power to close the dome. Luckily it is not raining so there is no hurry.

I hate the cold!




Thanks for starting this discussion...it will be an interesting one.

I have often wondered how automated observatories fare in colder weather.

And I have considered that your observatory is one of the best amateur automated ones that I am aware of.

And considering that currently many northern observers are seeing temperatures in the -0 regions, the effect of cold on automation is a timely one.

How cold as it gotten in the past while you can still run your observatory?


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csa/montanaModerator
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Cold weather issues new [Re: soreneck]
      #2819841 - 12/22/08 04:09 PM Attachment (47 downloads)

Quote:

I've got a low-cost trick for keeping door locks functioning smoothly even in very cold temperatures.

I usually spray (not too much) graphite lubricant in the lock cylinder, followed by (again, not too much) white lithium grease. If possible, buy each in the aerosol can format and use the thin nozzle extension, as it's easier to apply. The white lithium grease keeps the graphite from seeping out.

I also put a thin coating of the white lithium grease around the deadbolt assembly.

In cases where I expect an ice storm / freezing rain, I've even wrapped a plastic bag around the doorhandle, securing it with an elastic band.

Cheers,
Adam




Adam, thanks for the very timely tips for doors to our Observatories; it's something I will definitely do to mine; especially the ziplock around the doorknob.

I've sprayed silicone spray in the lock before, don't know whether this is a good idea, or not?


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JAT Observatory
NOT a Wimp
*****

Reged: 02/20/05

Loc: In the Primordial Soup
Re: Cold weather issues [Re: stars_in_my_eyes]
      #2819956 - 12/22/08 05:00 PM

Quote:


I have often wondered how automated observatories fare in colder weather.

And I have considered that your observatory is one of the best amateur automated ones that I am aware of.

And considering that currently many northern observers are seeing temperatures in the -0 regions, the effect of cold on automation is a timely one.

How cold as it gotten in the past while you can still run your observatory?




Thanks for the compliment.

The lowest temp I have operated it in was about 0 degrees F.

The battery for the shutters is currently my weak link. They always have been to some degree. I have installed a higher capacity solar panel but it is still under sized. It needs to sized so the battery is still charged when it is over cast.

The reason the battery is not fully charged when it is cloudy is the RF receiver/switch that drives the shutter motors. When the weather gets very cloudy or it rains, the remote mounted cloud sensor sends a wireless signal via a closure circuit to the receiver in the dome to close the shutters. That signal is sent every 3 seconds. The cloud sensor doesn't know (or care) if the observatory is in operation or not. The receiver is always on and it draws more power whenever it receives a signal since it then closes the contact to operate the motors. The motors don't actually move as a limit switch prevents that when they are closed.

Normally when I know there is going to be a stretch of 4 or 5 rainy or cloudy days, I will disable the auto close circuity at the wireless interface in the house. The disconnection is done via a switch that resides behind the weather station computer. Even though the physical switch is disconnected, programs like CCDAutoPilot and ACP will read the remote Boltwood sensor output file and still close the shutters if they are open and the observatory is under control of either of them.

The real failure in this case came because I didn't follow my own procedures. Normally before I begin a session I check all the voltages of the power supplies and batteries. All of the equipment that is stationary (below the dome)is monitored by the data logger. But the since the shutter batter rotates with the dome I have to check that manually looking. That is done via the camera that is mounted on the telescope. The dome is always parked so the volt meters are visible, but I didn;t look at them. If I have I would have seen the voltage was low and I would have opened to dome. Yet again I have proved my system is not idiot proof.


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