buckeye_hunter
super member
   
Reged: 12/07/08
Loc: Ohio
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Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
#2930208 - 02/15/09 11:18 PM
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I have been scratching my head for the last couple weeks about what I want to do for a mount for my SV102DN. I currently have a very nice Vixen Super Polaris, but I would like to find something that is compatible with SkyCommander or other DSC.
It is difficult to find much info on the M6. What I like about it is the capabilty to mount 2 'scopes. Stellarvue site says each 'scope can weigh up to 25 lbs. Almost enough to mount my 10" SCT OTA (about 30 lbs) with my refractor. That would be ideal...Partnering the wide field of the refractor with the magnification of the SCT.
The Half Hitch and DM both seem to be wonderfully engineered. I really like the way the Half Hitch elevates the 'scope. There are enough reviews and posts about these that I am sure either would be great for me. I can't justify buying a new DM though, and they do not come up for sale too often.
The clearance that Half Hitch is running on the remaining preproduction and Mark II mounts is inviting.
I have never touched or viewed firsthand any of these mounts. I also do not have experience with DSC. Is SkyCommander the way to go? Am I missing something?
One more thing that plays on my mind are the load capacities of the Half Hitch and DM. While I have no present intentions of catching aperature fever, what if I do get inflicted? Would I have to find a new mount?
All opinions appreciated.
Clear Skies and Peace Out!
Bob Hart
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ottovonrotton
super member
   
Reged: 01/01/09
Loc: Where is Port Perry?
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: buckeye_hunter]
#2930526 - 02/16/09 07:57 AM Attachment (69 downloads)
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Hello all, I have a Stellarvue M6 setup for about 2 years now ( I get out about 5 times a year to ob.). I love the mount but it drives me nuts for astrophoto. It definitly can handle weight. I load a 127/1200mm refractor on one side (30lbs) and a 80ED (20lbs) on the other and I have had a 10" dob (30lbs) on it with the 127. The mount has been replaced now with the M7 and they seem to relocated the knobs. It appears to be the same. You could also look at giro alot of people use them as well.
OttoVonRotton
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Tamiji Homma
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 02/24/07
Loc: California, USA
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: buckeye_hunter]
#2930837 - 02/16/09 11:22 AM
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Hi Bob,
I have both Half Hitch and DM-6. DM-6/SkyCommander for WO FLT152 f/8 and Vixen VMC260L, Half Hitch/SkyCommander for TSA-102S.
They work as advertised. SkyCommander is very easy to use.
If your OTA is long, Half Hitch elevation may not be enough without extender to use comfortably at zenith as well as it is hard to reach Az/Alt control. You need longer arm 
The same goes to DM-6. 18 inch Handle is too short. I need more like 24 inch handle to use comfortably.
Here is Half Hitch setup. I am still working on it, I've been talking to Charles at HalfHitch to make it better. Oberwerk Surveyor Tripod, DM-4 extension + Half Hitch + TSA102S:
WO EzTouch tripod + Half Hitch + TSA-102S: 
G11 Tripod + DM-6 extension + DM-6 + Vixen VMC260L:
G11 tripod + DM-6 extension + DM-6 + FLT 152:
G11 FHD Tripod + DM-6 extension + DM-6 + TSA-102S:

Good luck in mount hunting.
Tammy
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SteveC
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Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Tamiji Homma]
#2930929 - 02/16/09 12:13 PM
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Hi Tammy,
I know little about the Half Hitch, but why would you need a handle for the DM6?
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Tamiji Homma
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 02/24/07
Loc: California, USA
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: SteveC]
#2930995 - 02/16/09 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Hi Tammy,
I know little about the Half Hitch, but why would you need a handle for the DM6?
Hi Steve,
I just don't like to touch OTA to move 
The handle is just too short for me. Tom Peters told me that he can make longer one but I haven't placed an order yet.
Tammy
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Tamiji Homma]
#2931085 - 02/16/09 01:25 PM
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I own a HH pre-production mount and a HH II with DSC's and SkyCommander. I owned and sold my DM-6, which also was equipped with DSC's and the Sky Commander.
The DM-6 is a wonderful mount and I sold it only because it was quite heavy, and although it could handle a scope as large as my TOA130 or 140EDF (with the right set of legs) I pretty much decided that - given the weight and size of these scopes plus the DM6 - I might as well just use a GEM. Once that decision was made, the DM-6 was just overkill for my remaining scopes (i.e., a 105 and smaller).
The DM-4 is the obvious choice for the 105 but at that point I just wanted to try something different and the HH caught my eye. I purchased a pre-pro version at a great price with the reason being that I could see it up close and field test it. I now use it routinely for my SV50 (50mm) Solarscope and with a TV76. The 105 was a bit much for the pre-pro mount but that is what I was told by Charles from the beginning. It is the very essence of what grab and go should be, and mated to a set of Gitzo CF (GT2530 in this case), it is ideal for this purpose with my smaller refractors.
I was quite impressed with the pre-pro mount and so I decided to purchase the higher capacity HH II for the 105mm - plus I wanted the DSCs. It is a wonderful mount from a variety of standpoints. What I really like about HH mounts - other design features aside - are the "slo mo" (not really slo-mo) controls. I know and appreciate the arguments that you don't need xy controls with a Discmounts and while "true", I prefer them, plain and simple but that is a personal preference and YMMV. The HH II easily handles my Traveler. The damping characteristics are excellent and the mount is highly rigid and solid - a lot of thought has gone into the design.
I have had no trouble viewing at Zenith with the 105EDF and HH II. My favorite legs for this mount is the Gitzo 5530s (or Berlebach UNI24 if weight is not an issue). The DSC's and SkyCommander in both the DM and HH work great. Having owned both types of mount I would say that the DM is probably the simpler to set-up and balance but not by much - and after you've got either set to your liking you are pretty much done.
Some may not like the "look" but the HH II is just a beautiful piece of machining and the tolerances are most impressive - they would have to be given the accuracy and rigidity (and most importantly - orthogonality for DSCs) of the HH II, the DM manages the same with those big bearing surfaces and the 2 axes very close together (beautifully simple design). I'm no machinist but after looking at and using a HH, I really have to ask myself how it can be made for what Charles charges. Yes, I know it is expensive but from a materials, machining and assembly standpoint - I don't have any problems justifying its worth.
Both mounts are "backlash" free, the DM by its very design and the HH by its tight tolerances and "Crayford-like" bearing surfaces. They are both great mounts and either DM-4 or HH II would be a nice match for your scope. The Lapides Modified Tak Teegul is also a very nice mount but DSCs are tougher to deal with and probably aren't going to be as accurate as on the DM or HH.
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SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Tamiji Homma]
#2931615 - 02/16/09 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi Tammy,
I know little about the Half Hitch, but why would you need a handle for the DM6?
Hi Steve,
I just don't like to touch OTA to move 
Tammy
Well then, you don't want me around your scopes. I'm the touchy feelly type.
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Waduino
sage
Reged: 10/24/08
Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932242 - 02/17/09 12:11 AM
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I'm wondering what would be the best alt-az mount for my TV85. I have a Porta on wooden legs, but it's still too jiggly for my liking. On the HH, how do you reach the slo mo controls? In my mind it seems awkward and without an obvious way to extend the knob/handle. The DM-4 seems more than fine, but I do like slo-mo controls. I've read very good comments about the Lapides-Teegul and seen slo-mo control knob extensions that look fine although you would turn them both with the same hand. Thanks. Wad.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Waduino]
#2932499 - 02/17/09 07:44 AM Attachment (67 downloads)
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Hi Wad,
Those are good points and questions. The HH II controls are quite close and don't extend far from mount, that is true. But they are comfortable to use nonetheless. I can actually rest my hand on the base of the mount and turn the az control even at high mags without much vibration (I track at high mag!). I believe Charles has talked about ways to extend (but I don't feel there is a need for me to extend the knobs - they are well placed as is). The HH Yahoo group has some photos files and a fair amount of discussion about this. I'll also attach some photos for you to give you an idea of control placement
The Teegul with extended knobs (from FocusKnobs.com) is also very comfortable and steady - it is not without backlash but this would be an important consideration for a focuser but not a slo-mo control IMHO. I'll see if I can find a photo of those as well. Unlike the HH, I do feel that the knobs on the Teegul benefit from extension and I use the 6" (I think) replacement knobs.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932500 - 02/17/09 07:45 AM Attachment (67 downloads)
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and another with scope attached to show placement of alt knob...
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932501 - 02/17/09 07:46 AM Attachment (60 downloads)
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side view ....
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932505 - 02/17/09 07:48 AM Attachment (47 downloads)
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close-up Az knob and tensioner... note contact point of vertical control rod with base plate Az disk and Crayford-like bearing surface. Very tight tolerances.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932509 - 02/17/09 07:50 AM Attachment (55 downloads)
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close-up of base, Az knob at back, bubble level and Az encoder box cover at right - note cable management and quality attention to detail, should give you a good idea overall. Industrial art, IMHO.. and its not a bad mount either, LOL.....!
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932527 - 02/17/09 08:06 AM Attachment (63 downloads)
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Still trying to locate a photo of the 105 on the Teegul with the replacement knobs but in meantime - here is the diminutive SV50 with BVs on the mount with stock knobs, complete overkill.... But tensioner mechanism works so well that it can handle a so obviously back-weighted but lightweight scope (imbalanced) with ease.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932623 - 02/17/09 09:34 AM Attachment (63 downloads)
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While we're at it, here is a photo of my since departed DM-6 and TOA 130, aka "the beast". The mount handled the beast just fine but the DM legs (which are otherwise great performers on slightly less beastly scopes) weren't optimal. But a Berleback UNI24 fixed that....
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932638 - 02/17/09 09:44 AM Attachment (67 downloads)
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...and my since departed NP101 on the DM-6, with Mk V BVs (w/Pan 24s = heavy). While I'm sure a DM-4 could (and does) handle an NP101, in many ways I think this was a perfect mating. Am I feeling a tinge of remorse...?? you betcha
Hopefully these photos will give you folks an idea of relative scale and mounting options - still can't find the photos of the 105 on the Tak with the extended knobs. If I do locate I'll post if anyone is interested.
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Waduino
sage
Reged: 10/24/08
Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2932765 - 02/17/09 11:00 AM
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Great photos! I don't want to highjack the thread. I like the HH but form has to follow function, so I'll check out the Yahoo! group and see what people say about slo-mo knob placement and reach. Also, since the Lap-Teegul is somewhat less expensive and available used from time to time, I wonder if that is a more cost effective choice if one is not going with DSCs. The Teegul design though leaves me wondering about tripod clearance at high angles (but the OP didn't ask about the Teegul). Wad.
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Tamiji Homma
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 02/24/07
Loc: California, USA
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Waduino]
#2932956 - 02/17/09 12:44 PM
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Quote:
On the HH, how do you reach the slo mo controls? In my mind it seems awkward and without an obvious way to extend the knob/handle.
Hi Waduino,
Charles at Half Hitch emailed me last night about "need longer arm" problem. He is reading CN 
He said
Quote:
There will be new motion control knobs that include clutched hubs into which you can insert extensions made from 1/8-inch hardwood dowel. You will be able to bring the motion controls near the focuser knob or wherever you find the most convenient location. A simple flick of the wrist will reset the travel. When not needed, simply pull out the dowels.
So he is working on solution.
With the setup that I use for planetary observation, to reach AZ knob, I need 31 inches, 28 inches for ALT knob. When I have winter clothes on, I am touching the binoviewer when I try to reach AZ/ALT knobs. So the new control knob improvement is welcome for me.
It is very nice to be able to directly and promptly communicate with man/woman behind the product about issues.

Tammy
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Tamiji Homma]
#2933111 - 02/17/09 02:03 PM
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Wow Tammy - usually it is not having enough "in focus" for a BV that is a problem... Why do you need so much extension? I have pretty much the same set-up (Mark Vs, ZAO IIs & prism diagonal) but with a 105EDF.
I agree with you about being able to talk with the designer/manufacturer of your mount. In my experience both Charles at HH and Tom P. at DM are great to deal with.
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SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 06/15/06
Loc: The Garden State & Ocean State
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Re: Half Hitch v. Stellarvue M6 v. DM
[Re: Doug D.]
#2933346 - 02/17/09 04:10 PM
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for taking the time to post the HH photos. It looks like an excellent mount. I hope they attend NEAF again this year, so that I can check it out.
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