Demorcan
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/05/04
Posts: 517
Loc: Central Illinois
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The best study I know was done by the military. During Desert Storm, the recon troops in Iraq who set the lasers each night (for the earlier version smart bombs) had some help with their night vision. Walking the streets at night in an enemy capital precluded the use of AVN7 goggles. Their was training and perhaps some chemical aids to help them since they had to operate in the dark. While it did not always help them to seperate enemy patrols from other people doing advance recon, they did get the job done. So, it worked to some degree. I am not sure at this time how to find this study. If you know somoeone who has done recon, perhaps they could point you in the right direction.
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Wayne
80 mm refractor to 8" newt
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RON
member
Reged: 03/07/06
Posts: 11
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nice 1 wayne good read
tips for wide f.o.v
nexstar 8i se
helos 10x50
.. .. 20x40x 100
tv 16mm
meade40mm
.. ..26mm
vixen 13mm
 new uk ron
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jaxter
member
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 88
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Good discussions here about the ocular constraints....my only addition would be to mention that many sites are perenially tough for observation. Living within a dozen miles of Chicago gives my eastern sky a useless haze at all times (filters don't help much) and a regional challenge (ie mostly passable-at-best atmo conditions and a winter sky that demands cooling the scope). However...by tracking various objects year-round, I can find them fast when I DO get a chance to camp out under clearer skies. The best trained eyes will suffer at sea level w/a 12"- astounding views can be had on a small elevation with a 5", depending on the site. Moreso, as mentioned, for DSO's than bright planets. Red flashlights...that's the best advice I can offer to newb's.
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8"LX90LNT-UHTC/wedge (main scope, 'easily' carried)
APO66 w/Losmandy tail on LX90
Homemade Cass scope (20" or therabouts...)
LPI/DSI/Nikon D50/binocs/lenses, barlows, reducers, filters (o3, Ha, etc)
Slow-spinning 3m mercury mirror on order.
12" LightBridge dlux/replaced secondary (bad coatings!)
Seeking an 18-22" f/5-6 mirror. Wish me luck.
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Amoreau13
member
Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 15
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Help!
I have had my 8" orion Dob for about 6 months now. I try and go out as often as I can, but I've probably used it about 10 times so far. My problem is that all I can find in the scope are "big" things. Obviously I have seen the moon, Mars, Saturn, some naked eye stars and the Orion Nebula. Other than that I cannot seem to find anything interesting. I have a star chart that I try to use to find other DSO's. I look at the chart and see that M51 is below the last star in the Big Dipper. Okay well how far below? And how far to the left or right? Is there an easier way? I kind of feel like I should've purchased an auto goto telescope because I'm getting discouraged. You can only look at Saturn for so long!
I live in a suburban area with fairly dark skies. I use a light pollution filter a lot of the time.
Any help would be appreciated!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I have found that printing star charts (I use Starry Nights) to get the "correct" orientation of the constellations helps dramatically with locating the not-so-easy DSOs.
I printed charts last week (on the first clear night in 6-weeks) and was able to nab several DSOs around the Big Dipper using my 10" Dob. It was challenging, but the star chart (with proper orientation) help a whole bunch!
I think that Cartes du Ciel (FREE) will print similar charts.
Try it! You'll like it! 
Don
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13915
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Amoreau13, you are an ideal candidate for a Telrad finder.
Here is a copy of my standard spiel on the subject:
If you are unfamiliar with the Telrad, it projects 3 circles (4°, 2°, & ½°) onto a piece of glass angled at 45° to the tube axis (like a Heads-Up Device), and you can adjust the brightness to suit dim stars. The calibrated circles aid in measuring angular distances from brighter 'guide' stars to the object you are trying to find.
Check out these Telrad Charts for Messier Objects to see what it looks like looks like plotted on star charts and how useful it can be. I printed all of the charts, slipped them into plastic sleeves and put them in a ring binder to take outdoors. Just match the view in real life with the view on the charts, and you are there. 
Also see this Reflex Finder Shootout for a comparison of 9 of the most popular of these type finders.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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jaxter
member
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 88
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Amoreau13- take off that filter, first. Do you have a finderscope? If not, get a small one and get it centered with your scope at lo power. Should make finding fuzzies a lot easier; just center where it ought to be in the finder then check the scope at lowest power. Any cluster is always fun in my book.....I prefer them to planets or fuzzies (ie nebulea or galaxies). Double Cluster, Beehive and Pleiades are always interesting. Just keeping the forum rolling, hoping you indeed get to 'see more'. What you/others will see naked-eye or in the finder will pale with even your lowest power on these examples. Fuzzies are for big scopes....sorry...anything under 10" and you'll be disappointed. You can 'detect' fuzzies w/a 8".....hopefully you can find them, get familiar w/where they are. There is no substitute for size. And don't forget to collimate.......faint objects suffer the most when things are out-of-align. Above all, don't give up. You are, to quote an Astronomy prof of mine, that one in a thousand people living who ever even looked thru a scope. You own one; learn more and share it as much as you can.......
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8"LX90LNT-UHTC/wedge (main scope, 'easily' carried)
APO66 w/Losmandy tail on LX90
Homemade Cass scope (20" or therabouts...)
LPI/DSI/Nikon D50/binocs/lenses, barlows, reducers, filters (o3, Ha, etc)
Slow-spinning 3m mercury mirror on order.
12" LightBridge dlux/replaced secondary (bad coatings!)
Seeking an 18-22" f/5-6 mirror. Wish me luck.
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vegasmo
member
Reged: 07/20/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Great post. Thanks for the advice.
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12" Meade Lightbridge
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MicroFromage
member
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 54
Loc: France
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Fantastic thread, really. I'd add only two things ( it is possible I may have missed someone saying it already, I've skim read and just with that picked up some brilliant tips ).
1. Take your glasses off when viewing.
2. Take your contact lenses out.
(1) because at least with my eyesight ( short sight, astigmatism quite bad ) I get secondary ghost images through the telescope and the image is darker with glasses.
(2) because staring through and eyepiece makes the lens pop out ( gas permeable contacts ) as I found out last night.
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Now a guaranteed irony free zone.
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vegasmo
member
Reged: 07/20/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Great article.
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12" Meade Lightbridge
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Robert g
super member
Reged: 06/25/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Howell, NJ USA
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Great advice! Thanks for sharing this with all.
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Regards,
Robert g
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- Deep Space Observer 10" Dob -
Tweaked & Flocked on ball bearing base.-
- Meade 114NT/500-Dob.
- Meade DS2080 AT
- Celestron Skymaster 15X70
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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Kluang, Johor, Malaysia
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Now I just know that night observing experience is another important factor also.
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-Robin
QHY CCD
My Astronomy Blog - http://www.astronomynotes.net
Meade 8" LX90 + LPI + QHY5 + Denk's Power x Switch S2 Diagonal
More equipments @ here
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Flavio Lemos
member
Reged: 08/08/06
Posts: 10
Loc: São Paulo, Brazil
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Amoreau13,
One item that helped me a lot in finding objects was a green laser pointer. With that I can see exactly where my telescope is pointing and can compare with a star chart. Another thing that helps is a wide field eyepiece.
I can find lots of interesting objects with my TV 85. With your 8" scope you can have lots of fun. Keep trying, soon you will find the way!
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Dan in San Diego
member
Reged: 02/06/06
Posts: 17
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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My favorite thing about the green laser pointer is not that I can see more with its help, but that I can help others to see more with it. It's fantastic for pointing out constellations and other items to newbies (like myself).
Dan
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Equipment: Eyes, Bent glasses, but without tape, Celestron 10x50s
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Richards Beggins
member
Reged: 08/31/06
Posts: 85
Loc: Genova-Italy
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Wow...a very big article!!!
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Kim Miau
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Kluang, Johor, Malaysia
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Quote:
Wow...a very big article!!!
Indeed. This is a very nice thread and most of the beginners will benefit from this. This thread is undoubtedly useful for visual observers.
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-Robin
QHY CCD
My Astronomy Blog - http://www.astronomynotes.net
Meade 8" LX90 + LPI + QHY5 + Denk's Power x Switch S2 Diagonal
More equipments @ here
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desertstars
Deja moo
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 30044
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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This thread has been added to the "Best Of" thread for the Beginner's Forum.
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
Alcohol and calculus do not mix. Please don't drink and derive.
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13915
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Scared me when I saw it wasn't 'pinned' at the top anymore.
This one is definitely one that doesn't need to get lost. 
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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desertstars
Deja moo
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 30044
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Oh, it won't.
But let this be a lesson. We have the "Best Of" thread for a very good reason. So much good stuff appears in the Beginners Forum that if we pinned all of it, indefinitely, you'd have to go three or four pages into the forum to find new posts! 
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
Alcohol and calculus do not mix. Please don't drink and derive.
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lotus1
sage
Reged: 12/11/06
Posts: 236
Loc: PALM COAST FL USA
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nice info. I've been training my eye by sketching. I made a post a few days ago on how I found this to be great. I feel more newbies should try this.
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Celestron SE 8 SCT
SWAN eyepieces 9 15 20 25 33 40mm
9mm LV
Celestron Omni 2x barlow
Celestron filters & LPR
Tele Vue bandmates (nep/oxy lll)
"I find your lack of faith, disturbing".
-Darth Vader-
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