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Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope?
      #311755 - 01/15/05 07:16 PM

Thinking of Buying a Celestron C6-RGT As Your First Scope?

Before you purchase:

The scope is an excellent performer for the price and I am very happy with the purchase. But before you buy, there are several things you should be aware of:

1. Viewing positions in a large refractor are often very uncomfortable. Many interesting objects are directly overhead – given the low eyepiece position, viewing them requires laying on the ground – particularly unpleasant in the winter.
2. The scope is large and heavy though none of the pieces is unmanageable by itself. The mount and tripod (without weights) weighs about 35# and is easily moved with the legs at their shortest position. The OTA, although long, only weighs about 20# (25# after modifications) and is easily carried by the dovetail. Assembly requires 4-5 trips outdoors – tripod and mount, then balance weights, then OTA, then power unit and accessories and finally a viewing chair.
3. Slewing to position is noisy – equivalent to a power drill on medium speed. The noise is enough that I fear it is bothering the neighbors when I am out late at night. Fortunately, the motors are whisper quite during tracking.
4. Save at least 50% of your budget for accessories. The scope is only the beginning of the purchase – by the time you pick up the items you need to make viewing a pleasant and interesting experience, you will spend at least another 50% of the original purchase price in add-ons.

You will probably read books and articles suggesting a DOB for a first scope. Although I ignored the advice, in retrospect the suggestions were valid. I believe an 8” DOB is the best scope for someone just starting out. The scopes are very good performers at a reasonable price. Setup is simple, they are easy to transport to a dark-sky site, viewing positions are much more comfortable and the user can quickly move the scope to look at any object in the sky. The Skyquest XT8 Intelliquest from Orion is an excellent buy at $497.

You may find the DOB meets your needs for many years. If not, they are easy to sell or can be passed down to a younger family member. You can always pick up the large refractor at a later date if your interest in the hobby holds. And if you purchase your accessories wisely, they can move with you when and if you upgrade scopes.

When To Buy:
Depending on your location, winter can be a difficult time of year to get your first scope. Winter skies do have a number of wondrous sights, and seeing conditions can be quite good on clear, cold nights but freezing cold weather, dew, rain, fog and cloudy skies can quickly frustrate a novice astronomer. Learning to use your equipment correctly, and learning the layout of the skies, requires time and patience. Warm spring and summer nights make the experience much more relaxed and comfortable while you are learning.

Purchase and Shipping:
There are a number of excellent on-line vendors. I purchased my scope from Anacortes Bird and Telescope. The purchase experience was perfect. They stayed in touch by email during the transaction and advised me when the unit shipped - including links with the tracking numbers for all boxes. The scope was shipped in 3 boxes – 2 of which arrived on one truck (the tripod and mount) and a third 5 hours later on a second truck (the OTA).

The pieces were well packed and suffered no damage in shipment. The packing attention paid off because 2 of the 3 boxes suffered significant compression damage at the hands of the shipper but the scope was unscathed.

Assembly:
Assembly is fairly straight-forward. Read the manual carefully before starting. The instructions are adequate although the assembly drawings don’t supply as much small detail as I would have liked. A couple of things to note.

1. Tripod Alignment Bolt
The tripod ships with the alignment bolt between the legs. Some people feel this can lead to instability when the weights are installed and prefer that the weights be over a tripod leg. There are several threads on the internet discussing the pros and cons of each position. If you wish to move the bolt, it simply unscrews and can be easily screwed into the alternate position over a leg. I elected to move the bolt and find the mount to be very stable in that configuration.

2. Mounting Bracket
The instructions tell you to locate the small scope mount bracket which will be used to install the scope to the mount. You can ignore these instructions. The scope comes with a dovetail attached to the rings and the dovetail is inserted directly in the mount. The spare mounting bracket can be used if the mount is used with another scope.

3. Mounting Platform Safety Screw
Several people have suggested that the DEC index marks are 180 degrees off since the mounting platform safety screw points down rather than up. In my case, I elected to use the factory marks – the safety screw will still function as intended and keep the dovetail pressed into the mount should the main tension knob fail. If a failure occurred and the dovetail were to slowly slide in the mount, I believe the safety screw and dovetail retaining bolt would ensure that the dovetail could not slip completely free of the retaining bracket.

Accessories:
If you decide to order the scope, following are suggestions for several accessories that I found will improve the scope’s overall performance. The majority of accessories are under $100 and many are under $50. Don’t feel you have to add them all at once. Astronomy is a very enjoyable hobby that will likely keep you interested for the rest of your life. Add a few accessories each year as your budget allows.

1. Red Light (~$25)
If you don’t already have a red flashlight, protect your night vision and get one. The Rigel Systems Skylight is an excellent unit with 2 red and 2 white LEDs. The unit is well-made, reliable, very skimpy on battery use and brightness is continuously variable with a large control-wheel.

2. Planisphere (~$10)
The alignment process is highly dependent on accurately centering the scope on 3 selected stars. The large version of “The Night Sky” by Chandler is easy to read and plastic coated for protection against dew. Be sure to select the version designed for your latitude range.

3. Celestron Powertank (~$60)
The scope comes with a long power cord with an auto lighter adapter. You need a 12v power source to plug the adapter into in order to run the scope’s motors and electronics. I purchased the Celestron 7ah Powertank - fully charged, it will handle the scope’s power needs for 4 hours or more. Celestron also makes a larger 17ah unit that is useful if you intend to also run a dew heater. One note – the power cord shipped with the scope has a quick-blow fuse in tip of the auto adapter. If your scope won’t function, replace the fuse (Radio Shack carries them – part #270-1054 3A-250v-5mm x 20mm-Fast Acting) or try the shorter power cord that comes with the Powertank (some people feel the scope also operates more reliably with the shorter cord).

4. Right-Angle Mirror Diagonal (~$130)
With the exception of viewing objects near the horizon, don’t try to view without using a 90 degree diagonal. The diagonal that ships with the scope is adequate for the first few weeks but a good diagonal will enhance the quality of the scope’s performance. I elected to purchase the William Optics New Generation 90 degree diagonal. The product is very well made, includes a 2” to 1.5” adapter and adds needed weight to the rear of the scope to aid in balancing. Additionally, the unit uses a brass retaining ring to securely hold lenses in place.

Note: The diagonal is fairly heavy – I don’t recommend replacing the stock diagonal until after the visual back is replaced.

5. Right-Angle Finder (~$80)
Just as a right-angle finder is a necessity for the scope, it is also mandatory for the finder. The Celestron 9x50 finder works quite well but is inaccessible at many viewing angles. Save your back and get the Orion 90 degree RACI (right-angle correct image) finder. It is well made, offers the same power as the Celestron unit, is a perfect color-match and the included bracket fits the same dovetail as the stock finder.

6. Focus Knobs (~$30)
The focus knobs that come with the scope are completely inadequate and give the scope a cheap feel. I ordered the 2” brass focus knobs from focusknobs.com. The knobs are very, very well machined. They fit perfectly, look beautiful and give the focuser a much more professional look. In addition, the larger, heavier knobs give a much better feel to the sticky focuser mechanism and help shift the balance point lower.

7. Visual Back (~$35)
The 2” visual back that ships with the scope has an inexpensive feel and uses a single retaining screw to hold the diagonal. Mercury Systems supplies a well-machined replacement that uses a brass retaining ring to hold the diagonal securely. The unit installs easily by simply unscrewing the old back and screwing on the new one. Check mercurysupportsystems.com and look for part #SFA2. Highly recommended.

8. Fringe-Killer (~$70)
The scope is not an APO and will have some degree of chromatic aberration (CA) on bright objects. Fortunately, several manufacturers make inexpensive filters which can minimize the affects. I elected to purchase the Baader Fringe Killer. The filter removes 60-70% of the CA while maintaining a natural color rendition. You will only use the filter on a few bright objects such as Mercury, Saturn and the moon. On deep-sky objects, the scope’s performance is excellent without a filter installed. For those of you that can adjust to an overall color-shift in the image, the Celestron (Baader) Contrast Booster will completely eliminate CA at the expense of a noticeable shift to a yellow-brown image. Personally, I found the Fringe Killer a more acceptable compromise between CA and natural coloration. The Baader Moon and Sky filter, used in combination with the Fringe Killer, seems to enhance the image further.

9. Polarizing Filter (~$25)
Orion makes a very nice 2 part rotating polarizing filter. The filter is particularly useful on the moon. The moon is very bright when viewed through an EP and will quickly erase your night vision. The polarizing filter will allow you to dial the brightness to a comfortable level while leaving the color neutral. In addition, the filter will dramatically reduce the CA.

10. Eyepieces (~$180)
The 20mm Plossl that comes with the C6R is an adequate performer but additional EPs will be needed to take full advantage of the scope. EP selection is highly personal but, in general, it is best to buy quality EPs as you will likely keep them for many years. Start with a high-power EP for planetary work and a low-power objective for wide angle views.

For wide-sky viewing, I selected the 30mm Celestron Ultima. Be sure to get the latest model that has the machined retaining groove. The EP is of very high quality and offers beautiful views of objects such as the Pleiades.

For planetary work, I ordered a 9mm HD Ortho from University Optics. Again, a well-made high-power EP that offers sharp contrasty views of the moon and planets. I have since added a 7mm HD Ortho, a 12mm HD Ortho and an 18mm Ultima. The 18mm is now my favorite EP.

Televue Naglers and Panoptics offer superb wide-field performance and are well worth consideration if your budget allows. Televue Plossls are also high quality EPs offered at a very reasonable price.

11. Barlow (~$105)
A good Barlow lens will double number of magnifications you will have access to. Don’t skimp – the Barlow will be used to increase magnification near the limits of seeing and optics. You don’t want to introduce any distortions at high magnifications when you are looking for contrast and detail. Celestron makes a highly rated Ultima 2x Barlow that works quite well (in contrast to the low quality Barlow that ships with the scope). I elected to spend a little more to get a Televue 2x Barlow – superb optics and it uses a brass retaining ring to hold the lens in place – rather than a retaining screw which will scratch the lens barrel.

12. Chair (~$160)
Although the purchase of a chair threw me well over my intended budget, it quickly became a mandatory purchase. Using a large refractor, you will find yourself in a variety of uncomfortable viewing positions. A good quality, adjustable chair makes all the difference between taking a quick look and spending 30-60 minutes watching shadows along the terminator on the moon. Starbound makes an excellent chair that is lightweight, strong and easily adjustable.

13. Telrad (~$40)
The Telrad is a strange looking box that makes finding objects a breeze. The Telrad will get you in the general area, then the finder can be used to center on the object. Get one – after a few days, you’ll find it an invaluable addition.

14. Dew Shield (~$45)
Many users have elected to remove the stock dew shield and replace it with a lighter foam shield made by AstroZap. Again, this is one of many incremental changes owners make to reduce weight on the forward-end of the scope to aid in balancing. For time being, I decided to stick with the stock shield. Although a bit heavier than the AstroZap product, the steel tube provides protection to the large lens element.

15. Polar Scope (~$50)
A polar scope is not necessary to obtain an alignment adequate for visual use but is a nice addition to the mount. If you do decide to buy a polar scope, skip the Celestron scope and buy the Orion model designed for the Skyview Pro. Simply remove the entire polar scope mounting ring from the AS-GT and the Orion scope screws directly into the same hole. The Orion scope is etched with Casseopia and the Little Dipper for precise alignment on the North Celestial Pole.

Note – the Orion scope comes with a plain aluminum ring around the polar scope. If you like the current numbered Celestron ring (I did – it looks more scientific), the rings can be easily switched by removing 2 very tiny screws and unscrewing the front retaining ring from both the polar scope and Celestron polar mount.

16. Sky Atlas (~$65)
The sky is a target rich environment a good sky atlas is critical if you are going to locate DSOs. The Sky Atlas 2000 by Wil Tirion is one of the best (this is a different book than the Cambridge Star Atlas by the same author). The book comes in 6 versions – white stars on black, black stars on white, black stars on white with color and then laminated versions of each. Personally, I like the Sky Atlas 2000 2nd Edition Desk Laminated version which shows black stars on a white background. Although the color version is nice, the cost is over $120 laminated and some of the objects can be difficult to see at night under a red light. The laminated versions cost a bit more but will protect your investment when the book is outside on dew filled evenings. Additionally, you can make notes on the laminate and wipe them off when you move on to a different section of the sky.

Viewing Height:
My only serious frustration with the stock scope has been the low eyepiece location when viewing objects high in the sky. Although the brass knobs and WO diagonal helped add weight to the rear of the scope, the ultimate solution was to add a 3rd mounting ring close to the eyepiece and bridge the 2nd and 3rd rings with a heavy steel plate. The plate makes a perfect home for the Telrad.

AllMetalsInc (http://www.allmetalsinc.com/crflat0375.html) sells small steel plates (~$3-4 ea) in a variety of sizes that can be painted to match the scope. The addition of a 3/8” x 2-1/2” x 8” CR plate with ring, bolts and Telrad added another 2-1/2 lbs to the rear of the scope and allowed me raise the scope several critical inches.

Note: If you do make modifications to the OTA, keep an eye on the total weight. With all the changes to date, the OTA/finder/diagonal/Telrad/eyepiece combination now weighs 25.8 pounds. This is well below the 30 pound mount capacity and allows for the use of a heavier eyepiece such as a Nagel or a mid-range camera for astrophotography.

Alignment:
Warning: The scope’s computer is not very smart and it will select slews that force the OTA into the tripod legs. Should the scope impact the tripod, you could cause significant damage to the drives. You can press any of the directional arrows to immediately stop the slew. Be cautioned when pressing “undo” to skip a star during alignment - if you are near a leg, the scope may abruptly change direction and impact a leg before you can react. I’ve found it preferable to use the arrows to slew well away from the legs before selecting the next alignment star.

I found the alignment process initially frustrating because the accuracy of the GoTos varied from night to night. Assuming it was primarily my fault, I took the following steps and find that the process has become much more reliable.

1. Level the tripod - CAREFULLY
If the tripod isn’t level, the mount has no way of making an accurate determination of position as it skews. The bubble balance in the tripod may not be accurate. Check it at least once with an external level.

2. Locate Polaris in the polar scope
If you don’t have a polar scope, carefully center Polaris in the polar scope mounting hole.

3. Align the RA index stickers and lock the clutch.

4. Loosen the DEC clutch and center Polaris in a 20mm eyepiece. Lock the DEC clutch. Ignore the DEC alignment stickers.

5. Before starting the mount alignment procedure, be sure that the Telrad and finder scope are aligned with the OTA.

6. Enter the correct time, date, time zone, daylight savings setting, longitude and latitude for your viewing site. Be as exact as possible. You can find the time and lat/long settings for your address at various sites on the internet.

7. Select “Auto 3 Star Align” rather than “Auto Align”. The scope will allow you to select 3 stars from a list (2 will be on one side of the Meridian and 1 on the other side). When selecting stars from the list, try to pick stars which are between 30-60 degrees above the horizon, are NOT within 5 degrees of Polaris and are far enough apart to form a broad triangle. Do not attempt to center the star until the scope asks you to do so – this may be a few seconds after the scope appears to stop slewing.

You will probably find that the slew to the first star is off by several degrees. The second and third star should be visible in the finder. Be sure to verify that you are centered on the correct star – centering on the wrong star will lead to grossly inaccurate GoTos.

8. Center the scope carefully on each star using the Telrad to be sure you are in the correct vicinity, then narrowing in with the finder and EP. A 9-12mm Ortho EP works well for centering since the field of view is fairly narrow. If you are uncertain if the star is centered, take it out of focus and center the larger unfocused image. A 9-12mm illuminated reticle eyepiece will obviously help make this process much easier and exact if you have access to one.

When centering on a star, make all final adjustments using only the RIGHT and UP arrows. If you need to use the LEFT or DOWN arrow, overshoot the mark by a wide margin (1/2 the FOV in the eyepiece) then use the RIGHT and UP arrows to make the final adjustments. This will minimize the effect of backlash in the gears and enhance the accuracy of the alignment.

9. Once all stars have been centered, the scope will perform its calculations and advise if the alignment was successful. Several people have suggested that a shorter calculation period (5-10 seconds) indicates a more accurate alignment than a longer calculation period (15-20 seconds).

Note – Celestron periodically releases firmware updates for the mount (the software in the hand controller is only upgradeable at the factory) At the time of this writing, the current version is 5.06. If you are on an earlier version and experiencing runaway slews or other problems, you should consider upgrading (the version can be checked through the menus). A Celestron port expander and programming cable are required for installation of the patch.

Future Plans:

1. Mount Extension
Despite the changes I’ve made so far, the viewing position is still 6” too low for comfort. Since the AS-GT mount is apparently very similar to the Orion Skyview Pro mount, I will probably pick up the 16” extension Orion offers for the Skyview Pro and see if I can have it machined to a 6” length.

2. Focuser
If I decide to keep the scope long-term (My dream scope has always been a 115-120mm AP or Takahashi APO), at some point I will replace the focuser with a better machined unit. Although the stock unit is adequate, it is a bit jerky when trying to achieve fine focus at high magnification. I imagine that this is partially due to the Synta-glue clogging the stock unit but is also attributable to the poor mechanics of the focuser. I have also noticed that the focuser shifts axis slightly when changing rotation direction of the focus knobs. Both Moonlight and Feather Touch offer high-quality, well machined replacement units. I am currently leaning towards the Moonlight since it’s a directly bolt-up to the existing screw holes – the unit’s 3 lb 8 oz weight will allow the scope to balance slightly lower than the stock focuser.

3. Cases
I would like to start taking the scope to dark-sky sites once or twice a month as time and weather allow. Before I do, I plan to pick up a soft case for the tripod and mount and a well-padded case for the OTA. Orion sells soft, padded cases for $60-$80 which fit the scope nicely (#15164 for the OTA and #15175A for the tripod). An extra foam rubber camping pad inserted in the case will give the OTA additional protection.

Summary:

The CR-RGT is a great scope and I’m glad I bought it. I appreciate the light gathering capacity of the 6” optics and have really enjoyed making minor enhancements to improve the usability of the scope. The mount seems very stable for visual use and the price for the mount/OTA combination is unbeatable. If you decide to purchase the C6R, have fun personalizing it to meet your needs. But most of all, take time to enjoy the skies!


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Tom L

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Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 30798
Loc: Sunny Oregon
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #311775 - 01/15/05 07:55 PM

Wow! What an awesome post, Harley! You know, when you asked me earlier today about the focuser, I didn't realize all you had done and where you were with this scope.

Scott Beith, Harley asked about a moonlite refractor focuser in another forum for this scope and I refered him to you...

--------------------
Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount


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pollux

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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 6539
Loc: Vancouver Canada
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Tom L]
      #311780 - 01/15/05 07:57 PM

I was thinking getting the MoonLite focuser for my refractor (The AR-6 version will fit on my Antares)....but after I found out the price.....I gave up

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

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badsnoopy
One star is enough
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Reged: 12/20/04
Posts: 3556
Loc: La Porte, IN
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #311910 - 01/15/05 09:28 PM

This is an outstanding write-up of the C6-RGT. We have talked about things with this scope and you've still managed to teach me a few new things. Anyone thinking about getting this scope has to read this. Great job and glad you took the time to do it.

--------------------
Robert

TV Genesis SDF
Losmandy G11
10x14 Roll roof observatory
Lumenera SkyNyx 2-2m


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie (sort of)
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Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 24369
Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: badsnoopy]
      #311919 - 01/15/05 09:34 PM

Nice job! The moderators might want to pin this to the top of the Forum.

--------------------
John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Tak FS-128 F/8 APO
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
C14
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
CI-700, NJP, GPDX/SS2KPC, SP/SS2kPC
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Don W
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Reged: 05/19/03
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #311926 - 01/15/05 09:40 PM

I'll do just that, John. Thanks

--------------------
Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary


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Chris G
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Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 4175
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #311927 - 01/15/05 09:41 PM

Great write up, it is a great scope but all scopes have their quirks, the biggest for me the viewing height at zenith although a few modifications have made the balance better.

Hope you keep enjoying your scope.

--------------------
"Ain't nothin' Human 'bout the Human Race"


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william
professor emeritus
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Reged: 12/20/04
Posts: 556
Loc: Lexington , South Carolina
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #311929 - 01/15/05 09:41 PM

Great post! I just got the C6R-GT , you gave me a lot of good information that will make it much easier when I get to use the scope . I was deciding between the moonlite and the william focuser .

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pollux

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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 6539
Loc: Vancouver Canada
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: william]
      #311938 - 01/15/05 09:50 PM

William Optics VR-1 does a much better job on removing the violet halo, IMHO.

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Tim13
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 577
Loc: Midwest
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #312020 - 01/15/05 11:08 PM

"3. Slewing to position is noisy – equivalent to a power drill on medium speed. The noise is enough that I fear it is bothering the neighbors when I am out late at night. Fortunately, the motors are whisper quite during tracking."

Does the Celestron mount/controller allow you to slow down the slew speed like you can with the Meades? I often will reduce my LX200 slew speed from the default setting of 8 (on a scale of 1 to 8) to 6. This signifigantly quiets the motors, and doesn't really take very much longer to slew to the next object.

Tim

--------------------
One blue telescope.
One white telescope.
One white(formerly gray!)telescope.


Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.


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tishovlin
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 1842
Loc: Springfield, Pa
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #312025 - 01/15/05 11:16 PM

Great job! That steel dew shield is a big reason the front end is so heavy. I would imagine with an AstroZap you raise the eyepiece at least an inch, maybe 2. I think it is much better to improve the eyepiece height by lightening the front end rather than loading up with dead weight at the back end. I would like to hear how the extension tube works out.

--------------------
Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini


I'm headin for Galt's Gulch


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #312057 - 01/15/05 11:52 PM

Thanks for the positive feedback - the C6R is a nice scope and I was hoping to consolidate many of the things I've leaned in the past 8 weeks.

Pollux - I hope I can find someone locally with a VR-1 - it sounds like you may have found an improvement over the Baader.

Tim - good suggestion - you set the slew speed easily from the hand controller from 1-9. I'll try to remember to scale it down next time I'm out late - I imagine that 7 and below will be very quiet.

Tim S - Thanks, I agree about adding weight - I just couldn't find a better solution. I think that the 2.5# should be fine with the mount.

The dew shield is a heavy addition to the front end - I removed it (I don't have an Astrozap to test with) and found your estimate was correct - the balance point changes exactly 1.5" lower.

Regards,
Harley

----------
C6-RGT


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Scott BeithAdministrator
SRF
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Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 35519
Loc: Mount Airy, MD
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312074 - 01/16/05 12:06 AM

Harley,
It looks like you are well on your way to creating a scope designed just as you want it. Excellent post Sir. Some of those points look familiar...

Keep up the good work and let us know when you make more improvements to your scope.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Scott BeithAdministrator
SRF
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Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 35519
Loc: Mount Airy, MD
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312075 - 01/16/05 12:06 AM

Harley,
It looks like you are well on your way to creating a scope designed just as you want it. Excellent post Sir. Some of those points look familiar...

Keep up the good work and let us know when you make more improvements to your scope.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #312118 - 01/16/05 01:14 AM

Scott,

Thanks - I am but a humble trainee - you are the master Your posts re the CR150 were my incentive to buy and start working on the scope.

Figuring out how to make the scope useable has been a lot of fun - and it kept me out of trouble while I had some time off over Christmas.

Harley

------------
C6-RGT


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312120 - 01/16/05 01:18 AM

Harley, you can buy VR-1 online

--------------------
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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #312125 - 01/16/05 01:22 AM

Harley,
You have done well - really well. A large refractor makes a great "project scope". I pieced mine together to create just what I wanted. A 6" refractor is a very capable scope.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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SAL
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #312390 - 01/16/05 12:18 PM

Harley: Wow, what a great post and resource for those interested in this scope... (Scott)

--------------------
Stellarvue 102BV (Feather Touch focuser)
Burgess 1278 (MoonLite CF2B focuser)
Hardin 10-inch Dob (GSO Crayford Focuser)
7x50 Binoculars

The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. (Psalms 19:1 NASB)


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #312394 - 01/16/05 12:19 PM

What a super, super review.

Mark


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Chris G
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312423 - 01/16/05 12:48 PM

I feel bad for Harley though. He posted the link on the Yahoo 6" refractor group and was villified by a couple of people. I wrote back that I thought they were too harsh and that I thought the article was great and pointed out a few things a potential buyer should know.

Great job Harley, lots of good information there regardless of what some may say.

--------------------
"Ain't nothin' Human 'bout the Human Race"


Edited by Chris G (01/16/05 12:49 PM)


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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #312513 - 01/16/05 02:22 PM

Quote:

Great job Harley, lots of good information there regardless of what some may say.




Yes - please keep the reports coming!

--------------------
John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Tak FSQ-106N F/5 APO
Tak FS-128 F/8 APO
Meade 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade ETX-125AT
C14
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #312578 - 01/16/05 03:30 PM

Chris/Scott/Mark/John - Appreciate the positive feedback - I hope the post contains some useful info.

Pollux - thanks for the info - and if you ever get access to a Fringe Killer, I would love to see an update to your excellent photo comparison on the filters.

I was surprised (and I admit a little amused) at the yahoo response to the link. It looks like my post, and several followups, were removed and my posting priveldge revoked.

I was tried and found guitly on 2 counts -
>mentioning the word "dob" in a refractor group in a positive light
and
>"conspiring to turn an achro into an APO".

But your honor, I never mentioned the word "Chromacor".

At the risk of repeating myself, I would just like to reiterate that Cloudy Nights is a tremendous resource to amateur astronomers. The level of knowledge that many of the members have accumulated, as well as the respectful way that everyone interacts, make me grateful to be part of the community.

Regards,
Harley

----------
C6-RGT


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celestial_search
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #312583 - 01/16/05 03:34 PM

Nice review. My friend bought one a month ago. We hope to view through both our scopes when the weather clears. I'll alert him to this post. I found the section about alignment matches my experience to a tee.

--------------------
Frank

C-11 XLT
8" f/6 Newt on GEM
Tak FS-102II
SV 80L Triplet APO
EQ-6 Mount on pier in backyard observatory (EQMOD)
CG-5 AS (GOTO)
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Donnie
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: celestial_search]
      #312602 - 01/16/05 04:02 PM

Congratulations Hiker. I had one of those scopes a few years ago. You will get a lot of great views and use from that scope.

As far as the Yahoo groups thing. Four or five years ago, they were the only game in town. They used to be called e-groups. Then Yahoo took over. NOw there are a lot better choices on the net. CN is a good example.

I find Yahoo groupos to be the most non-user friendly groups around. Not just because of the people that frequent them. Cause there are some nice people to be found on them. The way the messages are stored and retrieved. None of the groups are easy to search. Very hard to find useful information that is more than a few days old.

The people are another thing. I am a member of about 8 groups, most are non-astro related. I do 3d animation on the side for several local production studios. I use those groups to help stay current within the field. Software discussion.

I dont know what it is about Astronomy. Most people I meet online and offline are really great. But for some reason most people are unwilling to think that someone could choose differently from them and enjoy it. A great amount of ownership pride comes into play in Astronomy.

Take my 127ED. I am very pleased with it. I think it was a bargain at $1100. At the same time I know full well that it is not a "premium" refractor. Mechanics or optical wise. I know that limitation and I accept it. Yet if I go to most any major Astronomy forum and describe the wonderful views it gives, well, people immediately say stuff like "You dont know what a good scope is", or you are just a noob. The Yahoo groups seem to be the worst about this. A very elitest attitude exists on most all of them. I love being called a noob by someone who just got in the hobby a year ago and bought all "premium" equipment. After more than 20 years at this hobby I really get a kick out of it. Im not an expert by any means. But the thing that I learned early on is to enjoy and make the most of the equipment you have on hand. Sure we would all love to own the "best" equipment.

The only Yahoo group that I have consistently been a member of over the years is the SCT users group which is run by Rod Mollise. It is Catadioptric focused, but people are allowed to say what they want. Within reason. Obviously profanity is not something that is condoned. But if a user finds a problem with a scope, they are encouraged to post about it. Sometime a solution can be found, if everyone knows the problem. Rod is a good example of a good group owner.

I see that your report on the Yahoo group was not viewed positively. Thats the other side of the groups. If you post something that is not 100% positive about a scope a lot of times it gets censored. People simply dont want to hear about inadequacies of their respective choice. I am quite the opposite.

I like to have all the information I can before making a purchase. Being on a budget I know that every scope I purchase will have its share of compromises. Your report would have been very helpful when I bought one of these scopes a few years ago.

Obviously, every scope is a compromise in some area. But being on a budget this is even more obvious. I am glad you posted the review. Hopefully others contemplating a purchase decision will find it useful.

Thanks for sharing with the group. Im sure many will find it invaluable reading.

--------------------
Donnie

Scopeless for a while now, too busy anyway.
About to change that!!
Wonderful wife.



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Chris G
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312672 - 01/16/05 05:58 PM

Quote:

Chris/Scott/Mark/John - Appreciate the positive feedback - I hope the post contains some useful info.

Pollux - thanks for the info - and if you ever get access to a Fringe Killer, I would love to see an update to your excellent photo comparison on the filters.

I was surprised (and I admit a little amused) at the yahoo response to the link. It looks like my post, and several followups, were removed and my posting priveldge revoked.

I was tried and found guitly on 2 counts -
>mentioning the word "dob" in a refractor group in a positive light
and
>"conspiring to turn an achro into an APO".

But your honor, I never mentioned the word "Chromacor".

At the risk of repeating myself, I would just like to reiterate that Cloudy Nights is a tremendous resource to amateur astronomers. The level of knowledge that many of the members have accumulated, as well as the respectful way that everyone interacts, make me grateful to be part of the community.

Regards,
Harley

----------
C6-RGT




Ditto, my posts must be approved by the owner. Must be if you offer an opinion differing from the owner your blacklisted and your post removed.

I had posted this in response to his Ralph's (lens_doc) post where he completely disagreed with everything you said. I hate Yahoo Groups that won't allow post a disenting opinion. The owner get on their own little power trips. Small minds must be.

Here was what I had posted.

"I disagree almost completely on your write up of the C6-RGT, and the perception you seem to be trying to leave people about this scope. You make it seem like the scope needs hundreds of dollars to be a decent scope. I hate to see people make write ups like this, because the C6-RGT right out of the box is an excellent scope for the money."

Ralph I think you're coming off a little strong in your response. Overall I think this is a great write up with a lot of great information.

"You make it seem like the scope needs hundreds of dollars to be a decent scope. "

I don't agree here Ralph. The write up says;

" Accessories:
If you decide to order the scope, following are suggestions for several accessories that I found will improve the scope’s overall performance. The majority of accessories are under $100 and many are under $50. Don’t feel you have to add them all at once. Astronomy is a very enjoyable hobby that will likely keep you interested for the rest of your life. Add a few accessories each year as your budget allows. "

As he says, they are suggestions.

I think the write up is good in that it while this is a fantastic scope, it's large, heavy and has some quirks to work through. I wish I had read a write up like this when I had gotten my scope, I still would have bought it but I would have known some of issues I would have to deal with I wouldn't have had some of the initial frustration I had. How about the fact you do have to buy a power supply to use it, I can't get my truck into my back yard to use the 12V cord supplied with the scope and they don't make a 12V adapter that works with the mount, even though they listed one for it, that was a waste of money to buy when I bought the scope. With out power the mount and scope are tough to use, that information would have nice to know so that I didn't have to let my scope sit through a couple of clear nights waiting for the power supply to arrive. That's valuable information for a new buyer to have.

The accessories listed do make it a better scope and maybe Harley could have worded it as these will make your viewing more enjoyable but he did say they are suggestions.

I love my C6R-GT and while it's far from perfect it's a great scope but a newbie could be very intimidated by the mount set up and alignment and I think Harley gives some valuable tips here.

"Summary:

The CR-RGT is a great scope and I’m glad I bought it. I appreciate the light gathering capacity of the 6” optics and have really enjoyed making minor enhancements to improve the usability of the scope. The mount seems very stable for visual use and the price for the mount/OTA combination is unbeatable. If you decide to purchase the C6R, have fun personalizing it to meet your needs. But most of all, take time to enjoy the skies!"

Couldn't agree with this more, well said.

Just my opinions, not that they count for anything. YMMV

Chris
Jackson, MI

Now I ask you, was my post out of line???

--------------------
"Ain't nothin' Human 'bout the Human Race"


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #312700 - 01/16/05 06:36 PM

Donnie,

Thanks for the response. It is unfortunate the some of the yahoo groups have such a narrow perspective. By censuring information which disagrees with the moderator's viewpoint, they are really doing a disservice to the other users on the forum. Like you, I am on a budget and try to understand the positives and negatives before engaging in a major purchase.


Chris,

Thanks for copying your yahoo post - it was not available by the time I read the forum earlier today. It seems like a thoughtfully presented, polite response.

Regards,
Harley


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Refractor6
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #312826 - 01/16/05 09:14 PM

Harley,
My Skywatcher 150 f/8 has been a ongoing{now complete} labor of love. So I much appreciated your very good write up on improvements and modifications owners can do to the scope. Sorry to hear that some others out there don't understand this point of view. With some thoughtful additions these scopes can present you with years of satisfying observing. Cloudy Nights is a great place to hear many different points of view on astro equipment and because of that something new can always be learned from this site.


-----------

Stan

Skywatcher 150 f/8 refractor
Antares "Prototype"127 f/6.45 refractor
Skywatcher ED80
Celestron/Vixen Premium 80
Orion 9x63+15 x63 mini giant binoculars

Edited by Refractor6 (01/16/05 09:17 PM)


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Refractor6]
      #312899 - 01/16/05 10:45 PM

Not just learning something new.....

Knowing who's the refractor nuts is real fun.

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
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Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

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Rusty
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #312917 - 01/16/05 11:17 PM

Hmmmm....pollux, does anyone come to mind?

--------------------
N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey


Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Rusty]
      #312992 - 01/17/05 01:36 AM

Stan,

Thanks for the kind words - glad to hear that you are enjoying the Skywatcher 150 - we are so fortunate to have excellent 6" achros available at such a reasonable price.

Regards,
Harley

------------
C6-RGT


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Rusty]
      #313335 - 01/17/05 12:17 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm....pollux, does anyone come to mind?




Rusty, you should know who I am referring

2 "s" and 2 "b"

--------------------
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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #313767 - 01/17/05 06:06 PM



--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #313913 - 01/17/05 08:23 PM

I can't really mention who they are. I only can "hint" or I will get sued for leaking out trade secrets

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #314149 - 01/17/05 11:34 PM

Ah, pollux, you're right on..we know who they (/you) are (and we have complete dossiers on them, as well as constant surveillance...)

--------------------
N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey


Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Donnie]
      #320613 - 01/24/05 12:49 AM

Quote:

I do 3d animation on the side for several local production studios.




Really?! I like doing 3D stuff but my skill is still limited to the hobby level

Yeah, I also find the Yahoo groups and many internet forums out there (especially those dealing with nerd/geek related topics like computer, electronic, games etc) are sometimes very harsh to deal with.

Many of the posters there are just little kids who stay in front of the computer & TV screen 24/7. They really need peopling skills BADLY.

In some graphic/CG related forums I was usually being bashed by the professionals (many of them have been in the industry for long time but they hurt people like no tomorrow....maybe they hate competition?)..... 80% of them all said the same thing - my works stink

Seriously, there were a few times I was so hurt and almost put me to a point that I really don't want to do graphics/3D/multimedia stuff anymore ......because of those jerks.

Still recovering from the damage on my confidence

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #320645 - 01/24/05 02:13 AM

Pollux,

I agree with many of your perceptions. That's why I was so pleased to find Cloudy Nights - people are consistently polite and friendly, there is a broad spectrum of experience to draw on and newcomers are genuinely welcomed.

Hang in there with the graphics - one of the keys to life is to find something you honestly enjoy doing and it sounds like you have - now if I could just get you to paint orange flames on that nice white AR6



Harley
----------
C6-RGT


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #320650 - 01/24/05 02:24 AM

Quote:


now if I could just get you to paint orange flames on that nice white AR6



Harley






NOT A CHANCE!

BTW, my scope isn't AR-6 while it looks like it.

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #321086 - 01/24/05 03:45 PM

Does anyone have photos of their C6R setups?

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #321181 - 01/24/05 06:03 PM

Scott,

Excellent idea - it would be great to see what people have done with the scope - I'll try to borrow a camera and post a couple this w/e.

Regards,
Harley

----------
C6-RGT


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Donnie
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #321309 - 01/24/05 08:59 PM

The following is off topic, I apologise in advance.

Pollux. I have been to your website. On the contrary, your work does not stink. Well rounded portfolio you have there. It took me a long time to break into the local scene here. I would go to companies and submit demo tapes of my work. Never hear back from them.

I thought the same as you. My work just stinks. Then one day a guy I work with at my regular job mentioned to me that he knew one of the guys who is a partner in a local studio. Said he knew him real well. I explained my dilemma to him. He took my demo tape for the guy to see. I got a call right away. I stopped by the studio the next day. I get work from them probably once or twice a month.

What I found out is that when I would drop my tape off, the receptionist would always give it to the "3D" guy there. Well, as you might imagine, he really didnt want anyone else doing the work, it might cut him out of a job. Since then I have learned to ask for the production manager at studio's. If I know he has a part in the graphic production, I might even ask the receptionist to give the tape to a higher up.

I was quite surprised at how well this worked. There's a reason I was never getting calls back, no one wanted anyone else to know of my work.

Its a very competetive industry. Keep at it. If you love to do it, it will be obvious and your work will reflect that and I think it currently does.

As far as forums for 3D software, to some degree they are worse than Astro forums. If its not some guy ripping your work off, its someone ripping it by tearing it apart and overly criticising it. Criticism is fine when it is constructive. We all can learn a lot from others. But often its just an excuse for an adolescent to act their age.

Most professionals dont frequent those forums. They might look through the galleries from time to time. Most of their talent and recruiting comes from people who send them samples of their work.

I think your work is excellent. Very creative and nice attention to detail. Good job!!

Sorry everyone else for being OT.

--------------------
Donnie

Scopeless for a while now, too busy anyway.
About to change that!!
Wonderful wife.



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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Donnie]
      #321326 - 01/24/05 09:17 PM

Donnie,

Great post!

Harley

--------
C6-RGT


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Rusty
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #321336 - 01/24/05 09:27 PM

Quote:

Does anyone have photos of their C6R setups?




Nay - pollux made me get his AR-6....

--------------------
N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey


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nemo
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Donnie]
      #321897 - 01/25/05 01:09 PM

Donnie,
I don't think you need to apologize. Yes these forums are about telescopes & Astronomy but they are also about people and friendships. Once in a while using this forum to address some aspect of our humanity with members here who share the same passion should not constitute violating a rule. I think it is all about degree. Initial contact and then PM for further.
Dan

--------------------
"Humility is not thinking less of your self-it is about thinking of yourself less."


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: nemo]
      #322623 - 01/26/05 06:35 AM Attachment (405 downloads)

A pic?

--------------------
Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini


I'm headin for Galt's Gulch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #322624 - 01/26/05 06:42 AM

You'll notice that, so far, I've made the usual mods. There's the Williams Optic diagonal and the Focus Knobs 2' brassies. But for scale, you can see how tall the scope can go (I'm over 6'2")

--------------------
Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini


I'm headin for Galt's Gulch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #322652 - 01/26/05 07:38 AM

Very nice looking scope Tim.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #322868 - 01/26/05 10:51 AM

Sweet!

--------------------



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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #322935 - 01/26/05 12:12 PM

I don't want to stand beside Tim's scope.

I am only standing at 5'9 and surly this setup will make me look like a dwarf

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #322985 - 01/26/05 12:48 PM

Tim,
Thats a great photo and a very nice grab and go scope. Now what are you going to get for your main larger observing scope?

Dan

--------------------
"Humility is not thinking less of your self-it is about thinking of yourself less."


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: nemo]
      #323050 - 01/26/05 01:51 PM Attachment (306 downloads)

Here is my version of that setup:

It is an older photo, I will post a newer one with the current upgrades soon.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: nemo]
      #323055 - 01/26/05 01:56 PM

Tim,

Nice looking setup!

Regards,
Harley


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #323068 - 01/26/05 02:11 PM

Quote:

I will post a newer one with the current upgrades soon.




You do have camera? Unbelievable!

--------------------
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tishovlin
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: nemo]
      #323242 - 01/26/05 04:45 PM

Quote:

Tim,
Thats a great photo and a very nice grab and go scope. Now what are you going to get for your main larger observing scope?
Dan




Dan,

Heaven forbid I make mention of my D-o-b in this forum, but learning the nuances of a GEM that tracks has whetted my appetite for imaging. I'd like to go for a TMB 115 (or the like) on a solid mount someday. By the time I can afford it, I would think that innovations will make CCD imaging more affordable and sturdy. Reliable imaging mounts should also come down a bit.

--------------------
Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini


I'm headin for Galt's Gulch


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tishovlin
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #323247 - 01/26/05 04:52 PM

Scott,

That Atlas is awesome!!

--------------------
Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini


I'm headin for Galt's Gulch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #323304 - 01/26/05 06:00 PM

Thanks Tim. It is tough to carry around.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #323330 - 01/26/05 06:31 PM

No kidding - nice mount Scott! Your lot looks interesting too - lots of room around you!

Regards,
Harley
---------
C6-
RGT


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #323367 - 01/26/05 07:03 PM

Quote:

No kidding - nice mount Scott! Your lot looks interesting too - lots of room around you!

Regards,
Harley
---------
C6-
RGT





That's the shot taken from the "Where the heck am I Star Party" back in last February..... I believe.

If my memory is correct then this is not his backyard

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #323401 - 01/26/05 07:36 PM

That is from the WITHAI star party - at my parents house (way off in the woods). Thanks Harley.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #323468 - 01/26/05 08:24 PM

So is my memory right or wrong?

Scott, you gotta let me know....I did an IQ test before and my score is only at 85pt and the test shows I am very stinky on short-term memory.

If you tell me I am right....I will be happy

If not....then....I don't want to live anymore

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #323474 - 01/26/05 08:26 PM

Keep on livin' Pollux. You got it right.

Who else has a pic of their C6R?

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #323488 - 01/26/05 08:38 PM Attachment (358 downloads)

Here's my C6R when I first got it last year, it's sitting just in front of my old C-102HD.

--------------------
"Ain't nothin' Human 'bout the Human Race"


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #323555 - 01/26/05 09:21 PM

Wow, so different in size (the C4 being placed further from the camera really makes it worse)

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #323827 - 01/27/05 03:14 AM

Agreed Pollux but there is a big difference in size and weight.

--------------------
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #323940 - 01/27/05 08:46 AM

Speaking of large size differences. I ran across a picture recently that will blow you away. Its a picture of a Meade 152ED with a TV102 mounted on top. The TV looks like a finder scope.

Its hard to realise how big a 6" refractor is until you see one in person. The Meade's have oversized tubes, so it is even more imposing.

When I get home from work I will try and get the picture and see if I can post it. When I first saw it, I was in disbelief.

--------------------
Donnie

Scopeless for a while now, too busy anyway.
About to change that!!
Wonderful wife.



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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Donnie]
      #323958 - 01/27/05 09:01 AM

I'd love to see that, Donnie!

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #324066 - 01/27/05 10:38 AM

Some sweet looking setups gentlemen! Chris' older pic represents my own scopes, except that his C102 is a blue Sky Watcher in my ballgame, the 6" "black beauties" are exactly the same. Mine rides on a EQ5 with yellow wooden tripod. No pics available, so use your imagination

--------------------
Sky-Watcher 102/1000 achromat
Orion XT8 (200/1200 dob)
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #324116 - 01/27/05 11:22 AM Attachment (321 downloads)

As mentioned before, this is a 152 ED with a TV102 mounted on it. Actually, mounted on a dual plate setup.

--------------------
Donnie

Scopeless for a while now, too busy anyway.
About to change that!!
Wonderful wife.



Edited by Donnie (01/27/05 11:24 AM)


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Donnie]
      #324117 - 01/27/05 11:24 AM

WOW

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tishovlin]
      #324486 - 01/27/05 05:57 PM

Tim,
You are right on about prices for CCD cameras going down in the future. Just ask anyone who bought a SBIG St7 about that. They saw the value drop by all most 50 percent in a very short time. This made those of us who were waiting to buy one very happy but let me tell you there were quit a few owners of this imager/camera who were very steamed. That is just the way it goes when it comes to electronic devices these days. They are all most obsolete before they hit the street!-poetic
Dan

--------------------
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: nemo]
      #324555 - 01/27/05 07:20 PM

Holy cow!

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #324753 - 01/27/05 10:00 PM

That 152ED/TV102 combo is making me drool.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


Edited by Scott Beith (01/27/05 10:59 PM)


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #324794 - 01/27/05 10:52 PM

Scott - you chopped an inch off the poor guys scope - 152/102.



That is a great combination though - wow.

Harley
-------------
C6-RGT


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #324801 - 01/27/05 10:58 PM

Sorry - I'm correcting it now...

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #326724 - 01/29/05 09:11 PM Attachment (370 downloads)

Here's a pic of my C6-RGT after the changes - note the higher balance point.

Harley
----------
C6-RGT
Nikon 8x42 Monarch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #326726 - 01/29/05 09:13 PM Attachment (322 downloads)

And here's a closeup of the Telrad mounting plate

Harley
---------
C6-RGT
Nikon 8x42 Monarch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #326727 - 01/29/05 09:14 PM Attachment (311 downloads)

And - just for Pollux - flames



Harley
---------
C6-RGT
Nikon 8x42 Monarch


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #326790 - 01/29/05 10:47 PM

Not affecting me at all. Sorry

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #326858 - 01/30/05 12:31 AM

come on Pollux - you know you like it - I expect to see flames on the Antares soon.



Harley
---------
C6-RGT
Nikon 8x42 Monarch


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #326870 - 01/30/05 01:05 AM

NOT A CHANCE MY BUD!

You will see the Sun rises from the west before you see me putting flame on my scope

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #327025 - 01/30/05 09:24 AM

Harley,

1st: That scope looks GREAT.

2nd: How do you like the Telrad?

3rd: Did you buy the mounting plate or make it yourself?

The balance point of your scope is much improved - well done grasshopper.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #327105 - 01/30/05 11:38 AM

Scott,

Thanks, the grasshopper learned from the master. (By the way, the flames are a joke for Pollux - I pulled a sticker off an one of my son's remote controlled trucks - but it does fit the yard cannon motif)



I REALLY love the Telrad - it's kind of boxy and wierd looking but functionally it's fantastic. It has changed the way I use the scope. Most of the time now I carefully orient the scope on the NCP and then run the "Quick Align" routine - that sets me up for good tracking. I use the GoTo, which will not be accurate, just to put me in the area quickly of what I want to see. Then I use the Telrad, with the handset buttons, to center the object. I can usually get things centered in a 12mm EP without even using the finder.

I bought a piece of cold rolled steel plate 3/8"x2.5"x8" from AllMetalsInc.com for $4 - they have a variety of sizes and are very nice people. The plate weighs 2# so it really helped with the balance. I drilled 4 holes in it - 2 for the rings and 2 for the Telrad, painted the plate with 3 coats of black paint and then baked it in the over for a few hours to harden the finish.

The scope had really been fun to use - for the price, the optics are excellent. Views 2 nights ago I was watching Saturn and was able to see the Cassini division, banding on the planet and 6 moons. I can see why you have enjoyed your 150 so much.

Regards,
Harley
-----------
C6-RGT
Nikon 8x42 Monarch


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #327112 - 01/30/05 11:51 AM

Thanks Harley,
I have been considering the addition of a Telrad to my setup.
From a value standpoint - not much will match a modern 6" achro. I am eventually going to add the Argo Navis DSC system to the Yard Cannon.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #328076 - 01/31/05 11:30 AM

Harley, looks great!

--------------------



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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Bill Grass]
      #328582 - 01/31/05 07:49 PM

Thanks Bill - it has provided many hours of fun.

Regards,
Harley


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #349358 - 02/19/05 12:14 PM

Tonight I am heading to sub-urban area and the weather seems to be fine (at least in the city, don't know about my destination)

My 6" hasn't been seriously used for over a few months and it's time to take it out!

Oh, by the way, I am thinking about turn the scope from white to titanium grey

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #349619 - 02/19/05 05:58 PM

Pollux,

Hope you get good weather - it has been frustrating here for the last few weeks - there are some clear moments some afternoons but clouds roll in each evening. I've had mine out a total of 20 minutes in the last 2-3 weeks.

Regards,


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #350684 - 02/20/05 06:48 PM

Last night was the little get-together of my church members. Went there with my yard canon.

The weather last night was clear but a little bit "shaky" due to the turbulance.

It's not very that bad. I rate it 3.75/5

I was managed to pump the power to 333X on Saturn. 400x started to getting blurry due to the not very stable air. Even that low power on M42, M45, M4, Double Cluster were good enough to be seen stably.

Everyone in the get-together was impressed with what they saw. They all love the way the scope looks. Well, it's because it looks tall. When the tripod is fully extened the dew cap of the scpe is about 6'7" high!

Tonight is still clear. This time will be heading to family get-together. This time I will be using the "Black Widow"

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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muckworm
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #356041 - 02/25/05 10:45 AM Attachment (310 downloads)

Here is what I have done with my humble c6rgt since i bought it last june. Comments/suggestions are welcome.

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badsnoopy
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: muckworm]
      #356151 - 02/25/05 12:44 PM

Muckworm, how is that setup working for you? Looks like you got a lot of equipment there. How are you pictures coming out? How much weight do you now have on the mount?
Thanks,
Robert

--------------------
Robert

TV Genesis SDF
Losmandy G11
10x14 Roll roof observatory
Lumenera SkyNyx 2-2m


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pollux

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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: muckworm]
      #356162 - 02/25/05 12:52 PM

muckworm

Can't the CG5 REALLY handle this amount of load??

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #356184 - 02/25/05 01:24 PM

WOWSERS - that is a setup - I second Pollux's concern though - the max load for the C5G mount is about 30# - I know my C6R alone with finders and EP is about 26# - do you hear the motors straining under the load?

I am just getting interested in astro-photography and would love to see some of the pictures you've taken.

Regards,


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #356190 - 02/25/05 01:31 PM

Pollux,

Glad you got some time out with the yard-cannon. The 6" refractors are a lot of fun to use and, like you say, very intimidating looking.

You must have have good skies - I still have not been able to get over about 200x without losing fine detail - the best view of Saturn was one night with a 9mm UO Ortho and a 2x barlow. My favorite view of M42 is the 13mm Nagler - I can see the 4 stars in the Trapezium easily but also catch enough of the object to really appreciate the nebulosity. The weather has been so bad for the last 2 months, that I have only found a few nights where I could grab some sky time.

By the way, what new scope did you get? The 100mm ED?

Regards,


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muckworm
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: badsnoopy]
      #356194 - 02/25/05 01:35 PM

i know i am pushing the limits of the mount but, so far, everything seems to be working just fine. i figure that if the cg5 can handle the load of the c11 (they always show the mount with an additional 11lb weight in the adds, so i figured the c11 must weigh a bit more than the stock refractor) then my setup isn't too bad. i only had to add a 5lb free weight to get balance in ra. the drives to not make any more noise than normal, though they were straining a bit before i removed the ankle weights i had near the ep (the ankle weights were on before i added the extra spotting scope and piggybacked camera). my images have been okay, but only when i use guidedog to autoguide. without autoguiding the periodic error is quite obvious on exposures of more than 4 or 5 minutes. i think a lot of the problems i have had with imaging have to do with poor collimation resulting from the stock focuser. i recently picked up a used burgess which should help. i havn't ruled out a chromacor II either.

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muckworm
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #356209 - 02/25/05 01:49 PM Attachment (298 downloads)

i will post some of my pictures once my slide scanner arrives. i think some of them turned out pretty good for a novice like me but i hope to have more success later on. i am not too concerned about the mount since it only represents a small fraction of my total investment so far (don't tell my wife i said that). i figure maybe my experiences might help the community really see how much load the cg5 can handle...i'll let you all know when i burn her up! seriously though, i know i've pushed it as far as posssible and, if anything, will reduce the weight over time. but so far so good. here is another view showing the connection to the pier and some of the toys i got to go with it...i am especially proud of the cordless gamepad which is attached to a camera strap using nothing more than two rubberbands. i wear it around my neck so i always have it ready.

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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: muckworm]
      #356384 - 02/25/05 04:58 PM

That is one serious astro-setup. Very nice!
How do you like the pier?

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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muckworm
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #356943 - 02/26/05 08:20 AM

thanks scott. the pier is a great thing to have. i actually didn't add it until after the observatory was mostly finished. i figured that it didn't really need to have a pad (like a deck pier would). just a 'root' that extended a few feet below ground level; striaght down. so, i simply cut a hole in the floor and used a post hole auger.

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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: muckworm]
      #356949 - 02/26/05 08:31 AM

You did a great job with that scope. Keep us informed of future changes and modifications.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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muckworm
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #357410 - 02/26/05 06:17 PM

thanks again for the encouragement. it helps. actually, i just got done installing the burgess focuser a couple hours ago. i had to mount the adapter plate onto the outside of the ota as the adapter was to large in diameter for the rgt. not the best way to do it, but it seemed to work just fine. i am not exactly clear on colimation, but i did put the stock colimation eyepiece into the diagonal once i had finished the install, turned the diagonal around 180deg and everything seemed to stay centered...so i assume it is okay. i will be heading out in an hour or so to try a star test but, again, this is not something that i feel overly confident doing. any advice on colimating and/or star testing this scope would be much appreciated. cheers,
ed


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tlogan6680
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: muckworm]
      #361737 - 03/02/05 06:42 PM

Hi Group,
re; Quick Align
Bought the C6-RGT as a replacement to my 80mm C-Firstscope, actually still use the 80mm most. Wish i had read this thread first. Anyway, it is a great scope, but i sometimes want to use it for a short amount of time, the manual says i can quick align and then use Realign feature to get better pointing accuracy. It says to pick a star, UNDU, ALIGN, then replace an existing aligned star, this is where i am confused, if i have not aligned it, how can i replace.......
thanks for any help

tom in sunny? CA
C6-RGT
80mm firstscope (26 y.o. with great optics)
7x50 Adlerblicks


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tlogan6680
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tlogan6680]
      #362767 - 03/03/05 04:40 PM

Hi Group
Forget the previous post, i figured out how to do a Quick Align-Realign. Good feature, for those that want to try it, do the Q.A., then pick a star from the list, like Rigel, let the scope slew to near it, Undo, Realign, Center the star, Enter, Align. Do this one more time to a 2nd star and the scope will be "on."
One more point, i am thankfull to "Hiker" for his detailed review. My scope tried to slew to an object by going thru one of the tripod legs!!! But i was closely watching it and pulled the plug-thanks Hiker.
Did get both "e" and "f" in the Trpazium last nite, so i am again happy with the scope
tom in sunny? CA
C6-RGT
80mm firstscope (26 y.o. with great optics)
7x50 Adlerblicks


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tlogan6680]
      #362814 - 03/03/05 05:29 PM

Tom,

Sunny CA - I wish . I's beeen overcast here something like 57 out of the last 60 days - clouds are back today but last night was great.

Glad to hear you caught the slew before any damage occurred - it happened to me once and I became very cautious when the scope was at a steep angle.

And thanks for the info about the realign - I'll try it next clear night - I often do a quick align and just use the tracking but it would be great to quickly bring the scope into a better alignment later in the evening.

Regards,


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tlogan6680
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #362872 - 03/03/05 06:29 PM

Hiker
One more thing, i also took your advice and got a better diagonal-WO 2 diag., and a Televue Plossel, can't believe the plossel that came with the scope did not even have Celestron's name on it. Tried Trapezium before these upgrades and the "e" star was barely visible-came and went, now with a good diagonal and a great eyepiece, much better, again thanx for your wonderfull review
cloudy tonite, but supposed to be a great weekend
tom in CA


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: tlogan6680]
      #362885 - 03/03/05 06:36 PM

Tom,

Great to hear - spring will be here soon and we'll have lots of nights to enjoy the scope.

Regards,


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alpha1
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #365656 - 03/06/05 03:18 PM

I am new to this forum and am looking into buying a new scope. It just so happens that I have been looking at this particular scope, only not the GT model. Can you verify some questions for me?
1. I live in a small town outside of a metropolitan area (Akron to the east, Cleveland to the north). The skies appear to be a mag 5 I believe, being able to make out Polaris and at least the top of the Little Dipper. Would this scope work well in this type of location?
2. I wish to observe the planets, binaries and DSOs. How well does this scope do with DSOs? Can you see M31 very well or do you need diverted sight? I realize that you would not see it exactly like a photograph (wouldn't that be neat?), but is it at least clear enough to make out the form?
3. Unfortunately I do not have an observatory for it to set in constantly. Would you say that even for its size it is portable? I would probably keep the OTA in my basement when not observing. I have a small storage shed that the mount can stay in.
4. I thought of getting a Dob (sorry I used that word), but the thought of collimating two mirrors scares the heck out of me. Does the C6R also have to be collimated and how?
I am sorry for asking these questions in this forum, but from reading all of your posts, I feel that I can get some honest and straight answers. If you ask a dealer he will tell you the answer that he wants you to hear. I have been looking for a while now, and have been narrowing it down some. I do intend to go to a star party that the local astronomy club is having next weekend to see what they have and maybe get a better idea.

Thanks

--------------------
Jim

12.5" Nightsky Truss Dob
Celestron C6R-GT (Big Yard Cannon)
Nighthawk (Baby Yard Cannon)
10" DSO (Big Boy)
17T14 Nagler (The Queen)
12T4 Nagler
24 Pan
4mm Radian
20 TV Plossel


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: alpha1]
      #365700 - 03/06/05 04:07 PM

Hi Alpha and welcome to Cloudy Nights,

I'll try to answer your questions:
1. My skies sound similar to yours - I live in a large suburban area and many nights can only catch a glimmer of Polaris.

2. I use the scope much as you described. I spend a lot of time with Saturn and Jupiter - some splitting doubles and some looking at the M list - particularly M42.

Saturn is beautiful in a 9mm EP or 7mm on a better good night. You will be able to see the Cassini Division clearly, banding on the planet and 4-6 moons on a given night. Views of Jupiter are similar - excellent detail on banding and 4 moons are easily seen. The moon is incredible - the full moon in an 18mm Ultima or crater detail along the terminator with a 7mm or 9mm EP.

I have not tried to locate M31 yet but spend time with M42 - in the 9mm EP you will be able to easily see the Trap and 4-6 stars depending on the conditions. With a 24mm Panoptic, the nebulosity is beautiful. I also can easily split Castor, Polaris, Rigel and others.

3. I keep mine in the family room and carry it outside in 4 pieces - tripod/mount then weights then OTA then battery and chair. The scope is large but no pieces weigh over about 26# - it might be intimidating though to carry it up from the basement - the OTA is over 4' long and a bit unweildy - I carry mine carefuly by the dovetail.

4. I have never colimated mine - one of the things I like about it is the quick setup - I have 3 kids and a hectic schedule - but I can carry it outside at 9:30 and be ready in 10 minutes, observe for 45 minutes then have it put away in another 5. No colimation or cooldown issues though it would probably benefit somewhat from 20-30 minutes to cooldown.

You will experience some CA on bright objects - a bit on Saturn and Jupiter and more on the full moon or bright stars like Sirius. The Fringe Killer helps a lot - but there is still some there - you can also use the aperture mask to reduce it more - it bothers some people and others ignore it. You won't have any on the DSOs.

Overall, I think the scope/mount are an excellent bargain - the mount is very stable for visual use and the scope will provide you with hours of enjoyment. One option you might consider is I understand that Celestron is now offering their smaller 100 ED scope on the same mount - it might be easier to carry and will have less CA at the cost of some light gathering ability.

Regards,


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alpha1
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #365728 - 03/06/05 04:31 PM

Harley,

In your opinion, is the C6R a good scope for DSOs? On Astronomics web site they claim it is good. However I need to know from an owner. Have you been able to see any galaxies?
In regards to balancing the scope higher, is the dew shield pretty heavy? Would you be able to make one out of styrene plastic? This could be lighter, thus enabling you to move the scope up. Also on the Orion web site they have an extension that is about 8 1/2" long besides the 16" extension for mounts.
I do agree with you on the scope's worth. I think it is a very good value. I just worry too much about making sure that it satisfies my needs.

Thanks

--------------------
Jim

12.5" Nightsky Truss Dob
Celestron C6R-GT (Big Yard Cannon)
Nighthawk (Baby Yard Cannon)
10" DSO (Big Boy)
17T14 Nagler (The Queen)
12T4 Nagler
24 Pan
4mm Radian
20 TV Plossel


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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: alpha1]
      #365797 - 03/06/05 05:35 PM

Alpha,
It works nicely on DSO's. It is fantastic on Open Clusters - and it performs nicely on all other types of DSO's. Astrozap makes a flexible plastic dewshield for the C6R (CR150). It is felt lined to absorb stray light and it is very lightweight.
I use my CR150 as my DSO scope. I have been very happy with the performance so far. I have never needed to collimate my scope.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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Chris G
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #365877 - 03/06/05 06:36 PM

M31 is visible directly from my light polluted skies.

--------------------
"Ain't nothin' Human 'bout the Human Race"


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Refractor6
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Chris G]
      #365934 - 03/06/05 07:38 PM

Galaxy's are quite good from a dark site in my 6" Skywatcher especially with my Orion{Vixen}Superwide eps. I've had great views of M81+M82,M51,M31+M32+M110,M33 as some examples, Good contrast and sharp resolution make up for it's smaller aperature for DSO at a dark site.


-----------

Stan

Skywatcher 150 f/8 /Burgess 200A
Antares 127 f/6.45 /Moonlite CF1-AR5
Skywatcher ED80
Celestron/Vixen Premium 80
Orion 9x63+15x63 mini giant binoculars


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: Refractor6]
      #366059 - 03/06/05 09:05 PM

Alpha,

Re the extension - after making the changes I noted, the balance point is high enough that I can view any point in the sky from a Starbound chair using a right angle finder and 90 degree diagonal.

A few weeks ago I ordered the Orion 16" extension but returned it - it was very heavy, and the bottom plate was pretty much flat (didn't go into the mount) so it barely caught the threaded rod. I think the 8 1/2" extension is for the heavier Atlas mount. I have a machinest making me a custom 6" extension in his spare time but the scope works fine without it with the balance changes.

As far as what you can see, I'll second that the scope works well - I caught M42, 44, 45, 81 and 82 last night - don't expect the views to look anything like the pictures but the stars are crisp and sharp and the scope has very decent light gathering ability.

Regards,


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LesB
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #369632 - 03/09/05 11:03 PM

Even if you're not buying a C6-RGT your post is a great reference for the accessories and other considerations necesary for choosing for a Newt, SCT, MAK, as well as a refractor.

You've touched a few observing issues when talking about observing near the zenith, including ergonomics. You may have created a new template for reviewing astro-optics and maybe a new category: Universal Reference Review for Telescopes. URRT.

--------------------
"The genius of humanity is to establish an identity which lies at an ever-increasing distance from our organic nature." Ray Tallis


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: LesB]
      #369711 - 03/10/05 12:57 AM

Les,

Thanks for the kind words - I'm glad to hear that there's some value in the info. I put it together to try to help other newbies get answers to some common questions - I know I felt kind of lost the first few weeks and I was reading hundres of posts trying to figure out how to get started.

Regards,


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JayKSC
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: ]
      #370022 - 03/10/05 11:23 AM

Quote:

Les,

Thanks for the kind words - I'm glad to hear that there's some value in the info. I put it together to try to help other newbies get answers to some common questions - I know I felt kind of lost the first few weeks and I was reading hundres of posts trying to figure out how to get started.

Regards,




This topic hasn't been useful only for "newbies" - I'm taking delivery of a new C6-RGT within the next few days, and have greatly appreciated this discussion to better know what I've gotten myself into. It's been years since I used a computerized scope, and then I've never personally owned a refractor over 4-inches aperture.

Thank you!

Jay
KSC FL

--------------------
Refractor manic.


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scope? new [Re: JayKSC]
      #370168 - 03/10/05 02:14 PM

Jay,

Thanks for the feedback - it's great to hear that folks are finding the info useful. I'll post an update in early April with some addl info on a mount extension and my first attempts to take photos through the scope.

Regards,


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pollux

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Posts: 6539
Loc: Vancouver Canada
Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #370200 - 03/10/05 02:49 PM

Maybe I should take my 6" Antares out to a super dark site whenever I have a chance.

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #370256 - 03/10/05 03:35 PM

Pollux,

Absolutely - you're young and single - so take advantage of your free time while you can......I have only been able to use the scope on the planets, double stars and clusters from my suburban yard - but it would be interesting to view some of the galaxies from a very dark site one of these days.

Regards,


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pollux

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Posts: 6539
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: ]
      #370274 - 03/10/05 03:46 PM

I am not young anymore.....

What makes me scared is that I still don't have a REAL JOB!

--------------------
Pentax 105SDP Apo Refractor
Vixen VMC260L Modified Mak-Cassegrain
Entire Pentax XW & XF eyepiece series

Personal Web Site

Telescope Comics


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #370340 - 03/10/05 04:57 PM

The job thing is a tough one - with your graphics skills and web design experience, I would imagine you could land a job with one of a 100 large firms in Vancouver - if you decided that the corporate life was for you - and that's an individual decision for each person. If not, then there should still be good opportunities for consulting - less reliable but more satisfying for most people.

I have done both over the last 30 years - I enjoyed the consulting more but it was a bit more nerve-wracking with 3 kids to support. Unfortunately, sometimes the corp life is also unpredictable. I have been working for an acquisition target 4 times in the last few years and each time watched my job either be eliminated or move to the East coast.

Best of luck,


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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT As Your First Scop new [Re: pollux]
      #370608 - 03/10/05 10:53 PM

Quote:

I am not young anymore.....

What makes me scared is that I still don't have a REAL JOB!




Been there, done that. I know how you're feeling. (I'm in the computer biz too.)

Best of luck...

--------------------
www.flemingastrophotography.com
Brilliant diamonds in pea soup


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Anonymous
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT (UPDATE) new [Re: Hoser]
      #385428 - 03/25/05 02:40 AM

Ask almost anybody thinking about buying their first scope how they intend to use it and they almost always say the same thing - "Well, I want to look at the moon and planets, and see DSOs - and oh yeah, I also want to use it to take photos and by the way, it should cost under $1000". I know because I said the same things myself several months ago. The reality, of course, is that it is difficult to find one scope that does everything well, particularly when dealing with a restrictive budget. After weeks of research, I ended up with the C6-R and hoped that it would handle each of the 3 areas I was interested in an acceptable manner. Well, after owning the scope for 4 months, I decided to take a few moments and record my latest thoughts:

C6R OTA
Overall, the scope has performed quite well and fully meets my expectations for a 6" achromatic refractor. I have spent dozens of enjoyable hours out under the stars (between the never-ending rain clouds) and have memorable views of the moon though it's various phases, Saturn's rings, Jupiter's bands, M42, M45 and a number of globular clusters. I have also split many close doubles and have spent hours examining craters, searching for faint stars in the trapezium and locating tiny moons around Saturn. CA is present but well controlled by a filter - the only times I really notice it are on Jupiter, the full moon and splitting doubles on bright stars like Rigel. Crater detail on a waxing or waning moon is breathtaking and stars generally resolve into tiny pinpoint white dots.

AS-GT Mount
The AS-GT mount has also fully met my expectations. The 2" steel legs on the tripod are very steady and the scope settles down in a couple seconds after a bump. I experienced some initial difficulties with gotos but, as I suspected, they were my fault, not the mount's. Be sure to carefully level the mount, align on Polaris and enter a precise time - stars will rotate out of the selected location if you are off by a minute or so due to the natural rotation of the earth. I also found that an illuminated reticle EP is a worthwhile investment - since acquiring a 10mm, my gotos have been flawless and every object appears close to center in a 13mm Nagler.

I also confirmed that the mount does learn. The first night after a reset, the scope will miss the alignment stars by a wide margin. By the second night, the mount will learn how much adjustment was required on the previous night and will be much closer to the alignment stars. By the third night, the alignment stars are nearly centered. If you make an error and have a bad alignment, I found it helpful to use the menu "reset" command to clear the computer's memory. Please be aware though that you will have to re-enter the site and date/time information.

Finally, the tracking is excellent. Although I don't recommend it, I have left the mount tracking and gone out to dinner - returning to the back yard a hour or so later, the object was still in the EP. WARNING - if you leave the scope on, ALWAYS be aware of the scope's projected path so that it doesn't accidently contact a leg. I only do this on objects well below zenith.

One final note - do yourself a favor and get a new power cord. Scopestuff sells a heavy coiled cord just long enough to reach from a Powertank to the mount - $12.00 including shipping - fused auto-adapter on one end and Celestron plug on the other - even has a red led on the auto-adapter to confirm the cord is getting power. Well worth the money!

Astrophotography
Besides enjoying time at the eyepiece, one of the main reasons I purchased the scope was to dabble in astrophotography. I am pleased to report that it is possible to take very nice photos using the scope BUT it does have its limitations:

1. Weight
In general, a scope used for astrophotography should weigh less than 50% of mount capacity to minimize jitter - the C6R exceeds that recommended limit by a wide margin. As a result, there is some jitter on exposures over 2 minutes long.

2. Chromatic Aberration
Yes, CA is a problem on bright objects. While you may not notice the CA when using the scope visually, the blue fringe will be quite evident in a long exposure. For example, on a 2 minute exposure, bright stars will have a broad blue band around them whose width is equal to approximately 50% of the star's diameter. Fortunately, much of it can be adjusted away in post-processing using Photoshop CS or Elements.

3. Aperture
At F8, the scope is fairly slow for photographic use. As a result, longer exposures will be required and the FOV will be smaller than a faster scope.

Limitations aside, taking photos through the scope is quite enjoyable. I do not have a webcam so I have not attempted to photograph Saturn or Jupiter but have taken numerous pictures of the moon, globular clusters, M42 and star groupings using a Nikon D70 DSLR. A few examples can be found at this link:
http://www.cloudynights.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=6252&cat=500

If you decide to go forward with photography, take a few minutes to read this article on the Televue site - it explains in easy to understand language the various ways to connect a camera to your scope.
http://www.televue.com/engine/page.asp?ID=236

Prime Focus
The telescope acts as approximately a 40x lens (1200mm flocal length / ~30mm chip diagonal) - the exact magnification will depend on the diagonal measurement of your CMOS or CCD (figure 43mm for 35mm film). To attach a SLR or DSLR, you will need a T-adapter and T-ring. NOTE: Not all T-adapters will fit the Mercury Systems visual back - I found that the WO T-adapter is machined to exactly the same size as the WO 2" diagonal and fits perfectly. Add a Celestron T-ring for your specific camera and you are good to go. To achieve higher magifications, replace the T-adapter with a TV 2x or 4x Powermate with a T-adapter ring attached.

Afocal Imaging
One of the problems attaching a camera for prime focus photography is the fixed magnification. Since I have a growing selection of high-quality EP's, I have been looking for a way to take photos through the EP at various magnifications. I have had good results holding a small digital camera to an 18mm Ultima but have had much less success taking pictures through various Naglers. Although I have not tried it yet, Scopetronix makes a product called Maxview II which allows any EP to be attached to the camera. Quality of results unknown.

Software
I'm not going to go into any detail on software packages used in astro-photography. Suffice it to say, 50% of any astro-photo is done at the camera - the rest is done at the computer. Expensive to purchase, Photoshop CS is the most popular software for photo-editing. The package has a steep learning curve but allows near total control over all aspects of the final image. I elected to purchase the less costly Photoshop Elements. Although less full-featured, the software was only $80 and reads the Nikon NEF raw format. Lots of good tutorials are available on the web for both packages.

Starbound Chair
This chair is fantastic - very comfortable and adjusts easily to any height - a must with a large refractor since the viewing positions cover such a wide range of heights. The only flaw is that the rubber feet on the chair need to be replaced every 2-3 months - the steel tube pushes through the rubber long before the rubber wears out. Fortunately, Ace Hardware in my area sells exactly the same feet - buy those made for 7/8" tubing - about $0.65/each. The feet will last much longer if you put a steel washer in the rubber feet before installing them. Buy a 1" OD steel washer and press it into the bottom of the rubber feet with a screwdriver - the washer will prevent the tube-end from cutting the rubber.

Mount Extension
The default low viewing position of the C6R-GT is one of the weak points of the package. Adding a WO diagonal, 2" brass focus knobs and Telrad mounting plate helped a great deal but I have continued exploring ways to raise the raise the viewing position. I ordered the Orion 16" extension for the Skyview Pro mount but returned it a few days later - although it did mate reasonably well to the AS-GT mount and was very well made, it was too heavy, too long, had an overly-large azimuth bolt alignment hole and had a fairly flat bottom that barely engaged the tripod bolt.

I recently located a company named Astrosky that agreed to machine a similar extension in a shorter length (see picture in gallery link above).

The Positives:
The entire unit is 7" long and weighs about 3#. The end caps are well machined and mate well with the mount and tripod. The bottom end cap extends 3/8" into the tripod and engages approximately 8 threads of the tripod bolt. The top cap includes an Allen-head bolt with 2 washers and engages the bottom of the mount by 7-8 threads. Overall the quality of the machine work seems good - the caps fit tightly in the pipe and mate snugly with the tripod and mount. The caps are attached to the 4" pipe with 3 Allen-head screws on each end.

The unit feels very solid when installed and height is sufficient (with the other balance changes I made earlier) to prevent the scope from hitting the tripod legs when viewing at zenith. With the extension, I find that I am able to pull-in the lower leg extensions by approximately half of their length and still view objects directly overhead while seated in a Starbound chair. The mount doesn't feel tippy and seems quite stable with a 6" refractor installed.

Minor Quibbles:
(1) the bottom cap was manufactured much like the Orion bottom cap and the azimuth receiver hole is much wider than the peg - this allows the entire extension to twist slightly and could throw off a polar alignment if it shifted in use.

(2) the aluminum tube is painted a flat black - it actually looks kind of cool with the aluminum edges on the caps showing but doesn't match the pebbled finish on the tripod and mount.

Overall, the extension serves its purpose and is a bargain at a cost of around $60. James at Astrosky was good to work with and communicated well during the transaction.

Conclusion
The C6R-GT fully meets my expectations. The scope introduced me to a whole new world of astronomical observing and astro-photography - it has been a joy to use and great fun to modify. Although I intend to hold onto the scope for the next few years for visual use, I am planning to supplement it this year with an 80mm APO to expand my interest in astro-photography and allow me to take a scope on the road. Long-term who knows - at present I am thinking that the perfect combination may be an 80mm APO for travel and photography and a 12" DOB with Zambuto glass to reach those elusive DSOs.

Regards,


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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT (UPDATE) new [Re: ]
      #385484 - 03/25/05 06:25 AM

Harley,
Excellent followup on what has become a very informative thread. Great photos by the way.

--------------------
Scott
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy


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badsnoopy
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Re: Thinking of Buying a C6-RGT (UPDATE) new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #385621 - 03/25/05 10:59 AM

Very nice follow up Harley. Sums up the scope pretty well. Get the SV.