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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96
      #3142919 - 06/03/09 01:44 AM Attachment (15 downloads)

Among all the bright and flashy DSOs in Cygnus, the supernova remnant SNR G065.3+05.7 largely gets ignored, partly for its flashy neighbors, but mostly for its faintness. This ancient, faint, and very large supernova remnant has three segments which were bright enough to make it into the Sharpless catalog as Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96; however, none of these segments made it into either Uranometria or Megastar.

I was first alerted to the existence of this object (most specifically, the Sh2-91 filament of SNR G065.3+05.7) on the Cloudynights forums by Steve Gottileb (thanks Steve!) in October 2007, shortly thereafter observing Sh2-91 under the dark skies of south Alabama. I found Sh2-91 *fairly* easy to see with an OIII filter in my 18” Obsession.

Objects like Sh2-91, Sh2-119, Sh2-216, Sh2-308- all very observable nebulae that are completely left out of Megastar and Uranometria- finally convinced me to go through and find images of all Sharpless nebulae, trying to find more hidden “gems”. In my search, I found out about the Sh2-94 and Sh2-96 segments of SNR G065.3+05.7, and first searched for those segments visually in June 2008 from the dark skies of the Davis Mountains in West Texas with my 25” dob. I was only able to pick up vague hints of Sh2-94, and no sign of Sh2-96.

This year in my observing trip to the Davis Mountains, I resolved to give SNR G065.3+05.7 another try. My last night of observing was May 31/June 1, and as the moon set in the early morning hours, the skies darkened beautifully. An incredibly detailed Milky Way sprawled overhead as I turned my 25” dob to the southern Cygnus abode of SNR G065.3+05.7.

I started my survey of SNR G065.3+05.7 by reobserving the Sh2-91 segments. Beginning just southeast of phi Cygni, I was able to pick up a fairly easy, very thin streak running roughly east-west using a 27mm Panoptic (100X) and OIII filter. This streak ran about 20’ in length, just north of the stars SAO 87517 and SAO 87498, before dissolving into invisibility just to the northwest of SAO 87498. This segment was brightest on the eastern end, and slowly faded from view towards the western end. While on the eastern end, this streak was clearly nebulous, on the western end, where it dissolved into invisibility, it almost looked as if the stars were somehow linked together. For lack of knowing a better word, I will call this visual impression of linked stars “star chains” as per the precedence set by a few other observing reports of similar objects I have read. It’s hard to describe, but basically, the visual impression of “star chains” happens when a very faint, filamentry nebula is located in a rich star field. Does anyone know of a better term for this?

A degree to the west, I was able to see another segment Sh2-91. Just to northeast of 9 Cygni, I could see the star chains beginning again, and the star chains turned into full nebulosity beginning just to the north of 9 Cygni. This streak started out thick, but quickly tapered down to a very thin, and fairly bright filament that terminated just short of the star SAO 87308. Along the way, a “star chain” broke off the north side of the streak, also terminating just short of SAO 87308, giving the western end of the streak a forked appearance.

The exact locations where I saw these streaks is shown in the chart below. This chart was created using Megastar 5, with the nebula drawn in using MS Paint. Solid lines represent areas clearly seen as nebulous, while dotted lines indicate star chains. Also, a great image of Sh2-91 can be seen at the following link:
http://deanrowe.net/astro/image.jsp?panel=images/sh2_91&image=2
Nice image Dean!


--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos

Edited by tatarjj (06/03/09 01:50 AM)


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3142924 - 06/03/09 01:46 AM Attachment (12 downloads)

After observing Sh2-91, I moved on to the next most challenging (as judged by the brightness of these filaments on POSS images) filament, Sh2-94. This filament is located at roughly 19h 28m +31 30’ near the Cygnus/Lyra border. Starting with 27mm Panoptic unfiltered, nothing was seen of course. However, as soon as the OIII was inserted, I was excited to see that a long, N-S oriented streak of light was immediately visible! This streak was seen to run from 19h 28m +31 35’ down to about 19h 27.5m +31 18’. Its appearance was roughly a cross between star chains and actual nebulosity. On the northern end it appeared the brightest, fully looking like nebulosity. A POSSII Red image acquired with the SIMBAD astronomical database (http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/) is shown below, with the section seen circled, and the brightest section seen double circled. For some reason, even though it is clearly seen on the POSSII image that the filament continues northward for several more arcminutes, this part of the filament was not seen visually- perhaps due to stellar interference, but who knows exactly.

--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3142925 - 06/03/09 01:47 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

The last major segment(s) of SNR G065.3+05.7 (that I know of!) is Sh2-96. Like Sh2-91, there seem to be a couple different filaments in Sh2-96. Starting with the 27mm unfiltered, nothing was visible- no hints of any star chains. For the first minute or so after inserting the OIII filter, nothing was visible, but then I momentarily detected a short streak of light about 6’ long by 1’ wide oriented E-W. Focusing in on that area, I found that I was able to hold the streak of light about 75% of the time in adverted vision. The streak was faint enough that it would have been a “star chain” had it been in a more densely populated area, but the relative lack of bright stars superimposed on/in/under the streak made it appear mostly nebulous. When I checked with my POSSII finder chart, I found that the streak I was seeing perfectly aligned with the brightest filament of Sh2-96! I jumped for joy. The streak I observed is circled in the POSSII image I acquired using SIMBAD, shown below. It runs from roughly 19h 28.5m +32 18’ to 19h 27.8m +32 17’.

--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3142926 - 06/03/09 01:48 AM

It was very satisfying to cap off my West Texas trip by bagging a target I had been partially unsuccessful with last year. What made the difference? Better transparency? I had my mirror recoated this year- the coating I was using last year scattered a tiny bit of green light. Could better coatings have made the difference?

After observing a few more faint targets, I capped off my vacation by spending the last 45 minutes just letting myself get lost in the countless tangled filaments of Cygnus’ better known SNR, the Veil nebula. What a treat!

--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8797
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3142945 - 06/03/09 02:21 AM

At last years Nebraska Star Party, I ran into Sh2-91 by accident when I was using Dragan Niken's 25 inch Obsession. We were trying for Minkowski's Footprint (M1-92), when I lost it and started panning around to re-acquire the field. I abruptly ran into the faint filamentary band of Sh2-91 using the OIII filter and while it was faint, it was quite obvious. Like you, I was a little surprised that it wasn't in Megastar (it *is* now, since I added it), but even after getting back to my motel room, it took a while to locate this object on the DSS charts. I tried it in my 9.25 inch SCT and did not see it, so it is probably understandable that such a faint SNR didn't make it into many print or electronic atlases. Clear skies to you.

--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3142961 - 06/03/09 02:49 AM

David,
This may be a very faint SNR, but it's alot brighter than Simeis 147 (at least the Sh2-91 part), and Simeis 147 even made it into the Peterson Field Guide (quite undeservably so). Sh2-91 really should have made it into alot more atlases. I don't quite understand it myself, other than perhaps someone, long ago, decided that it was too faint to include in some atlas, and all future atlases followed their lead. Some objects get way more attention than they deserve, and others get way less, I guess.

It must have been pretty cool to just randomly run across Sh2-91. I was wondering what the minimum aperture for it might be, and I was thinking perhaps 12"- but still, specific portions of Sh2-91 are so bright I might have thought they could be visible in even smaller scopes. Guess not.

Edited by tatarjj (06/03/09 02:50 AM)


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8797
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3144290 - 06/03/09 07:15 PM

Quote:

David,
This may be a very faint SNR, but it's alot brighter than Simeis 147 (at least the Sh2-91 part), and Simeis 147 even made it into the Peterson Field Guide (quite undeservably so). Sh2-91 really should have made it into alot more atlases. I don't quite understand it myself, other than perhaps someone, long ago, decided that it was too faint to include in some atlas, and all future atlases followed their lead. Some objects get way more attention than they deserve, and others get way less, I guess.

It must have been pretty cool to just randomly run across Sh2-91. I was wondering what the minimum aperture for it might be, and I was thinking perhaps 12"- but still, specific portions of Sh2-91 are so bright I might have thought they could be visible in even smaller scopes. Guess not.




I have seen (barely) sections of Simeis 147 in an 8 inch f/5, but cannot see Sh2-91 in that same scope. Simmeis 147 is considerably better known that Sh2-91, as it is larger and often shows up on may common wide-field color astro-images of the area. Most color images of southern Cygnus don't show much of Sh2-91 unless they are specifically targeted to the object. I have heard of Sh2-91 being seen in a 17 inch, but the descriptions generally use the term "very faint" to describe it. In any case, I still maintain that is is quite understandable that Sh2-91 is not present in many of the common atlases today. There are a lot of objects which "missed the cut" for the various atlases, so no atlas can be considered complete on the faint end of things. I am less disturbed by Sh2-91's exclusion than I am of something that *is* visible in a modest aperture like Sh2-308 in Canis Major, which I logged in my 9.25 inch SCT. I think that one is one you (or someone else here on CN) had to tell me about. Clear skies to you.


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sgottlieb
sage


Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 389
Loc: SF Bay area
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3144822 - 06/04/09 01:14 AM

John, I was hoping you'd start posting observing reports using your 25" and your survey of the Corona Borealis cluster and the "other" Cygnus supernova are ground breakers on these objects! The finder charts really help if others want give these challenging objects a try. Keep them coming!

--------------------
Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3146013 - 06/04/09 05:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

David,
This may be a very faint SNR, but it's alot brighter than Simeis 147 (at least the Sh2-91 part), and Simeis 147 even made it into the Peterson Field Guide (quite undeservably so). Sh2-91 really should have made it into alot more atlases. I don't quite understand it myself, other than perhaps someone, long ago, decided that it was too faint to include in some atlas, and all future atlases followed their lead. Some objects get way more attention than they deserve, and others get way less, I guess.

It must have been pretty cool to just randomly run across Sh2-91. I was wondering what the minimum aperture for it might be, and I was thinking perhaps 12"- but still, specific portions of Sh2-91 are so bright I might have thought they could be visible in even smaller scopes. Guess not.




I have seen (barely) sections of Simeis 147 in an 8 inch f/5, but cannot see Sh2-91 in that same scope. Simmeis 147 is considerably better known that Sh2-91, as it is larger and often shows up on may common wide-field color astro-images of the area. Most color images of southern Cygnus don't show much of Sh2-91 unless they are specifically targeted to the object. I have heard of Sh2-91 being seen in a 17 inch, but the descriptions generally use the term "very faint" to describe it. In any case, I still maintain that is is quite understandable that Sh2-91 is not present in many of the common atlases today. There are a lot of objects which "missed the cut" for the various atlases, so no atlas can be considered complete on the faint end of things. I am less disturbed by Sh2-91's exclusion than I am of something that *is* visible in a modest aperture like Sh2-308 in Canis Major, which I logged in my 9.25 inch SCT. I think that one is one you (or someone else here on CN) had to tell me about. Clear skies to you.




David,
That's VERY impressive that you have seen ANY part of Simeis 147 in ANY sized scope. It is one of the toughest objects in the sky for me for some reason. In about six years of attempts- maybe about 6 hours of attempts every winter- the best I have done with it is easily detecting ONE piece, while every other area of it has been incredibly difficult. Meanwhile, I found Sh2-91 pretty easy with my 18" scope. I think it's interesting that observers can have such different experiences on the same objects.

I think it may have been me that told you about Sh2-308, but I think it was Steve Gottileb that I heard of it from. As I said, after Sh2-308, Sh2-119, Sh2-216, Sh2-91, I just gave up on trusting Uranometria/Megastar and created finder charts for every single Sharpless object that looked like there was even a slight possibility of being observable. I did find a few more "hidden" gems, such as the huge, nearly circumpolar planetary nebula Sh2-174 (very easy to see with even some structure visible). Sh2-174 IS plotted on Megastar (not U2000) so you may have heard of it.

--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos

Edited by tatarjj (06/04/09 05:37 PM)


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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1312
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: sgottlieb]
      #3146061 - 06/04/09 06:08 PM

Quote:

John, I was hoping you'd start posting observing reports using your 25" and your survey of the Corona Borealis cluster and the "other" Cygnus supernova are ground breakers on these objects! The finder charts really help if others want give these challenging objects a try. Keep them coming!




Thanks Steve. I would be really surprised if any of these observations were "ground breaking"- I'm pretty sure they have been done before, and better. BUT they were very satisfying observations to make. I DO have a ton more observations to post though... it's not going to be fun typing them all up.

--------------------
John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos


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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3146635 - 06/05/09 12:38 AM

Sh2-174 looks like an interesting target to go after. As a matter fact, that whole Sharpless Catalog looks very tempting.

Here's a nice Sharpless Catalog website that list some great information on the best of the Sh objects. Enjoy!

--------------------
Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow




Local Site


Clear Skies?



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JakeSaloranta
sage


Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: tatarjj]
      #3146735 - 06/05/09 03:16 AM

Quote:

That's VERY impressive that you have seen ANY part of Simeis 147 in ANY sized scope. It is one of the toughest objects in the sky for me for some reason.




I've seen a bunch of reports of Simeis 147 seen with a 4" telescope with filters. Low power, crispy dark skies and knowing what to look are in my mind more important than aperture.

/Jake

--------------------
4.7" (F6) Sky-Watcher "Pepe"
4.1" Tal-1 (random access)

My name is George. I am unemployed and I live with my parents. - George Costanza


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HfxObserver
scholastic sledgehammer
***

Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 872
Loc: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: SNR G065.3+05.7: Sh2-91, Sh2-94, and Sh2-96 new [Re: JakeSaloranta]
      #3151491 - 06/07/09 11:41 PM

Thanks for the suggestion I'll definitely try for some of these objects.

I've detected Simeis 147 in my 5-inch, I need to go after it again when the Zodiacal light isn't an issue. But I could see a large glow with my OIII and trace out one of the brighter streamers. This is one of those objects I'll need to acquire as it rises in order to get the best view.

I quick search netted this page where the author discusses his observation of Sh2-119 in 22X100's.

http://www.ottawa-rasc.ca/challenges/aug2007/index.html

-Chris

--------------------
Chris
7X50 Vixen,22X100 Antares
80mm William Optics Megrez II ED
Santel MK6
Borg 125SD f6 (Pentax/Oasis version)
Tak-Lapides
Pentax XW's 40,20,14,10,3.5, 5mm XO,3.8XP, Speers 5-8, 30mm Widescan III


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