Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
beachchairbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 508
|
|
Joe,
You seem to have a few IS bins and the Garrett 28x100 Signature, would you prefer another IS at a heigher mag or a 40x100 bin to add to your collection.
BB
|
Ohioastro
member
Reged: 06/12/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Ohio
|
|
Hello all
I am pretty sure I've found my best binoculars.
They are the 15X50 Canon Image Stabilized, I was sure when I turned them on M81 and M82 very good, and thier exit pupil and field of view are very goob, if anyone else buys a pair I reccomend Lithium batteries they last the best.
Cleaar Skies
--------------------
NGT 12.5 f4.5 Nova
Canon 15X50 IS
Apogee 12X60 green filter
TV 31mm Ng 5
TV 7mm NG 6
TV 10mm Radian
TV 2x 2'' powermate
|
Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
|
|
Quote:
Joe,
You seem to have a few IS bins and the Garrett 28x100 Signature, would you prefer another IS at a heigher mag or a 40x100 bin to add to your collection.
BB
I am satisfied with what I have now since I use my Denk II with PowerX Switch in .66x focal reducer mode with my myriad of scopes at 40x and above. Looking at the moon with a pair of 13mm Ethos in .66x focal reducer mode with my C6 or C9.25 is fantastic. The XT10 also works well with the Denk II but it is hard to balance with heavy eyepieces. I don't have any desire for a handheld IS binocular larger than my 15x50 IS.
Joe
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
|
doctordub
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 1024
Loc: New Rochelle, New York
|
|
A Canon 15X60 IS that weighed < 2lbs, or a 20X70 IS that weighed < 3lbs.
PS and under $1,000.00
CS
--------------------
Jonathan
TeleVue TV102 on a Vixen Sphinx SXW mount
Meade LX200 10" SCT EMC on LXD55 with Pier
Jason Monolux 60mm F11 Achromat
Canon 15x50 IS
Minox BD 15X58 ED BR
Celestron Regal 8X42 LX
Olympus E-510, Zuiko 14-42, & 40-150
Meade DSI, LPI, Eep Orion color Eep
TeleVue Binovue, barlow,filters, & eps
Siebert Power Mag wheel
ASUS Eee PC
|
beachchairbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 508
|
|
Jonathan,
Thanks for the comments, however, why only a 15x60? I like your idea of a 20x70 IS for under $1,000.00. The only one that comes close is the Zeiss 20x60 for $5,600.00. You would think by now that someone would have cloned the Zeiss for a price that everyone could jump in on.
Beachchairbill
|
doctordub
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 1024
Loc: New Rochelle, New York
|
|
Beachchairbill,
My 15x50IS binos are my Travel Astrogear and serve me very well. The only improvement I could see is to add more aperature and make them lighter.
CS
--------------------
Jonathan
TeleVue TV102 on a Vixen Sphinx SXW mount
Meade LX200 10" SCT EMC on LXD55 with Pier
Jason Monolux 60mm F11 Achromat
Canon 15x50 IS
Minox BD 15X58 ED BR
Celestron Regal 8X42 LX
Olympus E-510, Zuiko 14-42, & 40-150
Meade DSI, LPI, Eep Orion color Eep
TeleVue Binovue, barlow,filters, & eps
Siebert Power Mag wheel
ASUS Eee PC
|
JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 197
Loc: France
|
|
My dream binoculars would have :
- true apo objective lenses, with the same quality as astronomical refractors
- f/6 focal ratio
- 45° angled focusers
- correctly oriented image in both vertical and horizontal directions, like in all binoculars
- 1.25" focusers, compatible with astronomical eyepieces
With such features, the binoculars would be suitable both for terrestrial and astronomical viewing. With a pair of 24 mm Panoptics, the exit pupil would be 4 mm, the best choice for binoculars in my opinion. Small exit pupils, for example 2 mm, have little interest in binoculars : a refractor with a binoviewer is better for high magnifications.
Here is another way to explain my wishes :
- the Kowa Highlander, but compatible with astronomical eyepieces
- or the GT 100 45°, but with really high quality apo objectives
I don't expect a low price for such binoculars. But I don't understand why they are not made by any company. Technically, it is perfectly feasible.
The products that match the best my wishes are the binoscopes made by Binoptic in Germany :
http://www.binoptic.de/frames.html
But with 90° angled focusers, and a right/left inverted image, they are not ideal for terrestrial viewing.
Jean-Charles
|
GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1740
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
Jean-Charles,
You mentioned The Garrett GT100/45°... I wondered just how good the ED glass would be in the new APM 100/45°? I have the GT100/45°and find them very good for the price point.
--------------------
Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
|
Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
|
|
Jean-Charles, I agree with the specs of your "dream" binocular; one other criteria for me is light weight.
Quote:
Small exit pupils, for example 2 mm, have little interest in binoculars : a refractor with a binoviewer is better for high magnifications.
As close as I could get were the 100mm Miyauchi Saturns. They are good for DSOs even below the 2mm exit pupil threshold you mention-- even at 75x many objects look very good. I don't see why a 100mm binocular can't provide a satisfying view at 50x; it is not what I consider "high magnification". Many DSOs are best in this mag. range, IMO.
With f7.5 achro objectives the Moon and planets above 75x leave something to be desired in the Miyas-- too much CA for my tastes. Higher mag. lunar/ planetary use requires a lot from binoculars. Terrestrial views above 33x suffer from CA as well. I would LOVE to swap the objectives with well corrected f7.5 ED doublets to see how that combo would perform. I don't know how much image degradation would be caused by the prisms at higher magnifications, however, so this could be an issue clouding the "dream".
The other downside of the Miyauchi design is the use of proprietary eyepieces but now I understand better why this might be so. To keep the weight down the prism clusters had to be kept compact. A longer focal length objective helps prevent prism vignette (like the f5.3 GT 100/45 displays) but the prism design still requires the field stop of the eyepiece to be very close to the front of the eyepiece barrel, hence the proprietary eyepieces (as I see it). With the longer FL objectives, the lowest magnifications/widest fields are sacrificed; 33x with 66° AFOV is as low as they go. Lower mags with wide field eyepieces would require bigger prisms and greater weight. 
Knowing this now, I can see how the "dream binocular" would have to somehow work around all the compromises required of binocular design. I guess that's why they will likely remain a "dream"!
Rich V
--------------------
Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
|
milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 556
Loc: Arizona
|
|
Quote:
- true apo objective lenses, with the same quality as astronomical refractors
- f/6 focal ratio
- 45° angled focusers
- correctly oriented image in both vertical and horizontal directions, like in all binoculars
- 1.25" focusers, compatible with astronomical eyepieces
....I don't expect a low price for such binoculars.
OK Jean-Charles, how about this:
TEC140ED f/7 + Baader T-2 Amici diagonal + MkV Binoviewer
Using 24Pan's equivalent to:
40x100 apo binocular
correct image
3.4mm exit pupil
1.6° TFOV
Image quality superior to any conventional binocular
You can get the magnification down to 25x and exit pupil up to 5.7mm using 40mm Plossl's but TFOV will remain the same. The bonus: You also own a world-class apochromatic refractor. 
Total price new: USD$7,208.00 (not including eyepieces)
Milt
|
rookie
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/14/06
Posts: 878
Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
|
|
As much as I like my Regal 10x42's I would also like to have a Fujinon 10x50 FMT-SX. So if any of you are sick and tired of the one you have, please feel free to PM me about it. 
--------------------
SV
Scope: Celestron CPC8
Binoculars: Garrett GT80~45, Fujinon 16x70, Regals 10x42, Ultima 9x63, Nikon AE 8x40
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2156
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Shirley,
How about a nice Revue 10x50mm instead. 
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
|
rookie
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/14/06
Posts: 878
Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
|
|
Stan,
It's a dilemma:
matching set vs eclectic collection?  
How did you get that new binocular in the house past your wife?
Seriously, my Fujinon 16x70's are so superb I would like the same design if I ever buy a 10x50. I also tend to hand guests binoculars at night and make them go outside with me and my green laser pointer. Sometimes I could use more. No one wants to share.
--------------------
SV
Scope: Celestron CPC8
Binoculars: Garrett GT80~45, Fujinon 16x70, Regals 10x42, Ultima 9x63, Nikon AE 8x40
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2156
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Quote:
Stan,
How did you get that new binocular in the house past your wife?
Shirley,
My older sister's hubby passed away last Dec. and out of his entire collection of hunting binoculars I aksed her to send me the Revue 10x50, plus a Bushnell 7x50. The Bushnell turned out to be an old clunker, so I gave it away.
I recently also acquired a Bushnell 7x35WA from a local garage sale, for only $7.
It is an older inexpensive model , but, surprisingly gives decent views at night, for stargazing.
Excellent views during the daytime when looking at thunderhead clouds.
I may have to keep it around for awhile.
How many electric binoculars do you own?
Are you above ground or under water?
Stan
Edited by hallelujah (07/01/09 06:54 PM)
|
EverlastingSky
sage
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 302
Loc: Vancouver Canada
|
|
Fujinon Polaris 20X100
|
JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 197
Loc: France
|
|
Quote:
You mentioned The Garrett GT100/45°... I wondered just how good the ED glass would be in the new APM 100/45°? I have the GT100/45°and find them very good for the price point.
Glen,
For the price point, as you mentioned, I don't doubt they are very good. But if you consider 100 mm ED refractors available on the market, you will find they cost nearly the same price as the GT 100/45°. The GT 100/45° is basically a double 100 mm refractor, with a rather complex system of prisms. So there are necessarily some compromises in quality to maintain a very reasonable cost.
The reviews I have read in various places confirm that there is room for optical improvement.
Remember we are talking here about "dream binoculars". 
Jean-Charles
|
JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 197
Loc: France
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Small exit pupils, for example 2 mm, have little interest in binoculars : a refractor with a binoviewer is better for high magnifications.
As close as I could get were the 100mm Miyauchi Saturns. They are good for DSOs even below the 2mm exit pupil threshold you mention-- even at 75x many objects look very good. I don't see why a 100mm binocular can't provide a satisfying view at 50x; it is not what I consider "high magnification". Many DSOs are best in this mag. range, IMO.
Rich,
Yes, I was unclear. I meant that for me, a 40x80 binocular that couldn't use lower powers is not very interesting. A good refractor, equipped with a binoviewer and its dedicated corrector has chances to be optically better. But binoculars with interchangeable eyepieces, that can be used at 20x, can also be used at 40x or more. IMO the advantage of binoculars is to reach large exit pupils more easily than a binoviewer.
Jean-Charles
|
JCB
super member
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 197
Loc: France
|
|
Quote:
OK Jean-Charles, how about this:
TEC140ED f/7 + Baader T-2 Amici diagonal + MkV Binoviewer
Using 24Pan's equivalent to:
40x100 apo binocular
correct image
3.4mm exit pupil
1.6° TFOV
Image quality superior to any conventional binocular
You can get the magnification down to 25x and exit pupil up to 5.7mm using 40mm Plossl's but TFOV will remain the same. The bonus: You also own a world-class apochromatic refractor.
Total price new: USD$7,208.00 (not including eyepieces)
Milt
Milt,
The exit pupil is physically 3.4 mm, but the amount of light is divided by 2 because of the binoviewer. So the equivalent exit pupil for this 41x100 binocular would be only 2.4 mm. I observe regularly in a very dark site, and from my experiments with aperture masks on binoculars, viewing the Milky Way with a 4 or 5 mm exit pupil produces a very different effect than a 2.7 mm or 3.2 mm exit pupil.
The 40 mm Plossls don't have the wide AFOV I am expecting in a dream binocular.
I have thought about the configuration you proposed (not necessarily with a TEC 140), and I wondered about the possibility to use a focal reducer to achieve low powers with the 24-Pans. I think there are several issues about the available back focus, the distance between the reducer and the focal plane, and perhaps also the image quality, since reducers are intended for photography.
Jean-Charles
|
milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 556
Loc: Arizona
|
|
Quote:
I think there are several issues about the available back focus, the distance between the reducer and the focal plane, and perhaps also the image quality
Therein lies the rub. I chose TEC for my example because they are the only company I know of that makes scopes with enough back focus for the Amici - Mk V combination to reach focus at native focal length, let alone with a reducer.
Nothing's easy!
Milt
|
GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1740
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
Glen,
For the price point, as you mentioned, I don't doubt they are very good. But if you consider 100 mm ED refractors available on the market, you will find they cost nearly the same price as the GT 100/45°. The GT 100/45° is basically a double 100 mm refractor, with a rather complex system of prisms. So there are necessarily some compromises in quality to maintain a very reasonable cost.
The reviews I have read in various places confirm that there is room for optical improvement.
Remember we are talking here about "dream binoculars".
Jean-Charles
I agree that the GT100/45° is not perfect and there is room for improvement. Then again I could say that about any binocular/scope.
I find the GT100/45° excel at what I bought them for....clusters.
I do have a Equinox 120ED (not stopped down to 113 BTW). I don't intend to binoview with it though. Different animal,different purpose.
Clear Skies.
--------------------
Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
|
|
14 registered and 10 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: EdZ
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1972
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
