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kraterkid
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast Rim
      #3175286 - 06/21/09 08:55 PM Attachment (92 downloads)

Surely the northeast rim of Mare Imbrium comprises some of the most magnificent, complex and recognizable set of features on the lunar surface. It is also witness to one of the most violent upheavals to have rocked the Moon, the creation of the enormous Imbrium Basin. The fury of this event, some 3.85 billion years ago, gouged and sculpted the arcing terrain of the rim into the familiar lineaments of mountainous ejecta and broken crater rims that radiate from the basin center. Stately Plato, whose somber, one hundred km wide floor lies flooded in basalt, was created several hundred thousand years after the basin was formed. Subsequent lava flooding during the next billion years nearly lead to it’s inundation. Venting from the glacis of the crater, long sinuous lava tubes channeled liquid magma down slope towards the shores of Mare Imbrium and Frigoris. A huge block of Plato’s western rim calved off and slid down toward the floor, perhaps after being undermined by the rising magma which embayed it’s floor facing margins. Scattered about the mare to the southwest of Plato are the Montes Teneriffe. These peaks are 2.4 kilometers high and along with Mons Pico and Mons Piton, they are collectively known as Plato’s Sheep. It’s easy to imagine how impressive the sight of these isolated mountains would appear if viewed from the floor of Mare Imbrium. Uplifted plates of regolith rise along the eastern slopes of Plato’s glacis and line the north eastern shore of Mare Imbrium in a long, rugged, but graceful arc. These are the majestic Montes Alps, whose blocky peaks range 1,800 meters to 2,400 meters in altitude above the mare. Mons Blanc is even higher yet, nearly 3,500 meters in elevation. Halfway down the 250 km long mountain range is the famous Vallis Alpes or Alpine Valley. 180 km long and 10-20 km wide, the Alpine Valley does not appear to result from a gouge caused by ejecta from the Imbrium event, instead, it was created by radial stress fractures that were formed during the impact. The regolith above the fractures later collapsed to form the Valley. These same fractures probably formed the lava conduit for the rille that runs the Alpine Valley’s length. Following the arc of the Montes Alpes south past the Alpine Valley leads to 57 km Cassini whose glacis appears soft and pudding like, the result of Mare Imbrium lavas encroaching on it’s wreath of ejecta.


Sketch Details:

Subject: Plato and environs Rukl: 3, 4, 11, 12
Date: 6-2-09 Time: 4:57 to 8:53 UT
Location: Jacumba, California
Seeing: Antoniadi I-II Weather: clear, no wind
Lunation: 8.66 days
Colongitude: 19.2 deg.
Illumination: 71.4%
Lib. in Lat.: +06 deg. 40 min.
Lib. in Long.: +06 deg. 18 min.
Phase: 64.6 deg.
Telescope: 12" Meade SCT f/10
Binoviewer: Denkmeier BV-25
90 deg. W.O. erect image diagonal
Eyepieces: Pentax XW 20mm
Magnification: 152X
Medium:Sketch White and black Conte' on Black 400 Strathmore Artagain paper
Sketch size: 17” x 24”


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JSeay86
sage


Reged: 04/26/09

Loc: Tulsa, OK
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3175586 - 06/22/09 12:16 AM

That sketch is fantastic

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revans
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Fitchburg, MA
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast Rim new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3175771 - 06/22/09 05:12 AM Attachment (79 downloads)

Rich,

That is a really incredible sketch. It got me thinking and I went back into my photo archives of images I took in April of last year. I made a mosaic of two images of Plato and the Alpine Valley which gives nearly the same view as you have sketched. The detail you have captured is, in places... like the valley rille, finer than what my camera recorded. Great job !

Rick


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: revans]
      #3176093 - 06/22/09 11:22 AM

Thanks so much Jseay86 and Rick!

Rick, that is a beautiful image of Plato and the Alpine Valley. Looks like you had excellent seeing that night. I was very surprised to see the Valley rille for the first time in my life. I had Antoniadi I conditions almost the entire session. Still the amount of detail in this area is daunting to try to capture in a sketch, even if you spend nearly four hours at the eyepiece!


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Big Wall
member


Reged: 12/07/08

Loc: Denver
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3176714 - 06/22/09 04:33 PM

Absolutely amazing sketch!

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Mare Nectaris
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/09/08

Loc: Toijala, Finland
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: Big Wall]
      #3176817 - 06/22/09 05:53 PM

Sweet report - and fantastic sketch, Rich - and beautiful pic to go along, Rick! This kind of joint effort is really enjoyable to digest!

Thanks for sharing!

Be well!


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: Mare Nectaris]
      #3176918 - 06/22/09 07:04 PM

Thanks Joe and Timo!

I'm not likely to get such terrific seeing again soon (it's generally very windy in Jacumba) so I'm glad I took advantage of it while it lasted. While sketching I kept thinking that I should be imaging! Oh well...


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BobinKy
Post Laureate
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Reged: 04/27/07

Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3176944 - 06/22/09 07:21 PM

Rich...

Beautiful sketch.


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: BobinKy]
      #3177223 - 06/22/09 09:48 PM

Thank you Bob!

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larrytOMC200
sage
*****

Reged: 07/05/07

Loc: New Zealand
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast Rim new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3177560 - 06/23/09 02:04 AM

Hello Rich,
I just want to add my tupenneth worth about your superb sketch. It is one of the best I have ever had the privilege of seeing. It will probably leave you with a lasting memory of the session. Rare it is that one gets the seeing you must have had. Thank you for sharing with us and keep well. Larry


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David Knisely
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast Rim new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3177602 - 06/23/09 02:50 AM

kraterkid posted:

Quote:

Scattered about the mare to the southwest of Plato are the Montes Teneriffe. These peaks are 2.4 kilometers high and along with Mons Pico and Mons Piton, they are collectively known as Plato’s Sheep. It’s easy to imagine how impressive the sight of these isolated mountains would appear if viewed from the floor of Mare Imbrium.




I too used to view Pico and Piton and imagine their sharp peaks, but later, their true size came into perspective. When I was in high school, one of the old "Project Physics" work book class exercises had us measuring the height of Pico using a large first-quarter image of the moon and measuring the shadow cast by the mountain. The figure I came up with was around 7,700 ft, which wasn't far off of the 7,870 ft (2.4 km) figure more commonly found. However, I soon found out that the mountain, while tall, was actually rather broad at its base. It is about 25 km long by 15 km wide, so from the floor of Mare Imbrium, it would appear as a rather modest rise rather than a tall peak. It certainly would not be as impressive as Mt. Hadley or Hadley Delta, which are both higher and steeper than Pico is. So much for those wonderful early science fiction depictions of the sharp mountains of the moon! Clear skies to you.


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3178225 - 06/23/09 01:25 PM

Thanks Larry!

Yes it was definitely a night I'll keep with me in memory (and in the form of this sketch) for the rest of my life. All the best my friend.

Hi David,

Actually I never mentioned "sharp peaks" in my description. What I was alluding to was the isolated appearance of the mountains from the relatively flat plain of the mare. Kind of like a lunar Ayer's Rock , which looks as if it juts up from the floor of the surrounding plain.

Clear skies back at ya!


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rolandlinda3
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/24/06

Loc: Crozet VA 22932
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3178238 - 06/23/09 01:31 PM

Rich, beautiful sketch and man what a lot of detail and work is in the sketch!! Nice job. Roland

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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: rolandlinda3]
      #3178287 - 06/23/09 01:58 PM

Thanks Roland!

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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3178852 - 06/23/09 07:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks Larry!

Yes it was definitely a night I'll keep with me in memory (and in the form of this sketch) for the rest of my life. All the best my friend.

Hi David,

Actually I never mentioned "sharp peaks" in my description. What I was alluding to was the isolated appearance of the mountains from the relatively flat plain of the mare. Kind of like a lunar Ayer's Rock , which looks as if it juts up from the floor of the surrounding plain.

Clear skies back at ya!




Actually, I was more referring to the old Chesley Bonestell paintings depicting the tall craggy lunar mountains rather than saying that you were claiming them as being sharp. It was easy with the low sun angle to imagine Pico as a sharp prong out of the mare, when it is really more like a big mound. The Ayers Rock analogy might be closer, although from the looks of Pico as the sun gets higher in the sky, it doesn't looks like the edges are all that vertical like the rock is. Clear skies to you.


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3179130 - 06/23/09 10:07 PM

Hi David,

So much has changed about how we imagine these features since the lunar orbiters, landers, and most importantly, the Apollo program showed us that meteoritic gardening softens any jagged contours over the course of millions of years. The steepness of Pico may not be as pronounced as Ayer's, but my imagination says it's an awesome sight out on the mare 20 to 30 kilometers out.


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BobinKy
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/27/07

Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3179229 - 06/23/09 10:57 PM

David...

Thanks for mentioning the old paintings of Chesley Bonestell. They are trully amazing. David A. Hardy also has some neat space art of lunar mountains.


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: BobinKy]
      #3179321 - 06/24/09 12:07 AM

Bob and David,

Chesley's paintings were the source of inspiration for my first imaginary sketches of the Moon as a child. I drew a picture of a lunar lander touching down next to the very jagged central peaks of Copernicus. Fantastic stuff!


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David Knisely
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: kraterkid]
      #3179375 - 06/24/09 12:56 AM

Quote:

Hi David,

So much has changed about how we imagine these features since the lunar orbiters, landers, and most importantly, the Apollo program showed us that meteoritic gardening softens any jagged contours over the course of millions of years. The steepness of Pico may not be as pronounced as Ayer's, but my imagination says it's an awesome sight out on the mare 20 to 30 kilometers out.




I think if people had just studied the way the relief and shadowing of Pico vanishes somewhat with even modest sun angle, they probably would have concluded that it wasn't nearly as "peaked" as they thought well before spacecraft imaged the area. However, for viewing Pico from the lunar surface, I would stay closer than 20 km away from its highest point. At 30 km away, roughly the lower third of Pico would probably be below the lunar horizon, and beyond 91 km away, it would not be visible at all (at least there is no "haze" to get in the way though ). Clear skies to you.


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kraterkid
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/05

Loc: Jacumba, California
Re: Plato and environs: Mare Imbrium’s Northeast R new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3180916 - 06/24/09 08:14 PM

Hi David,

It's hard to overcome the cultural mindset of the times I guess. When Grove Carl Gilbert argued that lunar craters were impact features, no one listened. Ironic that he concluded after several years of study that Meteor Crater in Arizona was of volcanic origin! You are quite right about the distance to Pico for a good view, the radius of curvature for the Moon is considerably smaller than the Earth.


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