Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
bbmagic
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 54
Loc: 40°30 111°53
|
|
I've been observing off and on for about 10 years now and I have never bothered keeping a checklist. I have no idea why, as I do maintain a checklist of species seen while birding...but anyway, I finally decided I needed a plan to motivate me to look for new things rather than just re-visit all my old friends. To that end, I looked into the Astronomical League observing clubs and last night I went out to get a good start on the Messier List, Urban List and Lunar I list! All told, I nabbed 10 Messier's and a double on the urban list. I also checked off 8 things on the Lunar I list. I had quite the sense of accomplishment after I got home and realized that this was the ONLY way to go!
Clear skies!
bbmagic
--------------------
XT10i (Moonlite CR2, Bob's Knobs, 2 Dovetail mounts, Flocked, EbonyStar)
Celestron FirstScope Mini-Dob
Hyperion 8mm (2") & 8-24 Zoom (2")
Agena 32mm SWA (2")
GSO 2x ED Barlow (2") & Orion Shorty (1.25")
Sirius Plossl 25mm/10mm (1.25")
Catseye Tools
Orion SkyGlow Filter (1.25") & Solar Filter (8")
Moon Filter (13%) (1.25" & 2")
Celestron GLP
Alpen 10x50 binoculars
A patient and understanding wife!
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
I am a total beginner to actual observing, and only have a cheap set of binoculars and my eyes for that, but I do have some ideas about the approach you are speaking of.
To my mind, thinking like "I nabbed 10 Messier's /I also checked off 8 things on the..." sounds sorta like collecting for sport, which I wouldn't really understand the motivation for within the context of this "hobby" and the value that it holds.
It seems to *me* that it would be far more interesting to have a couple of particular objects that you've studied and come to understand (their distance, temperature, elemental makeup, age, how they came to be, when they were discovered, if "the ancients" had any thoughts on them... those kinds of things), and wish to spend some time with *just them*, fully "meditating into them" and experiencing them directly after having learned about them.
To my own personal way of thinking, looking at them as "checklist objects" takes away all of their actual *meaning* and worth, but I also realize that everyone is oriented differently... just thought I would share an alternative way of looking at looking!
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
I will add that I also do not understand the phenomenon that I witness at museums... most folks are just walking by the stuff, taking a quick glance at it and moving on without spending ANY time gathering actual data on what they are seeing, and then putting it into a context against the background of History or whatever... it's just "something to have seen" rather than something that has added to one's deeper understanding.
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
Lard Greystoke
sage
Reged: 07/27/08
Posts: 377
Loc: Ohio
|
|
A checklist is also a way of organizing information and assisting memory. When I was starting out I enjoyed not having a plan, because absolutely everything was a discovery. After some years I found that I could not keep in my head everything that I had already seen or still needed to see, and record-keeping was a major help. I tend to agree that people can get obsessive about "knocking things off", and I would not encourage a beginner to be in too much of a hurry. But at some point looking for new objects can add interest, and as they add up some degree of organization becomes necessary.
--------------------
Lard Greystoke
10" Odyssey Compact
"With Tantor, the elephant, he made friends. How? Ask me not."
|
Midnight Dan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 2763
Loc: Brockport, NY
|
|
Hi bbmagic:
I agree 100%! There will come a time when you will outgrow those canned lists though, and at that point you might want to look into planning software like AstroPlanner.
It comes with multiple databases of millions of objects. You can set up searches to find objects that are visible from your location when you will be observing, limited to specific object types, above a certain altitude, within limits for magnitude, size, surface brightness, etc.
You can then choose objects from that list to create a plan. It can show you the slew path through the sky so you can decide what order you want, or it can sort by transit time, or find the shortest slew path for all the objects etc. You can also use it to drive your scope if you're so inclined and your scope is computerized.
If not, you can print out the observing plan with any and all information including space for written notes. You can record your observations for each session and look back over time to see which objects you've bagged, how often you've seen them, which eyepieces, filters, etc. they were best in.
There's TONS more you can do with it, but I would bore you to death with the long list of cool features! 
You can download a free version (without the extensive databases) to try it out at:http://www.ilangainc.com/astroplanner/index.shtml
Even if you decide to buy, it's only $45 which, in my opinion, is a real bargain for what it can do. Also, it's available for Mac, Windows, and Linux.
-Dan
--------------------
Scopes: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Orion EON 72mm ED/APO, Orion ShortTube 80
Mounts: NexStar Alt/Az GoTo, Orion Astroview (EQ3) w/single axis drive
Eyepieces: Baader Hyperion 36mm (Aspheric), 21mm 13mm, 8mm, 5mm;
Other: 2x & 3x Barlow, 0.63x Focal Reducer, Dew-not strips, DewBuster controller, SQM Meter
|
MrGibbly
super member
Reged: 02/07/09
Posts: 152
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
|
|
To each his own... Personally, I take great satisfaction from just finding some of these faint fuzzies from my back yard. That's enough a lot of the time. Other nights, I need to really study something and consider its significance, the science of it, its place in history, etc. I find that I need both to sustain my interest in the hobby.
On those cloudy nights, its the gear itself that gets me. I need something to fiddle with, clean, tweak, research online, and even to shop for!
--------------------
Zhumell Z10 10" f/4.92 Dob w/Telrad
28,16,7 and 4mm William Optics UWAN
|
Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Frederick Maryland
|
|
I've been in this game for many a moon...BUT I now sit down at the computer in the afternoon and pick 5 or 6 "targets" of interest to me using www.tonightssky.com and "budget" at 2 hours of my time just looking at them..taking notes and recording my observations...
AFTER that 2 hours then I am set free and just goof off and look around,..revisit old friends and just relax and enjoy myself...
It is not uncommon ..especially on good evenings) to spend 6 hours in the observatory most of which is spent "goofing off"... that is the desert I am owed after I completed my homework for the night on my selected targets......
Bob G
--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
|
izar187
sage
Reged: 09/02/06
Posts: 246
Loc: 43N
|
|
I usually begin by goofing off for a while.
Then focus near the meridian for a while.
Followed by more goofing off before buckling up for the night(or dawn).
--------------------
4 thru 13 inch scopes.
30 years observing.
You just read this on the internet, so.....
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
Quote:
I usually begin by goofing off for a while.
Then focus near the meridian for a while.
Followed by more goofing off before buckling up for the night(or dawn).
 All real astronomy is done within an hour on either side of the meridian isn't it. 
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
bbmagic
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 54
Loc: 40°30 111°53
|
|
I guess what I meant by the whole topic is not to just "Check things off a list" but to accomplish something with it, like the Astro League Observing Clubs. In fact, the purpose of the post was to bring the Astro League clubs to the attention of the beginners. There's always countless posts of "What can I see from my light polluted backyard?" or "What globulars can I see from here?". The Astro League clubs serve this precise purpose. I'm also working on the globular cluster club which requires significant study and comparative analysis of the globulars on the list, not just a checkmark. Even the Messier club forces me to make notes and study the object in more detail than just saying, "Oh, there it is, on to the next one!". Like I said in the first post, I've been doing this for a decade. The objects I checked off my list last night have been viewed dozens of times, if not more. I've probably logged over four hours on M13 alone. The point was to have a plan in mind rather than just set up and say "Gee, what should I do?" and waste precious time behind the eyepiece. Even with birding I make notes on the behavior of the species when I check them off my life list. The only club I'm working on that is truly a checklist is Lunar I. Even that requires several sessions to complete and a good atlas or detailed map of the lunar surface.
Sorry if it sounds like a rant, I just wanted to clarify that I'm not just getting my feet wet and stumbling across the lazy man's way to casual observing.
Brandon
--------------------
XT10i (Moonlite CR2, Bob's Knobs, 2 Dovetail mounts, Flocked, EbonyStar)
Celestron FirstScope Mini-Dob
Hyperion 8mm (2") & 8-24 Zoom (2")
Agena 32mm SWA (2")
GSO 2x ED Barlow (2") & Orion Shorty (1.25")
Sirius Plossl 25mm/10mm (1.25")
Catseye Tools
Orion SkyGlow Filter (1.25") & Solar Filter (8")
Moon Filter (13%) (1.25" & 2")
Celestron GLP
Alpen 10x50 binoculars
A patient and understanding wife!
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
I will add that I also do not understand the phenomenon that I witness at museums... most folks are just walking by the stuff, taking a quick glance at it and moving on without spending ANY time gathering actual data on what they are seeing, and then putting it into a context against the background of History or whatever... it's just "something to have seen" rather than something that has added to one's deeper understanding.
I think people want to see as many things in the museum as they can during their visit rather than go into them deeply unless there is something of particular interest. Think, a museum has thousands of artifacts on display, spend 10 minutes on each and the whole day is gone before you even leave the first section!
Good analogy as I am one of those same people who do it on the sky - Why?, because there are tens of thousands deep sky objects and a lot of satisfaction is gained when you get to see something that very few other observers have seen - Its a bit like climbing a mountain few others have. For myself, spending a lot of time each session viewing the same objects gets very boring - but hey that's just me as a lot of observers around me at star parties spend their time doing exactly that and are enjoying every moment so it is everyone to their own - and especially for beginners that is the better way to go until they are familiar with the sky and ready to advance.
Multiple lists drive my observing sessions and they typically contain a few thousand objects and my aim is to see as much of the NGC and IC in my lifetime as possible. Having said that, I'll typically go through about 40 objects in a good nights session spending about 10-15 minutes on each one. But on the next night, it is another 40 objects and so on until the list gets used up over a few years.
For anyone new who are not familiar with what the NGC & IC catalogs are, check out here. After that and as well as, there is also the PK, PGC, UGC, Abell.. etc.,
Certainly enough to keep me going - but there is one object I do look at every night - that's the universe and that is what I spend the time with *just it*, fully "meditating into it" and experiencing it directly after having learned about it.
Talking of similar threads to this one, also have a look at this previous thread
Good luck with your observing.
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
fndNorth12
member
Reged: 04/17/09
Posts: 28
|
|
Hello all. I like this idea of keeping a checklist. This last weekend I went out to the desert and was amazed at how many stars there were. That being said, I didn't know where to start or how to keep track. Currently I keep a journal and sketch what I saw and where/when I saw it. I think I'll add a list to be able to check off. Thanks for the ideas.
|
StarmanDan
sage
Reged: 08/27/07
Posts: 391
Loc: China Spring, Texas
|
|
I have been a rather haphazard observer myself visiting old friends at the beginning of the evening then just methodically scanning the sky like the old astronomer did, making my own "discoveries" and trying to figure out what it was I was seeing with my charts. Only until this past TSP did I do any kind of observing with a "plan" and did the entire binocular list (even though I only needed to do half the objects listed). I found it quite a joy, and a challenge, to plan my observing session, although I, too, found that I seemed to jump from object to object and didn't really study them in detail. Of course I was somewhat hurried due to the fact that bad weather was due to come in, so I may go back to them later. All told, I now see the value in a plan and I will most likely incorporate an observing plan more often in my sessions.
--------------------
"Starman" Dan Doyle
Texas Astronomical Society of Dallas
Central Texas Astronomical Society
8" LX200GPS w/ST80 guidescope, Canon 350D+DSI Pro
150mm f/8 Sky Watcher Refractor
10" f/4.5 Homemade Dob
RV-6 Criterion Dynascope
http://darcstar.wordpress.com
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
Again, I do acknowledge that folks are oriented differently, and have potentially completely unique reasoning for observing to begin with, *but*, to *my* mind (hope nobody gets bent out of shape for someone expressing what's on their mind!),
Quote:
a lot of satisfaction is gained when you get to see something that very few other observers have seen - Its a bit like climbing a mountain few others have.
This very mindset is one of the things that keeps people from truly being able to extract the maximum value from Astronomy that there is to be had.
I think a new old paradigm should be spread to new Astronomers... that of willingly re-inventing the wheel! Crude example:
Sure, it's already been "figured out" that the Earth rotates rather than the stars spinning around us, but there is a VERY POTENT feeling to be had from really studying, noticing, and ultimately *feeling* this for ones self, throughout ones bones, molecules and atoms!
Folks should not feel that just because something has already been figured out, done, seen or whatever before, that there is no *truly deep* value in figuring it out, doing it, seeing it, or especially *feeling* it for themselves.
In my way of thinking, there is very, very little that the average amateur Astronomer can expect to be able to discover or advance in terms of seeing things that haven't been seen before... it's *almost* pointless when there are "pros" sitting in multi million / billion $ observatories with access to unbelievable amounts of data that most do not.
But what each and every amateur *can* do, is to really learn to *experience*, *witness*, *understand*, and especially *feel* the basics of The Universe for themselves in a more direct way than simply watching documentaries and reading books resulting from what "the big boys" have done (though we can certainly be *very* grateful for "the big boys" data filling in the detail for "us").
It's actually far more complicated, what I'm trying to express, than what I'm able to type out (especially given the time that I presently have), but I hope that you will see that I'm not intending a combative tone... but I very much wish to express that in *my* view, I would think Amateur Astronomy would lost by far *most* of its potential value under a sport list mentality.
That's NOT to imply that an observing plan is not good... heck, even with mine and my Son's bare eyes in the front yard I generally have some sort of planned exploration for a portion of the observation. But the *root* of what I set out to do is to more fully *feel* the full majesty of our existence within the context of The Universe that we have found ourselves to have been born into, which includes gaining even a slight degree more of a *feel* and understanding of its mechanics on the most basic level possible.
It just seems to *me*, that a "sport checklist mentality", especially *spreading* such a method to newcomers through "official organizations", could lead to missing out on opportunities to REALLY turn folks on to the true worth of Amateur Astronomy... the value that it can hold for each individual towards enhancing their own experience of themselves within this very mysterious place!
Again, just expressing what's on *my* mind, and not trying to be negative towards anyone (it's very hard to express things in text, especially in quickly whipped up internet forum posts!).
To simplify, I say do not become jaded by what's already been, because YOU weren't the one who originally did it, so it is still there for YOU to experience for yourself! Oh jeez... I am starting to think of several different ways to express this, and several things I would like to go back and accentuate... 
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
a lot of satisfaction is gained when you get to see something that very few other observers have seen - Its a bit like climbing a mountain few others have.
This very mindset is one of the things that keeps people from truly being able to extract the maximum value from Astronomy that there is to be had.
And why would that be? As long as we are all having a great night out at the eyepiece then that's what counts and whatever gives us a kick makes every night one to remember.
So what is the 'maximum value from astronomy to be had' you are referring to? I'd bet there will be a lot of different answers if that went out on some questionaire.
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
Ok I'll pipe in and be serious this time. I've only ever been a one telescope at a time kinda guy. Right now I own 2 scopes but one is far away still, and I just got one a week ago, and some tripod mounted binocs a couple of months ago. I wonder if I have too much equipment allready - seriously.
Ever since the earliest days of my observing, I have kept a log book of my observations with the date, time, weather, seeing conditions, and objects viewed. When I was a kid, this was done in a coiled 3 hole notebook. As I grew older, the notebook filled and I designed my own form for observations, so the notebook, along with the new forms got transferred to a binder. Later came astrophotography, and so negative sleeving was added in the AP section of the binder, and careful notes were made on the forms so I could locate the images later. This binder represents the sum total of my observing time up until some 10 years ago. It has been in Canada at my parents place and next week it should be at the post office for me to pick up, along with a selection of my astronomy library.
Fast forward to 2009, when I decided I needed to get some optical assistance again a couple of months back. I went out and got a huge 3 inch thick binder (free), went on the internet and printed lots of PDF files that I had found, and sleeved in plastic to prevent moisture from ruining them, and added seperators for the sections. My binder includes a mag 7 star atlas, the Sky and Tel full star chart for the entire year, a Sky and Tel moon map, the messier catalog, a couple of different observing forums from the American Association of Amateur Astronomers, and the IFAS Binocular Certificate Handbook. I did this because I enjoy making notes of my observing times, not because I am doing any real science, but it's great for looking back and remembering those special times. It's like you are there all over again.
It's really going to be interesting to read my notes from when I was 8 years old again, and reminisce about those times and where I am at with the hobby again. I think it's great to plan using whatever tools you choose, be they online, planetarium, planisphere, atlas or whatever, to set out to view a few objects, perhaps photograph them if you wish, whatever you want to get out of the experience.
But I am not on a list of "must see" objects for the sport of merely targeting anything, or covering catalogs, or memorizing telrad charts, etc. For me the pleasure is not always around optimization and planning, but I do prefer to do any photographic work within 2 hours of the meridian either side. The true pleasure is in just getting out under the stars, and learning more about what's really out there, and keeping a diary of those travels.
My blog is also my diary of my travels, the ups and downs, a place to publish my ideas, share with others my own personal experience with this hobby. I'm not out to have the biggest telescope, the best imager, etc. I want what makes me happy, and doesn't break the bank. This is my hobby.
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Good post - very similar to the way I started out (except the astrophotography part). I also keep a log and sketch of every observation made (over 6000 since starting way back in 1985) and its great to see what I was observing on a given date.
For me, it is also a pleasure to get out under the stars as it is one of those get away from it alls from the stresses of every day life. Its everyone to their own of course but having those lists make it that more mysterious and enjoyable (for me) and some others especially those in the CN Deep sky forum - enough to make us want to spend many hours out in the dark and freezing cold.
 
Every object I see is appreciated as there is plenty of time to learn about them before and after the time at the eyepiece through books and the tremendous amount of free internet resources including CN!
I don't buy the two dimensional argument that one mindset is less than any other in amateur astronomy as everyone has different aims and things they want to see. Even the professionals with their huge telescopes are glad to have us around as the sky is a very big place and even they can't be studying every part of it all of the time and things can suddenly happen out in the cosmos at very short notice.
Here is to astronomy - 
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
Maureen
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Mid Hudson Valley
|
|
Quote:
I don't buy the two dimensional argument that one mindset is less than any other in amateur astronomy as everyone has different aims and things they want to see. Even the professionals with their huge telescopes are glad to have us around as the sky is a very big place and even they can't be studying every part of it all of the time and things can suddenly happen out in the cosmos at very short notice.
Here is to astronomy -
Well said Alan!
Maureen
--------------------
Discovery 12.5" Truss, Orion ST 80, Coronado PST
Image Intensifier Eyepiece
27mm & 24mm Pan, 13mm & 8mm Ethos, 6mm Radian
|
RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
|
|
It is good that it makes you happy, bbmagic. We all have our different ways of reaching that goal. I must say that I am quite different in my ways. To me, every session is communion with Great One (or whatever name one chooses), as I'm sure it is with us all in some way or another. So, no matter what I see, that conversation will take place, and it is enough for me. Just the sight of the night sky tells me all I need to know. And I am slow about it all (except when the power went off in the whole area once, lol). I often sit and look at one thing, or one area, for hours. Besides, my yard is full of trees and I have to move around to see something else anyway--yes, I am lazy.
However, I do often have an idea for the night, and certain objects to see or tasks to perform, maybe even something scientific. But that plan hangs on a string as thin as the one that I hang my motorcycle riding plans on--I never know where I'm gonna end up. I even have two notebooks, but they are sparse.
And nowadays, I have recently discovered the joys of richfield observing. Seeing views of familiar scenes at low power (say 15-48x, for me) is something I have never been able to see before, until I got a short refractor that could go that low. Now, I am like a kid again rediscovering what I have already dicovered before, only in a different dimension. Beautiful.
See how weird I am? LOL, aren't we all? And loving it!!
Clear skies to ya, pal.
--------------------
--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
Quote:
As long as we are all having a great night out at the eyepiece then that's what counts and whatever gives us a kick makes every night one to remember.
So what is the 'maximum value from astronomy to be had' you are referring to?
To *my* mind, we as an entire species are in a state of emergency, and really should be actively seeking out ways to truly *deepen* ourselves beyond our present selfish, *shallow* ways of looking at both ourselves and The Universe. Right now it seems that most folks, through whatever medium they are using, are out for "getting a kick", and I feel that being overly focused on "getting kicks" is a significant contributor to many of our issues... we really need to mature a great deal at this point, and *fast*.
Quote:
I don't buy the two dimensional argument that one mindset is less than any other in amateur astronomy as everyone has different aims and things they want to see.
Like I've stated many times, I do understand that folks are oriented differently, I am simply giving my input on how *I* am oriented, my opinion on these topics, and that opinion partially holds that simply "nabbing" items on some checklist, sounds more like a sport than a science, and *I* think we have enough "sport" orientation in our society... *more* than enough, and that we really need to learn how to use the exploration of science as a way to truly deepen our "spiritual" understandings of ourselves and our Universe, to find a way of viewing such that could hopefully lead us into more productive views of each other as well.
Now, too, I'm also not trying to say "do away with checklists, they're no good"... I can see the value of a checklist in that it provides an organized way to learn one's way around the sky, but the list should merely be a small enhancement to one's curriculum, in my view, rather than an important focus... it seems to me that making it a "very important aspect" of a curriculum stands too much of a chance of psychologically orienting one into a more shallow, "sport" like mindset when that same time could be spent really teaching the depth of what can be had from astronomical exploration especially when tied in with other sciences for a fuller picture. For that matter, I think folks should be strongly encouraged to get both a telescope, *and* a microscope!
Anyways, again, I realize that I am presenting a view that says that another view is "lessor", but I do not mean it in a combative , "nasty" tone, just wish to share the feelings that I have when I think about the topic being discussed.
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
|
|
I believe that observing in whatever way makes you happy is the right way.
--------------------
--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
|
Maureen
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Mid Hudson Valley
|
|
Quote:
Anyways, again, I realize that I am presenting a view that says that another view is "lessor", but I do not mean it in a combative , "nasty" tone, just wish
to share the feelings that I have when I think about the topic being discussed.
Your view is not at all unusual or even special. I think what gives it the "combative" tone, which I assume you are aware of, since you allude to it (?) is the "superior" tone in which it is stated.
Maureen
--------------------
Discovery 12.5" Truss, Orion ST 80, Coronado PST
Image Intensifier Eyepiece
27mm & 24mm Pan, 13mm & 8mm Ethos, 6mm Radian
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Anyways, again, I realize that I am presenting a view that says that another view is "lessor", but I do not mean it in a combative , "nasty" tone, just wish
to share the feelings that I have when I think about the topic being discussed.
Your view is not at all unusual or even special. I think what gives it the "combative" tone, which I assume you are aware of, since you allude to it (?) is the "superior" tone in which it is stated.
Maureen
I think you've got it in one Maureen
I rest my case....
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
B Rodgers
sage
Reged: 01/20/09
Posts: 438
Loc: Jackson, Mo.
|
|
Quote:
Anyways, again, I realize that I am presenting a view that says that another view is "lessor", but I do not mean it in a combative , "nasty" tone, just wish
to share the feelings that I have when I think about the topic being discussed.
Your view is not at all unusual or even special. I think what gives it the "combative" tone, which I assume you are aware of, since you allude to it (?) is the "superior" tone in which it is stated.
Maureen
Maureen........well played!
--------------------
Bill
Zhumell Z8 Dob
Zhumell 8x50 finder
Telrad
EPs 30mm,9mm,25mm( Thanks JT5),GSO ED2x Barlow, Celestron 8-24mm zoom
Carol's push-to set up w/craftsman 7in digital torpedo level
20x80 binos
el cheapo Meade 60mm refractor(set the hook & reeled me in)
|
Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
|
Quote:
I am a total beginner to actual observing, and only have a cheap set of binoculars and my eyes for that, but I do have some ideas about the approach you are speaking of.
To my mind, thinking like "I nabbed 10 Messier's /I also checked off 8 things on the..." sounds sorta like collecting for sport, which I wouldn't really understand the motivation for within the context of this "hobby" and the value that it holds.
It seems to *me* that it would be far more interesting to have a couple of particular objects that you've studied and come to understand ...
Fine! But that reinforces that original poster's underlying point rather than contradicting it. Whether you set out to check off 10 objects or to study one object in detail, you still have a plan either way.
In practice, everybody who devotes much time to this hobby ends up doing a fair amount of both -- studying objects in detail and also surveying a wide range of objects. One might even say that those are flip sides of the same coin.
Celestial objects fall into hierarchies. When you look at a galaxy in detail, you are surveying individual features inside the galaxy -- though ideally still keeping the galaxy as a whole in mind, too. And in particular, when you check off star clusters and nebulae on a list (and noting some details about each, I hope), you are studying in detail the larger object that they're part of, namely our own Milky Way galaxy. And whenever you look at any celestial object, you are studying the night sky as a whole.
Since you haven't spent much time at this hobby yet, you probably don't appreciate the true value of observing objects in quantity. For one thing, most objects that are visible in any instrument show relatively little detail in that instrument -- typically not much more than size, shape, orientation, brightness, and degree of concentration. Your binoculars will show you a hundred galaxies or so under dark skies, but most of them won't bear much more than 1 or 2 minutes of scrutiny.
For another, celestial objects are very varied. That's particularly true of the objects that binoculars show best -- open star clusters and large nebulae (both bright and dark). To really understand one particular open cluster, you have to know it in the context of open clusters as a class. And the only way to understand open clusters as a class is to view lots of them.
But getting back to the original point, the opposite of setting out with a plan is going out and observing whatever comes to mind. Everybody needs to do that, too, at least sometimes. Otherwise, you lose all spontaneity, and you may end up trapped in and narrowed by your specific goals.
The hazard of going out and observing whatever comes to mind is that all too often the same old things come to mind. And far worse, you tend to view the same old objects the same old way -- in which case you inevitably get bored sooner or later.
In stargazing as in all other things, balance is the key to satisfaction. And the proper balance varies greatly from one individual to another. And from one time to another.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
|
bbmagic
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 54
Loc: 40°30 111°53
|
|
Tony:
That was my point exactly! My normal routine of setting up and wondering what to look at had grown stale. I found I was always looking at the same objects each season, and not pushing myself to see more of what's out there. With a list, I can plan my sessions and increase my understanding of structure, quality, intensity, etc. It has also forced me to take more careful notes so that I can go back and compare objects from night to night and year to year. Plus, I would probably never have bothered to look at some of the less well-known Messier's. So having a target list for the evening (and an overall list to track things I've seen / not seen) has literally opened up the heavens for me. I've even got some obscure things on my list for my next session and the motivation to find them has me chomping at the bit to get out and observe some more.
Brandon
--------------------
XT10i (Moonlite CR2, Bob's Knobs, 2 Dovetail mounts, Flocked, EbonyStar)
Celestron FirstScope Mini-Dob
Hyperion 8mm (2") & 8-24 Zoom (2")
Agena 32mm SWA (2")
GSO 2x ED Barlow (2") & Orion Shorty (1.25")
Sirius Plossl 25mm/10mm (1.25")
Catseye Tools
Orion SkyGlow Filter (1.25") & Solar Filter (8")
Moon Filter (13%) (1.25" & 2")
Celestron GLP
Alpen 10x50 binoculars
A patient and understanding wife!
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
Sorry folks, I don't mean to stir bad vibes around, I have a lot of frustrations and tend to judge and criticize a lot. I honestly *do* hold the views that I speak of, so cannot apologize for that, but I sure do wish I was more skilled at expressing them sometimes! I've been gone for much of the last coupla days, but have often had this thread nagging on my mind.
Quote:
most objects that are visible in any instrument show relatively little detail in that instrument -- typically not much more than size, shape, orientation, brightness, and degree of concentration. most of them won't bear much more than 1 or 2 minutes of scrutiny
This is where I would encourage an awareness towards the idea that your *best*, most *awesome* piece of Astronomy equipment is your inner human observatory, using the mind & "spirit / soul", coupled with the readily available "book knowledge" on these "objects".
If folks with what is essentially "cheap" (even if it's a thousand or more dollars!) scopes rely *only* on what they are seeing with their eyes, they will lose out *big time* on the depth of experience that's there to be had. I think we need to "train" folks to no longer be "disappointed" in the level of detail that they're able to see with their eyes of these things, but to "fill in the missing stuff on their own" sorta.
These days we're able to work in reverse, because most everything has been "found" (as far as can be with what the average "amateur" will have available", so we have the benefit of letting all of the already gathered images (deeply detailed!) and data back up what we are seeing with our eyes through the scopes!
Just like Tai Chi is considered a mostly "inner martial art", I believe that we should now be introducing Astronomy to newcomers with much more of an emphasis towards the inner experience, and it just strikes me that perpetuating checklists and "number of objects" as an emphasized method could lead folks into psychological approaches that are not good for the long haul, perhaps getting bored with it once they've "seen it all".
Given the type of orientation that I'm speaking of, it seems that one would stand a greater chance at being oriented more towards extreme excitement and deep fulfillment at being able to see *any* detail at all of these things, and would be apt to spend more and more time with *each* object, fully savoring it and allowing it to fill in not just the retina, but also the imagination and heart.
Anyways, I really am sorry for being abrasive, I'm trying my best to express things that I feel both passionately about and frustrated with, without leaving an overly acidic aftertaste... It's like an overwhelming, turbulent movement from within that's trying to escape through *way* too small of an exit!
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
It's like an overwhelming, turbulent movement from within that's trying to escape through *way* too small of an exit!
What you are describing here? - A vacuum cleaner that has just been put into reverse?
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
bbmagic
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 54
Loc: 40°30 111°53
|
|
I was thinking of something more flatulent when I first read it! 
--------------------
XT10i (Moonlite CR2, Bob's Knobs, 2 Dovetail mounts, Flocked, EbonyStar)
Celestron FirstScope Mini-Dob
Hyperion 8mm (2") & 8-24 Zoom (2")
Agena 32mm SWA (2")
GSO 2x ED Barlow (2") & Orion Shorty (1.25")
Sirius Plossl 25mm/10mm (1.25")
Catseye Tools
Orion SkyGlow Filter (1.25") & Solar Filter (8")
Moon Filter (13%) (1.25" & 2")
Celestron GLP
Alpen 10x50 binoculars
A patient and understanding wife!
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
I was thinking of something more flatulent when I first read it!
  - Perfect 10/10!
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
Jimmy2K63
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: Kentucky
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I was thinking of something more flatulent when I first read it!
- Perfect 10/10!
Don't let the present tense taint the joy of the past.
Welcome to the hobby that encompasses all this stuff. Welcome to the FUTURE...that is, if we have one.
--------------------
http://astronomyguy63.blogspot.com/
LXD75 SN6-UHTC
Cave Astrola 10" f/5
Garrett 15x70/FarSight
Canon XS (1000D)
|
RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
|
|
Good grief, folks. Everybody's different. If you like to plan and have lists, that's great. If you like to stare at one thing all night, that's great. If you like to pop a top and just scan through the scope once in a while, that's great. No use in battering each other.
Enig--I know it's hard to convey what you feel sometimes over the internet on a keyboard. Folks can't hear the inflection as they would in your voice. I know you're just trying to tell what YOU feel, and so are we all. Sometimes it gets misinterpreted, especially since there are those who sometimes really are putting down someone else. Any of us is surely en garde for that to happen. Your tone did make it sound that way a little, but that's ok, you said you didn't mean to. No problem, in my opinion. But you also have said some things that I identify with, that being observing with the mind and heart.
Folks, I can plan and go hard at observing technically and in quantity when I feel like it. Or, like last night, I can find myself out there with a drink and smoke sitting by the scope looking for fireflies and only looking at something casually. Or, I can just scan and see what comes up. Maybe I'm thinking something, maybe not. But one thing's for sure, it's all ME, and ME only. I've been observing for 50 years, come this Christmas.
I'll be out tonight. A plan? Hm, dunno yet. Maybe, maybe not. And if it's not a good seeing night and I can't see much detail, that's ok, too--it's what has been granted to me, a gift. I like it any way it comes.
Ya'll be good.
--------------------
--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
|
Maureen
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Mid Hudson Valley
|
|
Again, what you're trying to express is very much a part of this hobby for most people. We get it, believe me. As a matter of fact, we've gotten it for a while - it may be new for you, which makes sense, since you're new to the hobby but most of us, have the capacity to see, feel and experience on the same level (or perhaps on an even deeper level) than you do. I guess I just don't get the persistent need to keep making the same point repeatedly. Surely you have some awareness that you are alienating some (many ?) folks??
Maureen
--------------------
Discovery 12.5" Truss, Orion ST 80, Coronado PST
Image Intensifier Eyepiece
27mm & 24mm Pan, 13mm & 8mm Ethos, 6mm Radian
|
Maureen
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Mid Hudson Valley
|
|
I would like to apologize for my previous post. I feel I have crossed the line. This thread is turning into something not nice and I have contributed to it. I am sorry. Perhaps the mods should consider locking it.
Maureen
--------------------
Discovery 12.5" Truss, Orion ST 80, Coronado PST
Image Intensifier Eyepiece
27mm & 24mm Pan, 13mm & 8mm Ethos, 6mm Radian
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Hi Maureen, I don't think you have anything to apologize about as what you previously said was correct. However, I agree the thread has ran its course and should be put down out of its misery
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
DizzyGazer
member
Reged: 01/14/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Concrete, WA. USA
|
|
Quote:
Good grief, folks. Everybody's different. If you like to plan and have lists, that's great. If you like to stare at one thing all night, that's great. If you like to pop a top and just scan through the scope once in a while, that's great. No use in battering each other.
What he said!  Right on the mark, Dawg!
If I had to follow a "plan" when I went out I likely wouldn't last long in the hobby. Rarely do I take any charts out, but I will take my laptop with Stellarium once in a while if I'm observing away from home and want it to help me locate a few objects.
Wednesday night I headed up to my favorite viewing spot (dark skies on a mountain top at 4'400 ft.) and was able to find 11 new (to me) Messier objects in about 3 hrs. Most of those were found by just pointing my 102mm ED up in the direction of where I thought the objects were, and then just poked around using the 24mm Stratus (gives me 29x). I did have to use Stellarium a bit as well as a list of the Messier objects by Constellation, as I wanted to find M51 and needed a bit of direction there. Found it after a few minutes of searching (this time..LOL). I had spent over 2 hrs. (cumulative) in the past hunting for it and Wed. finally brought success. BTW, I was alone on that mountain top, and I'm sure every bear, deer and cougar for a mile around heard me whoopping and hollering over the find..
To end the night I grabbed a cup of coffee, sat back on the tailgate of my truck and just gazed at it all with the bino's, and naked eye. By 0100 the Moon was gone, and the Milky Way was ever brightening in it's arc that is born from Sag....it was a sight to behold, for sure.
As Russ said...we're all different, and while for some the science brings the excitement (which is cool too!), for others it just gazing at the heavens above and seeing whatever it is we can find that holds our interest.
Mis Dos Centavos...;)
Mike
--------------------
Astro-Tech AT102ED
Orion Sirius EQ-G
Edge-On and Stratus EP's
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." Calvin Coolidge
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
Quote:
Everybody's different. If you like to plan and have lists, that's great. If you like to stare at one thing all night, that's great. If you like to pop a top and just scan through the scope once in a while, that's great. No use in battering each other.
This I agree with on an individual level, no problem. The thing that got me worried is the (perhaps incorrect) impression that the originally mentioned organization has checklists as some sort of immediately put forth "curriculum / approach" that is handed out to new folks who are coming to them with an initial spark of curiosity, and it just sorta "scares" me that this could be what "fresh meat" is presented with, some maybe never knowing how much more to it that there can be (as some folks do not know how to go beyond what they are directly shown / taught).
I'm in no way saying that the individual cannot do things on their own as they wish, I'm just hoping that a high visibly public organization is offering up the most potent "curriculum" possible, because they have a *lot* of influence over how well and worthwhilely the hobby gets spread into the "general populous".
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
DizzyGazer
member
Reged: 01/14/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Concrete, WA. USA
|
|
Hi Enig,
Interesting thoughts. Never thought about having an established beginner curriculum. In my case I've done a bit of public stuff, mostly when I'm out and folks just happen by. I always try to ask them a few questions and find out what their interest might be, and then use that as a basis for any objects I might show them, or the information I might impart to them. Piquing their individual interests lets them know that astronomy has something for everyone, be it the mathematics, geology of different stars, or just poking around and finding cool stuff to look at, no matter it's designation in some catalog.
Maureen: IMO, not a thing wrong with expressing your concerns, and there is much wisdom in your words. You have a great deal of tact, and it's very clear (at least to me) that you are quite sensitive to others feelings. I think your post was worthwhile and helped contribute positively to the overall thread. We're all big kids here, and sometimes a "poke-in-the-ribs" gets us to thinking better.
Mike
--------------------
Astro-Tech AT102ED
Orion Sirius EQ-G
Edge-On and Stratus EP's
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." Calvin Coolidge
Edited by DizzyGazer (07/04/09 01:47 AM)
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
The thing that got me worried is the (perhaps incorrect) impression that the originally mentioned organization has checklists as some sort of immediately put forth "curriculum / approach" that is handed out to new folks who are coming to them with an initial spark of curiosity, and it just sorta "scares" me that this could be what "fresh meat" is presented with, some maybe never knowing how much more to it that there can be (as some folks do not know how to go beyond what they are directly shown / taught).
Not at all Enig - I don't believe that's what the original poster or myself intended. Its entirely up to the individual new or advanced which methods they use and we are not impressing anything upon them - only suggesting some of the options available that already work for us. On the other hand, I don't believe that any method or mindset adopted by someone else is inferior to another but that is my way.
You made up good on your last post which is appreciated and yes, after nearly 25 years I'm still observing with the mind and heart even with that checklist as all of those faint little fuzzies carry a lot more meaning under the surface than what lands on the retina. A good example is that faint little quasar - boring to look at but the light started traversing space before our solar system formed - incredible. Then there is the massive black hole in the center - one of the most powerful monsters in the universe! Okay, getting carried away now .... 
Sorry about the crude little joke I made earlier but I was just trying to bring some humor into to the thread. The last sentence you wrote was very funny and brightened up my morning making my other half laugh as well
Anyway, time to move forward now - so please make yourself at home and feel free to ask questions as there will always be someone with the answer.
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
Maureen
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/05
Posts: 1599
Loc: Mid Hudson Valley
|
|
Great to see how folks with good intentions and good hearts can work things out. Now if we could only teach this to world leaders.... Wait a minute - what am I saying - then World Peace would break out and all those cable news networks would be out of business!
Maureen
--------------------
Discovery 12.5" Truss, Orion ST 80, Coronado PST
Image Intensifier Eyepiece
27mm & 24mm Pan, 13mm & 8mm Ethos, 6mm Radian
|
Midnight Dan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 2763
Loc: Brockport, NY
|
|
Quote:
simply "nabbing" items on some checklist, sounds more like a sport than a science
An interesting thread. Just wanted to toss in my coupla sheckles.
I think the term "checklist" is a problem here. It brings up negatively connotations of just mindlessly checking things off - saw that, yep there's the next one, got it ... with a goal of how many can I "check off" in one night.
Having a plan is not the same as just checking things off a list and I don't think that connotation was inferred by bbmagic since he also uses the term "plan" as well as "checklist". I don't think anyone who uses a checklist for their plan is actually intent on "simply nabbing items".
I agree with those that have said everyone is different, approaches their observing sessions differently, and gets satisfaction from it in their own way. I personally am a planner. I like having a plan for many things in life and I get a lot of satisfaction from following through on it. Having a plan means I've put some thought into ahead of time and feel that I'm not missing out on something because I didn't do my research up front. But I also enjoy just exploring around some nights and seeing whatever pops up.
-Dan
--------------------
Scopes: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Orion EON 72mm ED/APO, Orion ShortTube 80
Mounts: NexStar Alt/Az GoTo, Orion Astroview (EQ3) w/single axis drive
Eyepieces: Baader Hyperion 36mm (Aspheric), 21mm 13mm, 8mm, 5mm;
Other: 2x & 3x Barlow, 0.63x Focal Reducer, Dew-not strips, DewBuster controller, SQM Meter
|
RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
|
|
Thank goodness this thread has turned happier. I will also add that if someone wants to only check things off a list, that's great, too, for them. For me, if there's a special event coming up, I, too, often would like to plan for it in order not to miss anything. On the other hand, I have stumbled upon events I didn't even know were gonna happen--now that was fun. I also remember my first view of Uranus, just a blue dot, that's all. Not much to see, but I stared at it for about twenty minutes, not expecting to see anything more, but to observe it "with my mind." That is, to think about what I was looking at and what it means, what it is, what it is made of, how far away it is, and many other things that I have learned about it. Had I never read up on it I wouldn't have known what to think about. But then again, if I knew nothing at all, I could still contemplate the beauty of it in it's surroundings, evaluate its color, or just give thanks for the show. Someone else may have had a different experience with it. It's all great stuff.
--------------------
--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
|
RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
|
|
Thanks for your comments, Dizzy.  Good to see ya, pal.
--------------------
--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
|
Enig
super member
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 160
Loc: NW GA, U.S.A.
|
|
Listen, I hate to bring this thread back up, but I don't think I'll be able to experience a release from it until I just come out and say:
I'm very sorry for being such an idiot in it. 
And to make it worse, I'll probably even wind up using a "checklist" before it's all over! My Wife often tells me that I always wind up contradicting myself. 
While I honestly do feel the way that I've expressed (however poorly), I sure do hope some of the folks will forgive me for the flaws in my delivery.
--------------------
Nekkid Eyes!
12x50 Binoculars
8" Newtonian / Dobsonian Telescope (Stock Zhumell Z8)
|
panhard
Mongo
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 5213
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
|
|
You are forgiven. I went out the other night with a list. I only got to see about half of what was on the list & a few things that weren't on the list. Last night was the Moon and Jupiter & I didn't get either one. The darn clouds where in the way. I agree with your point of things sometimes being too regimented. I just like to get out under the stars and forget about everything else even time. When I go out my wife always say when will you be back. My stock answer is when I get back. She worries too much.
--------------------
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Quote:
When I go out my wife always say when will you be back. My stock answer is when I get back. She worries too much.
Same here and my arrival home is usually so quiet that the first time she notices I'm there is when waking at 8am the next morning
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
aa5te
Genial Procrastinator
Reged: 08/30/08
Posts: 429
Loc: Clinton, TN
|
|
I'm not knocking either users of lists or not (I usually make a short mental list when I'm here at home before I go out using Stellarium and Starry Night), but, if you go from an orange site to a grey/black one, a list may be almost worthless if you haven't been there in a while - you're just overwhelmed and too excited with what you want to look at simply because of all the stuff you can see naked eye - your priorities change quickly!
--------------------
Shane
Binos: Apogee 25x100 / Burgess Optical 25x100 / Pentax 20x60 PCF WP / Tasco InFocus 10x50
Tripods: Sunpak PlatinumPlus Ultra 7500TM / Quickset Samson
Refractors: Meade DS-2102AT-TC 102mm f/7.8; Sears Discoverer 3 (4454) 80mm f/15; Jason 313 Discoverer 60mm f/15.2
Reflectors (Dob): Hardin Optical DSH10 10" f/5
EP's: Zoom: Zhumell 8-24mm & Circle K 7.5-22.5mm 0.965"; 9-52mm Plössls; Zhumell 2x barlow
Kodak Z760; Orion SteadyPix camera mount; Orion LaserMate Deluxe Collimator
|
AlanK
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/26/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
|
|
Nah, that just makes me want to get the deeper lists out 
--------------------
Clear skies!
18 inch f4.5 Obsession #1637
12 inch f5.4 reflector
Just another frozen astronomer
Kumeu Observatory
Auckland NZ
7,276 deep sky objects incl 4,670 ngcs
Who dares - observes!
|
|
8 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: desertstars, werewolf6977, ClownFish
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 870
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 