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Chris Greene
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 535
Loc: Dark Sky, Idaho
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I also posted this on the Q yahoo group and feel almost embarrassed to ask for help with this but here goes:
OK, so I've decided to keep my late model Q which I'd bought primarliy for lunar and planetary viewing but also for occasional double star viewing, etc.
Now, I'm primarily a refractor guy and have a couple Tele Vue scopes and use the Starbeam for my starhopping or to simply point to where I know something is.
Last night, I took the Q out intending to look at a couple doubles and, hopefully, M51, M81 and M82, and M13. Even though I know exactly where these things are, I couldn't get the Q pointed at them. I couldn't even train it on Albireo and tried all sorts of gyrations to get it into the FOV! While I've got a 24mm Brandon coming, I was using my 16mm in the scope. First, I polar aligned it and had a lot of trouble getting it pointed to what I wanted to see and never could get it at Albireo even though I had no trouble getting to Vega and looking at the double double there. I then went to alt-az mode and still could not line the dang thing up properly. It was frustrating to say the least although the couple things I did manage to train it one were simply dandy.
I'm not a setting circle guy and other than tracking planets or the moon, polar aligning is not really important to my visual use although I do polar align for solar system use.
I guess what I'm wondering is how best to get this thing into a point and shoot mode. I read something about someone attaching a GLP to the dew shield but mine is a tad loose and attaching things to a Q like that seem wrong somehow. Anyone have some tips for me to point the objective at what I want to see?
I'm using a Manfrotto 475 tripod and 501 head for the mount. I'm hesitant to sink the money into a Tristand however if I can't use this a little better than I am at the moment.
Thanks for any thoughts!
-------------------- Tele Vue Pronto/Telepod
Tele Vue NP-101/Gibraltar/Sky Tour
Questar 3.5 Standard
Celestron FS 80 EQ WA
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars
Nikon SE 8x32 binoculars
Zeiss Victory 10x25 binoculars
Garrett 25x100 IF binoculars
Manfrotto 475B/501
TV and Pentax ep's
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ColoHank
sage
   
Reged: 06/07/07
Posts: 481
Loc: western Colorado
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Compared with your refractors, the Q has a narrow field of view, so it can be a challenge to locate objects through the main optical tube alone. Basic polar alignment and the use of setting circles, however, will get you where you want to go, and pretty quickly. It takes me only a couple of minutes to be up and running. Much quicker, I might add, than all of the shenanigans I've seen go-to scope owners fuss with.
I would advise you to first point one of the tripod legs toward either north or south, and then level your tripod. Mount the Q on the tilt-head and incline the tilt-head to conform to your local latitude. Degrees of tilt equals latitude, and is measured from the vertical . With the declination circle set at +90°, carefully center Polaris in your field of view using first the viewfinder and then your 16mm eyepiece. Adjust the tilt-head and/or rotate it only for this procedure; declination should remain set at +90°. Centering on Polaris also serves to calibrate your declination circle, since it is directly indexed to the orientation of the optical tube. After Polaris is centered to your satisfaction, turn on the clock drive and swing the scope around in right ascension to any star near the celestial equator in the southern sky whose coordinates you know. Center that star in the viewfinder, as above, and then, without changing the orientation of the optical tube, rotate the right ascension circle until the index pointer aligns with the star's known coordinates. Done!
Since Polaris isn't precisely in line with the Earth's axis of rotation, you'll always have a bit of pointing and tracking error when relying solely on the basic alignment method. Even so, you'll often see your target in the eyepiece. If not, flip the lever and look for it close to the center of the field in your viewfinder. Don't sell the viewfinder short. I enjoy scanning the skies with it looking for bright spots, and am usually pleasantly surprised when I home-in on them.
I've attached a picture of a simple wedge I made to mount on my old Bogen 3030 tripod (after removing the elevator and tilt-head mechanisms). You might want to consider something like that to make your life easier and ensure a more stable and secure mount for your Q.
There are also more precise and time consuming methods of polar alignment that will significantly reduce locating and tracking errors.
Of course, if you don't want to bother with polar alignment and calibration of the RA circle, you can locate objects by scanning the night sky with the viewfinder and then flipping over to the main tube. The scope won't track if you opt to do that, but the slow-motion controls should help keep you on target.
Good luck!
Edited by ColoHank (06/24/09 10:23 AM)
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SATMAN
sage
Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 269
Loc: NJ 39.7 lat., -74.3 long
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Chris, the standard Questar finder does take a getting used to, You Have to remember that the field of view is about 2-1/2 degrees with your 16 mm brandon eyepiece, In the 32 mm Brandon it is approximately 5 degrees (see page 36 in your owners manual eyepiece magnification and field of view) To best visualize the field of view set up and point at polaris, the field of stars gives you an approximate size of the view, it is narrower than 10x40 binoculars! The easiest way is to use the widest field view eyepiece that you have . One trick is to sight along the top of the barrel of the OTA (optical Tube Assembly) and then look thru the finder. It takes a little practice. You can always sweep in RA (Right Ascension=east to west) and declination until you come across the object. this what I do and I star hop to where I want to go. To polar align use the finder to find polaris ,Keep the Q at 90 degrees declination only adjust the center leg or if using a Tristand ajust the stands polar axis to read your latitude. Center Polaris in the field of view with the finder, then switch to telescope normal view recenter then use the barlow, recenter at the higher magnification. rotate the Q in RA only if it is centered there should be only a little bit of shift in the position of polaris. This should give you rough alignment. point the Q at a bright star that you know look up its RA in hours. set the hour circle to align with the current RA with your scope pointed at this star turn on the drive, the alignment indicater for RA hour is located below the eyepiece on the hour circle, align with the line in the plastic indicator. You can now find anything by using the manual setting circles. Just be patient and take your time each time you use you telescope this will become easier each time you use it.
-------------------- CELESTRON/VIXEN C102 GP REFRACTOR
CELESTRON SUPER C8 PLUS
VIXEN 90 CUSTOM REFRACTOR ALTAZ. MOUNT
QUESTAR 3.5 STANDARD POWER GUIDE II ON TRISTAND
CORONADO PST DOUBLE STACKED
BRANDON 94mm f/7 ON VIXEN POLARIS MOUNT
VIXEN PORTA MOUNT, QUARTER HALF HITCH MOUNT
BRANDON EYEPIECE SET (circa 1986) 8,12,16,24,32, 2.4X DAKIN BARLOW
VARIOUS NAGLERS 3-6 ZOOM,7,9,11,13,16,24PANOPTIC
ETHOS 6mm, 10mm
ZEISS 10X40B/GA T*P* BINOCULARS
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SATMAN
sage
Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 269
Loc: NJ 39.7 lat., -74.3 long
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looks like colohank bet me to it when I was correcting my spelling.
-------------------- CELESTRON/VIXEN C102 GP REFRACTOR
CELESTRON SUPER C8 PLUS
VIXEN 90 CUSTOM REFRACTOR ALTAZ. MOUNT
QUESTAR 3.5 STANDARD POWER GUIDE II ON TRISTAND
CORONADO PST DOUBLE STACKED
BRANDON 94mm f/7 ON VIXEN POLARIS MOUNT
VIXEN PORTA MOUNT, QUARTER HALF HITCH MOUNT
BRANDON EYEPIECE SET (circa 1986) 8,12,16,24,32, 2.4X DAKIN BARLOW
VARIOUS NAGLERS 3-6 ZOOM,7,9,11,13,16,24PANOPTIC
ETHOS 6mm, 10mm
ZEISS 10X40B/GA T*P* BINOCULARS
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Ed Kessler
scholastic sledgehammer
  
Reged: 05/17/06
Posts: 826
Loc: Millersburg, PA
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Hank,
That's a really nice looking wedge. It's time to pull out my tools.
-------------------- Ed Kessler
Televue NP127is, Borg 101ED,
Coronado SM60, 1961 Questar Standard (updated with new optics and a Powerglide II Retrofit, 2009)
16" "Jeff Counsil Dob"
Vixen VMC200L
Pentax XO, XP, SMC Orthos, Vernonscope Brandons
Televue 2-4mm Zoom, 13mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 35mm Panoptic;
TAK 32mm MC Erfle; 25mm and 15mm Zeiss Microscope Eyepieces
sic itur ad astra (Just to look profound!)
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Rat8bug
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 01/07/05
Posts: 1471
Loc: Michigan
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Well, I suggest getting more acquainted with the Questar Dec and RA circles. These larger circles make finding objects easy imo. And you do not have to have a precise polar alignment (although the more accurate the better). I suggest getting an eyepiece that has illuminated crosshairs, or using the Questar 40-80x (one of my favorites), that has the NSEW pointers, so you can eyeball the center for polar alignment. And if you don't have the latest Questar manual, I suggest getting that (about $20), as it explains numerous alignment techniques in detail.
http://www.barrie-tao.com/questar1.html
Ciao....Barry
-------------------- Nikon D40/D50/D70 DSLR
WO 105mm Triplet APO
WO Zenithstar 66SD APO (Black 'n Blue)
WO 8 x 45mm APO Bino
UO 20 x 80mm Bino
Vixen 80SS Refractor
Orion 127mm Apex Maksutov
Vixen GP-DX with Skysensor 2000
SBIG STV and e-finder
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Brent
member
   
Reged: 11/18/04
Posts: 67
Loc: NE Missouri
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Quote:
You Have to remember that the field of view is about 2-1/2 degrees with your 16 mm brandon eyepiece, In the 32 mm Brandon it is approximately 5 degrees (see page 36 in your owners manual eyepiece magnification and field of view)
Chris,
Please note that these FOV figures that SATMAN gives are for the Questar with 10X finder (a field scope item used by birders -- I don't know if it's even available for the astro model). For the standard 3-1/2 astro model, the finder will yield closer to the following calculated FOV as per the manual (p. 39 in mine):
32mm Brandon -- 13.46 degrees -- at 3X magnification
24mm Brandon -- 10.09 degrees -- at 4X magnification
16mm Brandon -- 6.73 degrees -- at 7X magnification
12mm Brandon -- 5.05 degrees -- at 9X magnification
8mm Brandon -- 3.36 degrees -- at 13X magnification
Hope this helps clarify.
Clear Skies,
Brent
Edited by Brent (06/24/09 12:06 PM)
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Chris Greene
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 535
Loc: Dark Sky, Idaho
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Thanks Brent, that's what's in my manual too.
I spoke to Jim at Questar this morning and he said that as much as anything, it's a matter of getting used to it and that dimmer objects were harder to pick up visually because the finder doesn't use light gathering optics unlike what I'm used to when I use my refractors.
-------------------- Tele Vue Pronto/Telepod
Tele Vue NP-101/Gibraltar/Sky Tour
Questar 3.5 Standard
Celestron FS 80 EQ WA
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars
Nikon SE 8x32 binoculars
Zeiss Victory 10x25 binoculars
Garrett 25x100 IF binoculars
Manfrotto 475B/501
TV and Pentax ep's
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
   
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13320
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Thanks Brent, that's what's in my manual too.
I spoke to Jim at Questar this morning and he said that as much as anything, it's a matter of getting used to it and that dimmer objects were harder to pick up visually because the finder doesn't use an light gathering optics unlike what I'm used to when I use my refractors.
Yup, the finder objective lens is small and stars beyond 2nd or 3rd magnitude look pretty faint. Light pollution doesn't help. At first I had quite a bit of trouble adjusting to it's limited light grasp, but the more I used the finder and noticed how sharp it was, the better I was able to train my eye to pick out what I wanted to see.
Keep trying and good luck!
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Chris Greene
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 535
Loc: Dark Sky, Idaho
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Yes, I'll keep working with it but may mostly limit the Q's use for what I originally bought it for: solar system observing. No question the finder view certainly is sharp.
-------------------- Tele Vue Pronto/Telepod
Tele Vue NP-101/Gibraltar/Sky Tour
Questar 3.5 Standard
Celestron FS 80 EQ WA
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars
Nikon SE 8x32 binoculars
Zeiss Victory 10x25 binoculars
Garrett 25x100 IF binoculars
Manfrotto 475B/501
TV and Pentax ep's
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JimK
sage
   
Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Albuquerque, NM USA
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At one time I also could not easily use the telescope in finder mode. Why - as others have said I think it was because only the very bright stars could be seen and because of the left-right shift of the view and because of the very large part of the sky seen with such a small angular field of view. Whew...
Anyway, with practice, and some sighting aids, I have gotten better at using the finder mode.
First, I used a Rigel QuikFinder red-dot unity finder that I attached with rubber bands (temporarily) to the dew shield. It really worked well, but I got tired of crouching behind the scope to use it after five or six nights. But once I could aim the Questar I also looked through the finder and this helped reduce my finder-mode-handicap.
Then, I tried a green laser pointer, based on an idea from LarryV on CloudyNights (link). Two large black rubber gaskets/o-rings/bushings were obtained such that the hole would accept the pointer and a notch could be cut on the outside of the rubber. The notches allow for a degree of axial alignment. The rubber gaskets were placed at each end of the pointer with the notch down. To use it the pointer was placed lightly against the dew shield and thus it would point to the general area in the sky where the scope was aimed. Then I could move the scope or check things in the finder mode.
Sooooo, now I am better at using the finder mode because of practice and assists from some other aids. And I know I can use the green laser pointer if I get really confused again.
Perhaps this may give you some ideas to consider.
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Chris Greene
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 535
Loc: Dark Sky, Idaho
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My 24mm Brandon arrived today. Depending on the weather, I'll see if that helps any.
-------------------- Tele Vue Pronto/Telepod
Tele Vue NP-101/Gibraltar/Sky Tour
Questar 3.5 Standard
Celestron FS 80 EQ WA
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars
Nikon SE 8x32 binoculars
Zeiss Victory 10x25 binoculars
Garrett 25x100 IF binoculars
Manfrotto 475B/501
TV and Pentax ep's
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Chris Greene
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 535
Loc: Dark Sky, Idaho
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The wider field of the Brandon 24mm has helped with a couple items but the, for all intents and purposes, non-enhanced finder still makes fainter objects difficult. I intend to try some sort of pointer on a spare dewshield I'm expecting from Q or will, as I said, stick to using it for the things it excels at; solar system and brighter deep sky objects.
-------------------- Tele Vue Pronto/Telepod
Tele Vue NP-101/Gibraltar/Sky Tour
Questar 3.5 Standard
Celestron FS 80 EQ WA
Canon 10x30 IS binoculars
Nikon SE 8x32 binoculars
Zeiss Victory 10x25 binoculars
Garrett 25x100 IF binoculars
Manfrotto 475B/501
TV and Pentax ep's
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Matt Looby
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/09/03
Posts: 828
Loc: Wadhams, NY
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Hi Group, I use a very sturdy folding work bench as the observing platform. I really perfer table top observing as it is much more comfortable. The set up time is rapid and polar alignment is easy.
I like to set the R.A. Circle to Vega or Altaire.. I do a quick reference check to another bright star.. and that's it.. the scope is set and finding objects is much easier and certainly quicker.. I am an experienced observer for the most part and have no difficulty finding my targets for the evening..
Having owned the Tri-stand(s) and a heavy duty tripod... I like the simplicity of table-top observing, as it is easier to draw and use my pocket atlas..
Hope this helps,
Matt
-------------------- CN GALLERY
6" F/8 Newtonian
3.5" Mak-Cass
7x50 Binolux Binoculars
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