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claytonjandl11
super member
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 164
Loc: East Bay, N. Ca.
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Hi,
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope. I have never done this list though I know I've seen some of these DSO with other scopes I've had in the past.
I have 2 questions. 1: Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard, which has about mag.5 sky, all the major stars in the constelations are visible naked eye. 80% of the time the seeing is below average but on the other hand 80% of the time the transperency is averge or better.
2: Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
Thanks,
Nick T. 
--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3468
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope...
Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard, which has about mag.5 sky
I'm sure that you can see most of the Herschel 400 from your backyard through that scope, though many of them will be pretty lackluster. But I'm quite confident that you won't see the very faintest of them. It should be possible -- though quite challenging -- from a truly dark site.
Quote:
Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
For starters, you could just sort the list by magnitude. Or you could undertake the RASC 110, which is a much shorter and more glamorous list.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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121601
super member
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Hi,
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope. 1: Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard...?
2: Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
Thanks,
Nick T.
Nick,
I would concentrate on the H400 star clusters and brighter objects. Log on
the Stellarvue Yahoo group and find the file "list041406" below. The file also has the page of the H400 object on S&T Sky Pocket Atlas.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stellarvue/files/
Some DSOs, particularly galaxies, will be challenging. We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession. That H400 object is well placed now so you can see for yourself. I have my doubts if you could see all of them from the SF East Bay area or (Mt. Diablo).
I would also recommend Steve O'Meara's Herschel 400 Observing Guide which include a "difficulty scale".
Judging from your current scope list, you've come a long way from your 15" Obsession and Starmasters to refractor land.
Clears,
Renato
--------------------
"..And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should..(Desiderata)"
Edited by 121601 (07/15/09 09:07 PM)
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10494
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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You may also want to have a look at Vic Menard's 400 List, which is a best of list that also includes binary and carbon stars.
http://x.astrogeek.org/observations/list.php?list_id=14
Dave Mitsky
--------------------
Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3468
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession.
Odd! I found NGC 6118 quite challenging when I first located it through my 7-inch Dob from my country home in the yellow zone (SQM around 21.0, limiting magnitude typically between 6.0 and 6.5). Intermittently visible with averted vision, but always in the same location and at the same orientation, so a positive ID.
But in my 12.5-inch Dob from the same location, NGC 6118 is not especially hard to locate, and I can even hold it with direct vision.
Jay Reynolds Freeman claims to have seen it through his 55-mm refractor. But although I'm sure that he saw the overwhelming majority of the Herschel 400 through that scope, I have doubts about this particular observation and a couple of others.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Maine
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Odd, yes. In my 140 a month ago: "Not visible @ 26x. @67x faint smudge. At 100x tough. Low surface brightness. Med. Size, no central brightening. NELM 6."
It's listed at 11.7 mag so with a little persistence and the right skies it should be doable with a 4".
Jim
--------------------
Vixen 140 refractor
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stevecoe
"Astronomical Tourist"
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 2642
Loc: Arizona, USA
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There is a big difference between "seeing" an object and "detecting" an object. If you are interested in pushing your scope and the best nights to their limits then 4 inches of aperture can "detect" many objects, but there will be little detail.
Personally, I find this un-interesting after a while. I will do three or four of these types of objects and then swing over to the Lagoon or a Messier globular, just to find something I can really see.
Clear skies to us all;
Steve Coe
--------------------
TeleVue 102 refractor on CGEM mount
10 inch f/4.7 Newtonian
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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palsing
super member
Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 137
Loc: Poway, CA
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Quote:
Hi,
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor...
I've always liked this list, it is easy to cherry-pick the brighter objects;
http://www.1000plus.com/2000plus/
--------------------
Paul
25" Obsession
5.5" Newt - finder (Cometcatcher)
Hutech 22 X 100 binos w/LPS-P2 filters
Canon 10 X 30 IS binos
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JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 234
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
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Quote:
Personally, I find this un-interesting after a while. I will do three or four of these types of objects and then swing over to the Lagoon or a Messier globular, just to find something I can really see.
That is one of the beauties of observing - all do it in their own way. I find it totally uninteresting to check out bright objects that I've seen a billion times before. I do however get some little satisfaction in being able to detect objects with a little telescope that others say are impossible to see in a telescope 2-3 times the size.
But it's all fun!
/Jake
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5665
Loc: Inner Solar System
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My copy of "1000+" is by "Tom" Lorenzin - when did he become "Tomm"?
--------------------
- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Maine
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Steve:
>There is a big difference between "seeing" an object and "detecting" an object. If you are interested in pushing your scope and the best nights to their limits then 4 inches of aperture can "detect" many objects, but there will be little detail.<
Okaaaay, but you use what you gots. Your statement is valid no matter what you use for an instrument, bino's to Hubble.
The folks w/12"+ stay busy teasing out faint galaxy arms, us little guys tease out dust bunnies. All fun stuff.
Clear skies,
Jim
--------------------
Vixen 140 refractor
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claytonjandl11
super member
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 164
Loc: East Bay, N. Ca.
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|
Quote:
Quote:
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope...
Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard, which has about mag.5 sky
I'm sure that you can see most of the Herschel 400 from your backyard through that scope, though many of them will be pretty lackluster. But I'm quite confident that you won't see the very faintest of them. It should be possible -- though quite challenging -- from a truly dark site.
Quote:
Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
For starters, you could just sort the list by magnitude. Or you could undertake the RASC 110, which is a much shorter and more glamorous list.
Thanks Tony, I downloaded the RASC 110 list, looks to be quite a fun list.
Nick T.
--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4
|
claytonjandl11
super member
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 164
Loc: East Bay, N. Ca.
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hi,
In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope. 1: Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard...?
2: Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
Thanks,
Nick T.
Nick,
I would concentrate on the H400 star clusters and brighter objects. Log on
the Stellarvue Yahoo group and find the file "list041406" below. The file also has the page of the H400 object on S&T Sky Pocket Atlas.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stellarvue/files/
Some DSOs, particularly galaxies, will be challenging. We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession. That H400 object is well placed now so you can see for yourself. I have my doubts if you could see all of them from the SF East Bay area or (Mt. Diablo).
I would also recommend Steve O'Meara's Herschel 400 Observing Guide which include a "difficulty scale".
Judging from your current scope list, you've come a long way from your 15" Obsession and Starmasters to refractor land.
Clears,
Renato
Hi Renato,
Downloaded that list also, and I do have O'Meara's book and I'm reading it now. Yes I've gone from a 20" SM down to an SV 80mm and still have those other refractors, of those scopes the 80mm is the most used scope, for it's the easiest to set up and take down in a moments notice. Most of the time I only have about an hour to an hour and a half to do any observing, and after having a 20" scope I'm still impressed at what I can still see with my little 80mm.
Nick T.
--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4
|
claytonjandl11
super member
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 164
Loc: East Bay, N. Ca.
|
|
Quote:
You may also want to have a look at Vic Menard's 400 List, which is a best of list that also includes binary and carbon stars.
http://x.astrogeek.org/observations/list.php?list_id=14
Dave Mitsky
Hi Dave,
Great site, plus I like the fact that there are other lists on there also, those will definately keep me busy.
Thanks,
Nick T.
--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4
|
Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10494
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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|
Quote:
Quote:
We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession.
Odd! I found NGC 6118 quite challenging when I first located it through my 7-inch Dob from my country home in the yellow zone (SQM around 21.0, limiting magnitude typically between 6.0 and 6.5). Intermittently visible with averted vision, but always in the same location and at the same orientation, so a positive ID.
But in my 12.5-inch Dob from the same location, NGC 6118 is not especially hard to locate, and I can even hold it with direct vision.
Jay Reynolds Freeman claims to have seen it through his 55-mm refractor. But although I'm sure that he saw the overwhelming majority of the Herschel 400 through that scope, I have doubts about this particular observation and a couple of others.
NGC 6118 was impossible to see, despite repeated attempts, using the 17" classical Cassegrain at the ASH Naylor Observatory and a friend's 20" classical Cassegrain at a private observatory with somewhat darker skies and that was back in the latter part of the mid-1990s when Naylor had a better VLM.
I finally logged NGC 6118 using an 8" Newtonian at Stellafane.
Dave Mitsky
--------------------
Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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claytonjandl11
super member
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 164
Loc: East Bay, N. Ca.
|
|
Quote:
There is a big difference between "seeing" an object and "detecting" an object. If you are interested in pushing your scope and the best nights to their limits then 4 inches of aperture can "detect" many objects, but there will be little detail.
Personally, I find this un-interesting after a while. I will do three or four of these types of objects and then swing over to the Lagoon or a Messier globular, just to find something I can really see.
Clear skies to us all;
Steve Coe
Hi Steve,
I understand what you mean and can see your point, yet I still enjoy the thrill and challenge of the hunt. BTW I've read your book on nebulas and have enjoyed it very much. I also like to observe dark nebulas (Bernard), do you or anyone else out there know of a link for a list of all the Bernard dark nebulas, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Nick T. 
--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4
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Astraforce Paul
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1879
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Appreciate the various links posted in this thread!
Steve, I share your view, especially if we're just ticking off nondescript faint fuzzies on a list, one after another, rapidfire.
By the way, I've appreciate the fine work you've done on cataloging and documenting the goodies up there. Your efforts have been a great contribution and show that the choice isn't between the faintest of the faint (many H400) and the best and brightest (top Messiers).
-------------------------------
In case anyone isn't familiar with his work, Steve's the powerhouse behind the many Saguaro Astronomy Club's observing lists, which cover a vast range of interesting objects and are well worth pursuing.
Saguaro Astronomy Club Observing Databases
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3468
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
I find it totally uninteresting to check out bright objects that I've seen a billion times before. I do however get some little satisfaction in being able to detect objects with a little telescope that others say are impossible to see in a telescope 2-3 times the size.
And I like both.
Think of it this way. When you're viewing a bright object -- really studying it, not just glancing at it -- you are in fact looking for faint details *within* that bright object that are barely visible in whatever scope you're using. So you get the benefit of a gee-whiz view at the same time that you're straining the limits of your vision.
As for looking at things too often, I'm sure that I've viewed M42 hundreds of times, and I certainly haven't run out of new things to see in it.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
|
Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1533
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Quote:
The folks w/12"+ stay busy teasing out faint galaxy arms
If M51 counts for faint galaxy arms then I've managed to make them out using a 60/1000mm refractor with a Meade 14mm UWA eyepiece at 71x. From my notes:
July 12, 2009 NELM: 5.25mag skies (direct vision)
Seeing: 8/10 Transparency: 9/10
M51 & NGC 5195: 14mm UWA w/averted vision brought out the spiral structure of M51 and the bright core of NGC 5195. Amazing detail for such a small instrument!
--------------------
Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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Lard Greystoke
sage
Reged: 07/27/08
Posts: 377
Loc: Ohio
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For those of us who are not extremists, I think a nice mix of showpieces, faint fuzzies, "the hunt", the familiar, and the occasional planet or Moon provide a good variety of challenge and esthetics. Even including failures in the program helps sharpen the edges of success: not seeing something at all is hardly esthetic, but it teaches you the difference between observation and imagination; I think some do not work very hard at this.
Regarding 6118, I think the distribution of light within an object is not given proper importance. Galaxies with bright cores, bright arms, bars, or even bright HII regions provide the eye with a hook to catch on to; if the light is evenly smeared through small core and indistinct arms it can be very difficult whatever the overall magnitude.
6118, anyway, I find a beastly object. Typically magnification helps in small faint galaxies; but I have seen it once, and only once, at 84x and at no higher or lower power in a sub-optimal 10".
--------------------
Lard Greystoke
10" Odyssey Compact
"With Tantor, the elephant, he made friends. How? Ask me not."
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