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lemonsensation
journeyman


Reged: 07/17/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Maryland
ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new
      #3226645 - 07/19/09 12:23 PM

I tried using the built in Barlow for my ETX 80. I could not get it to work. I switch the barlow on. Then I turn the focus knob all the way from end to end and nothing would focus.

Here's some of the things I noticed and keep in mine I saw all these things without seeing a single star:
-It gets a lot darker.
-The view range is a lot smaller.
-In some cases the view which is the circle is off centered or even partially cut off because it is so off centered.
-I could kind of see something like eyelashes.
-On one occasion I could see dark stuff traveling across the view kind of like a bug.

Do you have any tips or advice? Can I also try it during the day (not looking at the sun) to test out the barlow make sure it works?

--------------------
John

[image]http://cleardarksky.com/c/MCAOobMDcs0.gif?1[/image]


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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2113
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: lemonsensation]
      #3226679 - 07/19/09 12:47 PM

Sounds to me like you already have a very high power eyepiece in. In these circumstances you're just magnifying the fuzz caused by diffraction & seeing effects, superimposing on them the defects in your own eye: eyelashes & floaters, we all have them and they become painfully apparent if the exit pupil is reduced too much. That's why restricting the magnification to 30x per inch makes sense. Occasionally you may be able to use 50x per inch but no more than that.

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Quads
sage


Reged: 09/07/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Central Sands, Wisconsin
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: brianb11213]
      #3226708 - 07/19/09 01:06 PM

Try the Moon first, or some faraway daytime object. Make sure you are switching the barlow and not the knob that operates the mirror. Use the 26mm eyepiece until you get a feel for it. The focus knob has to be turned many, many times when switching the barlow on and off and it is easy to roll past the focus point without realizing it. Once I figured out where the approximate focus points were with the barlow on and off, I put a mark at each spot on the tube to help find it quicker.

--------------------
I'm a "just for fun" photographer that also takes nighttime sky pictures.

Meade ETX-80AT-TC-BB
Canon PowerShot SX100 IS
Affordable Astrophotography
Powered by Ni-MH Rechargeable Batteries


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Treehopper
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 582
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: lemonsensation]
      #3226717 - 07/19/09 01:09 PM

Once you understand the way a Barlow works, some of your questions may answer themselves.

A Barlow injects a new series of optics into the path of light, optically "stretching" that path by the power of the Barlow (in the case of the 80's built-in Barlow, two times, or 2x.) This has the effect of increasing the focal length of the instrument (and hence, the magnification), but it also increases your f/ratio by the same power. Meaning, in this case, you go from an f/5 to an f/10.

This would explain why it got a lot darker. And as your magnification goes up, your field of view is decreased, which is why your "view range" appeared smaller.

Now, to be perfectly honest (and I love my 80), they could have left the built-in Barlow off entirely and I would have been perfectly happy. Other than visually assessing when I looked through the diagonal without an eyepiece that the Barlow element was actually engaging and disengaging, I've never used it and probably never will. I have a perfectly functional Barlow tube that will not alter the focus as dramatically as the built-in one does.

As far as seeing eyelashes...if you were attempting to use a low eye-relief (typically higher powered) eyepiece, you may have been pressing your own eyelashes up against the top element of the eyepiece in an attempt to see something... anything...through the scope. It sounds almost like you might have pushed the effective magnification limit for the scope past its boundary. In other words, if you were trying to engage the Barlow AND use a high powered EP, it would take you beyond the optical resolving limits of the scope. For all practical purposes, the upper limit is generally around 50x per inch of aperture (or around 2x per millimeter) under ideal seeing conditions. For some reason, Meade states in its specs that it's somewhere around 230x, but it would be a rare night indeed to have conditions that allowed that with any amount of clarity.

By all means, test the scope during the day! This is how you'll get familiar with it! In fact, to train and calibrate the motors, it's highly recommended that you do so while focusing on a distant, earth-bound object like a sign-post or telephone pole during daylight hours. This will give you an opportunity to test that Barlow out if you like, although keep in mind, what you see in broad daylight with the Barlow engaged may not reflect similar results you'll get on celestial objects at night. In all candor, you'd be better off leaving the built-in Barlow disengaged and investing in a decent quality Barlow tube. I wouldn't recommend going above a 2x, but that's just me.

Try using your low power (26mm) EP during the day with the Barlow and let us know how that works for you.

--------------------
Tim

Champion of small aperture scopes everywhere!

Meade ETX-125PE
Meade ETX-80
Celestron FirstScope 76mm Mini-dob

Updated: 09/16/2009


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jgraham
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6763
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: Treehopper]
      #3226967 - 07/19/09 03:54 PM

As you switch the Barlow in and out look down into the draw tube and make sure it's moving all the in and out. With my ETX-60BB I usually just use a shorty 2x Barlow as I don't have to change the focus nearly as much.

--------------------
-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors


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lemonsensation
journeyman


Reged: 07/17/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Maryland
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: jgraham]
      #3227213 - 07/19/09 06:38 PM

Ok so I tried it out during the day on land objects. The built in barlow does work. I'm going to have to try it at night the next chance I get. I was probably over magnified and at another point I was probably focusing it too quickly and passed it.

--------------------
John

[image]http://cleardarksky.com/c/MCAOobMDcs0.gif?1[/image]


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KWB
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 9268
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question new [Re: lemonsensation]
      #3227275 - 07/19/09 07:29 PM

Hi

Were you trying to use the barlow with the 6.4mm plossl? The focus point between different focal length eyepieces is a pain in the rear IMO. The objective lens moves back and forth to achieve focus and may indeed have not been anywhere near the focus point.

--------------------
Kenny


"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein











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lemonsensation
journeyman


Reged: 07/17/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Maryland
Re: ETX 80 Built In Barlow Question [Re: KWB]
      #3227621 - 07/19/09 11:54 PM

Yes I had trouble with the 9.7mm and a 26mm the first night. I just tested it again (second night) and only tried it with the 26mm and the Barlow does work.

Switching the Barlow on and off is a pain because I had to keep adjusting the focus which requires many turns of the knob. My fingers got really tired at one point.

I can imagine switching barlows on and off and then also switching eyepieces will take some getting use to because of all the focusing involved.

--------------------
John

[image]http://cleardarksky.com/c/MCAOobMDcs0.gif?1[/image]


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