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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Last night I was trying to find the Helix Nebula, but without luck. I thought I had seen it referred to somewhere as one of the largest planetaries, but maybe it is too dim to see? 
I'm using a 10" newtonian, my light pollution is about 7-8, and I don't have a nebula filter yet. Is it possible to glimpse it with this equipment, or should I just wait until I buy a filter? (Please, wallet fairies, send money!  )
Also, can you help me star-hop to the Helix? Do you have a quick trick to get there? I was in the right area near upsilon Aqr, but the Pocket Sky Atlas unfortunately has a page split right there, making lines and angles a little tough to judge.
I finally gave up and took a look at Jupiter. Has anyone else noticed that it has a black spot on it? 
(just kidding!  Way to go Bird on an awesome discovery!  )
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8287
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Last night I was trying to find the Helix Nebula, but without luck. I thought I had seen it referred to somewhere as one of the largest planetaries, but maybe it is too dim to see?
I'm using a 10" newtonian, my light pollution is about 7-8, and I don't have a nebula filter yet. Is it possible to glimpse it with this equipment, or should I just wait until I buy a filter? (Please, wallet fairies, send money! )
Also, can you help me star-hop to the Helix? Do you have a quick trick to get there? I was in the right area near upsilon Aqr, but the Pocket Sky Atlas unfortunately has a page split right there, making lines and angles a little tough to judge.
I finally gave up and took a look at Jupiter. Has anyone else noticed that it has a black spot on it?
(just kidding! Way to go Bird on an awesome discovery! )
Hi there. The Helix is big and fairly bright, although its very large size (half the size of the full moon) makes its surface brightness rather low. I have seen it using a pair of 7x35 binoculars from a dark sky site (Zenith Limiting Magnitude of 6.5), but without a filter, it can sometimes be a little hard to see initially in the scope. What you may see at low power is a somewhat diffuse ghostly ring with a few faint stars around it. A narrow band "nebula" filter (like the DGM Optics NPB or Orion Ultrablock) will definitely make it easier to see, revealing some vague detail when used in scopes larger than eight inches. You can star-hop to it by using a faint narrow triangle of stars consisting of Tau-1 Aquarii, Delta Aquarii, and 5th magnitude Upsilon Aquarii. The Helix is just about a degree west and very slightly south of Upsilon. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 638
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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According to my notes the Helix was visible in my old 8x50 finder, appearing as a small round hazy patch of light. Using a 10" SCT the object is easily seen. It is large, very large; appearing as a grey foggy smokey ring with uneven edges. Averted vision will help--and a nebula filter will bring out dark lanes. This observation was made from a very dark site in the country.
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Last night I was trying to find the Helix Nebula, but without luck. I thought I had seen it referred to somewhere as one of the largest planetaries, but maybe it is too dim to see?
I'm using a 10" newtonian, my light pollution is about 7-8, and I don't have a nebula filter yet.
From a dark site, with a nebula filter, this is a very striking object to an experienced observer, and probably readily visible even to a novice.
From a dark site without a filter, it's obvious to an experienced observer, but I suspect that many beginners would have trouble believing that they were really seeing anything.
From near the center of a major city, I would expect it to be completely invisible with or without a filter. From a darkish suburb, challenging with a filter.
Aperture doesn't matter much for detecting this particular object. Under dark skies, I find it very obvious in 7x35 binoculars. And I can imagine someone spotting it naked-eye. The issue here is surface brightness (brightness per unit area), not total brightness.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1134
Loc: Austin, TX
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Yea, you'll need to get out of the city to see this one. From a dark sky site, it's a very nice object. Some of the best dark sky sites in the entire country are in Texas. Maybe I can show it to ya, moving to Austin next week 
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John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos
Edited by tatarjj (07/27/09 04:02 AM)
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PeterSurma
super member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 122
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
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Hi Tim,
just get a filter for emission nebulae, OIII preferably for your 10". It's required (or at least very favourable!) for lots of objects (especially with LP): Cirrus, Northamerica Neb, most of PNe and emission nebulae... Then go hunting again. 2inch filter would be nice for supporting wide-angle work (Cirrus, Northamerica,...) with 2inch EPs, but 1.25" also works of course.
Good luck
Peter
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Peter
Web: http://www.eyes4skies.de/home_EnglishVersion.htm
Scopes: From 3inch photographic APO to 20inch f/4 Dob
Edited by PeterSurma (07/27/09 03:46 PM)
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Estonia
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Would this object be observable from a murky 10 degrees?
I've always wanted to try, but it's a bit southerly for me.
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10516
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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I read somewhere that seeing the Helix naked-eye is used as a test of transparency in Australia.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5028
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Drive to a very dark site and you won't need a nebula filter, but the skies have to be clear and dark. From such a site, this object will show up in binoculars and finder scopes. This object is half the size of the full moon, and thus it's magnitude of 6.5 is deceptive. The easiest way to star hop to it is start with the star Delta Aqaurii or Skat, which is a third magnitude star due north of Fomalhaut, the only bright star in the area. Move southwest to the wide pair of stars, 66 and 68 Aquarii, then to Upsilon Aquarii. These stars form a skinny right triangle with NGC-7293 just to the west of the point. It will be large, ghostly and look a lot like a wreath. Use a low power, wide angle eyepiece to look for it, it's not like most planetary nebulae that respond well to high magnifications. Without a narrow band nebula filter, seeing this object with light pollution will be tough or impossible. By the same token if the skies are hazy or lit up by the moon, wait until another time to look for it. If you haven't seen NGC-7009 in Aquarius yet, you can try for that one because it's small and very bright.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thank you everyone for your help! I have a better idea of what to expect now.
tatarjj, welcome to Austin! Hope to meet you sometime.
Several of you mentioned getting a filter. I'm saving for the Zhumell set of 2" filters, and am really looking forward to the improvement of views! I've been trying to find objects without filters so that I'll be able to hop to them easier later.
David and Taras, thanks for the good starhopping hints. And thanks Tony for the descriptions you provided.
Great sketch, Taras! I think part of my problem was I was searching with an eyepiece that gives me 100x. That was fine on 7009 (saturn neb), but was probably too much for this one. I have a couple lower power eyepieces, but my eye astigmatism makes them frustrating to use. I get new glasses this week! Can't wait to try them out in the dark!
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Gunner
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/20/06
Posts: 516
Loc: Bellville,Texas
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Tim
My cousin who lives in Cedar Park has a bit of hard time spoting the Helix from his house but he can using a OIII filter.
I have been with him at Canyon Of the Eagles ( COE ), that where the Austin Astronomical Society has thier observatory, and I see it very easy in my 12" using the filter, I have never tried seeing it from his house though.
If your not already a member of the AAS you might want to give them a try, I have attended a few star parties there and so far everyone I have met has been quite nice and very helpful.
Good luck in your search.
Allen
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Orion 190mm Mak-Newt w/Orion 80ED Guidescope
Orion XT12i w/ Moonlite Cr-2 and Flocked
Orion 8" Reflector Flocked
Orion Atlas EQ-G mount
Orion Autoguider
Orion X-Y Guide Star Finder
Canon EOS Rebel XTi ( un-modified )
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thanks, Allen!
I haven't joined the AAS yet. I visited their observing site at Mansfield Dam once, and hope to make it out to Pedernales Falls sometime. COE is a great site, but the long drive makes it tough to get motivated!
I often don't decide whether to observe until the sun is close to setting and I can see what the clouds are going to do (too many times we've got clouds when the CSC predicts clear!). By that time, staying in the dark field behind my house just sounds more appealing than a long drive, even though the sky quality is worse here.
One moonless night, I'll just have to make an event of it, drive to Pedernales before dark and plan to stay out most of the night and see what I've been missing all this time! 
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 951
Loc: Utah
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Sounds like your on way with the Helix. If you like PN's, another one to try is the Bug Nebula, NGC 6302. It likes 4 degrees due west of Lambda Scorpii. If you have a Telrad Stephen O'Meara has a good suggestion: "place the eastern edge of your Telrad's outermost circle on Lambda Scorpii and the Bug will be on the same circle's western edge."
Easy to spot at 9.6 mag. and when I take it up to 92x the high surface brightness elongates to show the bug shape. It's a bi-polar PN and fun to look at this time of the year. Here is a nice article on the Bug and a char that shows where it is located.
Good luck with the Helix also and filters help, but with the brighter PN's once your eye gets use to seeing them, you'll spot them. You'll find you'll use your filters to confirm many of them and to bring out details. For me they can look like really faint fuzzies in the EP next to the surrounding stars. Bring on the magnification to confirm (on the bright ones) and you'll confirm it by their shape. Filters enhance the experience.
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Jay in Utah
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Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W
Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD
My Blog
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thanks, Jay, I'll definitely take a look at that one.
The first planetary I got to view with leisure was the Ghost of Jupiter in Hydra last winter. Wow, that was cool! Giant blue orb in the eyepiece. Without a filter, I don't usually get much detail, but PNs are great to look at with their ethereal glow.
I appreciate your suggestion, since the Pocket Sky Atlas doesn't let me know which are the bright ones, and sometimes I spend a lot of time hunting something I can't get without a filter.
So now I've got two to try for when I go out next time: the bug in scorpius, the Little Gem in Sagittarius (PNs with names tend to be the brighter ones!), and of course I'll have another go at the Helix.
Thanks all! 
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Jay, I just noticed your avatar again! Is that the Ghost, or a different planetary?
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thought I'd end this thread with a report of SUCCESS! 
I got to a dark site last night, followed everyone's advice, and there it was. Thanks everyone for your help! Now that I've seen it, I'll have to try again and see if it's possible from home.
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 951
Loc: Utah
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Tim,
Sorry, my avatar is of the Ghost of Jupiter and the image is located here. It's about 2/3 of the way down on the right.
Also, in case I didn't share this, here is a list of the seasonal best Planetary Nebula:
Seasonal PN Web Site
If you don't have a filter try the ones at 10.0 mag or less. You should be able to pick these up. Stick with it and once you get to recognize the shape of the PN's you'll find em. Congrats on the Helix at the dark site. Have you found it at home yet?
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Jay in Utah
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Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W
Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD
My Blog
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 4122
Loc: Ireland
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Quote:
Would this object be observable from a murky 10 degrees?
I've always wanted to try, but it's a bit southerly for me.
Hrundi --
Should be possible, but it might not be much to look at. Here are my notes with a 16" SCT from Ireland; the Helix was at about 15° of altitude:
Quote:
NGC7293 Helix 9/29/2006 23:30 UT; Pickering 6, NELM 6, SQM 21.0
16" SCT
Completely invisible in Drogheda's light bloom without filtration. Deep Sky reveals PN, but only in averted vision. Both UHC and OIII allow direct vision, but more difficult in UHC.
Quite fuzzy upper and lower eyelids surround a darker eyeball. Pretty nice, but in the end altitude (and light pollution) degrade the view significantly.
Good luck,
-- Jeff.
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Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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Dont sell a small refractor view short if u have the option - along with an OIII. At 70x thru lousy skies it was barely there - "big fat and flat" - through my little ranger at 18x with an OIII, saw the hole. Wow. I ve mentioned this a few times on these boards because its a classic example of less being more in terms of aperture with light pollution being a spoiler on the big rig.
Pete
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 565
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hey all,
One more follow-up on this thread.
Last night was my first viewing opportunity back at home after going to a dark site, so trying again to find the Helix was on my list.
My skies here are red on the LP scale, and I could barely make it out with an O-III filter, using a low-power eyepiece. I think over-magnification was part of my problem at the beginning of this thread. I didn't know how big it was, and when it fills the FOV, it's invisible.
So, for any beginners under similar LP looking for this one, it is possible, but don't expect it to shine like the ring nebula. This one from my home just gives a satisfying feeling of being able to bag it, but the detail level is underwhelming. For that, dark skies seem to be a requirement.
Happy hunting!
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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