droid
rocketman
Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 4030
Loc: ohio
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Hello all, Im struggling with finding the veil nebula.Hvae in fact never found it on my own.
What Im looking for is a chart of some kind that A) is easy to use, B)is adjusted for a semi light polluted sky ,so the guide stars should be bright enough to be naked eye, and last but not least C)printable on a black and white printer.
Help..... 
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102mm Celestron C102HD
Tasco 7TE5 60mm Classic
Tasco 9TE5 60mm Classic
Celestron Ultima 2000 SCT
Remains of an 8 inch dob
Celestron Comet catcher(orange tube)
1960 Edscorp Space Conquerer 6inch f/8
10x50 Bushnell Binoculars.
11T 4.5 inch Tasco reflector Lunograsso?
60mm Telescope Club
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Droid,
Here's a CHART with the Veil Nebula on it that is indeed a black and white chart. The Veil Nebula is not labeled on this map but its those streaky patches that lay just under M29 slightly to the left. A good O-111 or UHC filter will help greatly to bring out the contrast. If you don't have a filter, it will take some dark skies to see its full beauty. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 463
Loc: Arizona
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Well, without actually attaching a chart to this, I can recommend using 52 Cygni as a starting point, somewhat easily found in a telrad. That star is in the midst of one of the halves of the Veil.
However, looking over the scope selection you show, I would suggest an OIII filter, even for your 8" scope, will greatly increase the likelyhood of you seeing it. 'Without the filter in "semi light polluted skies using an 8" scope"' and 'saw it for the first time' generally aren't put in the same sentence. There are people who can but they are very familiar with the area, have keen eyesight, or, have really, really dark skies. Some find it and then blink the filter in and out to see if any traces are visible w/o the filter.
Enjoy the hunt!
Steven
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Mr. Wizard
Walking on a Dob: http://darkskyobserving.com/MtGraham.html
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
Apache-Sitgreaves Center for Astrophysics
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 718
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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If you have dark skies (about Mag 6) and good transparency, you can easily see it without the OIII filter. I remember the first time I saw it was in a TV102 and I was totally amazed - with a 20mm Nagler, it was a thing of beauty!
I've also tried it on nights of average transparency, and without the filter, it just can't be seen. It doesn't take much haze or light pollution for it to disappear!
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Bill Weir
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 1297
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
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Yup use 52 Cygni. The western portion of the Veil passes right over it. You say you have moderate light pollution. If you can't see 52 Cygni naked eye, then forget about the Veil anyway.
From a reasonably dark site 10X50 Binoculars with an OIII filter will see both sides easily and a hint of the middle.
Bill
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6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar ED II
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want
Observing sessions grand total for 2008, 121.
So far in 2009, 92
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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...Or, as other have mentioned, I can state that you can start at 52 Cygni.  
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3455
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Yup use 52 Cygni. The western portion of the Veil passes right over it. You say you have moderate light pollution. If you can't see 52 Cygni naked eye, then forget about the Veil anyway.
All true. However, the western loop of the Veil is much fainter than the eastern loop. So in light-polluted conditions or in small instruments, its quite possible for the western loop to be invisible while the eastern loop is (relatively) easy to see.
To get to the eastern loop, I sweep from 52 toward the midpoint of the line connecting epsilon and zeta. Go about 3/4 of the way, and there's the loop. It's huge, so it's hard to miss -- assuming that it's visible at all.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Maine
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Use your widest field eyepiece and follow the above advices/directions. If you have an ep that will give a 3deg. view you can see the entire nebula or at least the most prominent sections in one field. In your C102 it should be very nice. Once you've found it you'll wonder how you ever missed it. O3 filter helps a lot but definitely doable without from a dark site.
Jim
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Vixen 140 refractor
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droid
rocketman
Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 4030
Loc: ohio
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I have a 1.25 inch O111 , and a Broad band filter from Orion.The broad band helped with the dumbell, but it didnt do anything for the veil.
The O111 is another problem all together, it seeminly reflects all the extranious light from the area, and hnce showing nothin but only the brightest stars.
I was left in the van over night lst winter, that didnt hurt it did it?
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102mm Celestron C102HD
Tasco 7TE5 60mm Classic
Tasco 9TE5 60mm Classic
Celestron Ultima 2000 SCT
Remains of an 8 inch dob
Celestron Comet catcher(orange tube)
1960 Edscorp Space Conquerer 6inch f/8
10x50 Bushnell Binoculars.
11T 4.5 inch Tasco reflector Lunograsso?
60mm Telescope Club
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Maine
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I can't imagine the cold in Ohio bothering any filter.
Those filters do suck up some light so the bigger the scope the better the results. I've never used it on a 4" (assuming that's what you used). I know in my 140 the Veil is a hazy wisp w/o but really pops with the filter. I've seen the Veil in an 18" Obsession and I almost grabbed my umbrella, I thought rain clouds were moving in :>). Again, dark, transparent skies help.
Jim
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Vixen 140 refractor
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Scott K
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 1407
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Quote:
O111 is another problem all together, it seeminly reflects all the extranious light from the area, and hnce showing nothin but only the brightest stars.
A couple of things:
1. If there is that much extraneous light, there is a great chance that you are in an area with too much light pollution to see the veil at all. You need dark skies for this. It is not a difficult object in your scope (I've viewed it many times in my 8" LX200), but it really does need moderate darkness.
2. What eyepiece were you using? An OIII filter works best with an exit pupil of 3-7mm, which would be 30mm - 70mm eyepiece on your scope. Anyway, because of that, and because of the very large size of this object, you want the lowest power eyepiece you have.
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8273
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
I can't imagine the cold in Ohio bothering any filter.
Those filters do suck up some light so the bigger the scope the better the results. I've never used it on a 4" (assuming that's what you used). I know in my 140 the Veil is a hazy wisp w/o but really pops with the filter. I've seen the Veil in an 18" Obsession and I almost grabbed my umbrella, I thought rain clouds were moving in :>). Again, dark, transparent skies help.
Jim
I have seen both sides of the Veil with my 2" Lumicon OIII filter just stuck in the front of my 9x50 finderscope (that is two inches of aperture folks!). This was, of course, under dark sky conditions with an eye that was fully dark-adapted. The "myth" that the OIII isn't very useful in small telescopes is just that: a myth. You will see *more* objects and more detail in larger apertures with or without a filter, but I still find the OIII to be the "filter of choice" for some objects in smaller apertures as long as the proper observing techniques are used. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2909
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With my 10 inch equatorial Newt, I always started at the bright, naked eye star Epsilon (53) Cygni. This is one of the stars in the Northern Cross asterism. 52 Cygni and the fainter western portion of the Veil (NGC 6960)) resides 3.3º due south from Epsilon. From the northern tip of this flame-shaped nebulosity, you can sweep 2.3º due east to get to the Bridal Veil nebula (NGC 6992). This portion of the Veil is also easily seen in unfiltered 10x50 binocs under truly dark skies. While in the area, scan around for Pickering's Wedge.
Bill in Flag
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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Carol L
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 6034
Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
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You don't need much aperture, the entire Veil complex is definitely do-able with an 80ST and O-III filter. Averted vision was needed to detect structure, but the eastern and western portions were easily seen, as well as a portion of Pickering's wedge.
Use 52 Cygni as a springboard... the Western portion's right there.
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 Authoring the monthly AstroSketch page in "Sky at Night" magazine
Lunar Sketch Tutorial
CN Gallery
Photo Gallery
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jmcdonald
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/01/05
Posts: 1516
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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You're not trying this with the moon in the sky are you?
Wait until the moon is gone - at least several days after full. Wait for a good dark night.
A 2" O3 or UHC (not an LPR filter) and wide field (2") eyepiece would be a great help. But the 1.25" should work - it just makes the hunting harder.
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Jerel
Discovery 12.5" modified truss DOB
Garret 15x70 LW Binoculars
22-T4,13-T6
IDA Membership
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kiwi_canuck
member
Reged: 11/07/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Port Coquitlam, BC, CANADA
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I've seen the Veil in my 102mm f/5 achromatic refractor using an Orion Ultrablock filter, and because of a huge FOV, the Veil was truly gorgeous. Nearby observers with much larger scopes were coming to look through my ep to see the full effect. I should point out that DARK skies are a must.
Happy hunting.
~Phill
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Sky-Watcher 250mm f/5 Collapsible Dobsonian
Sky-Watcher 102mm f/5 Refractor
EQ3-2 mount
Red-dot finder
TV Plossls - 11mm, 15mm, 25mm
Fraser Valley Astronomers Society, Abbotsford, BC
http://fvas.net
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droid
rocketman
Reged: 08/29/04
Posts: 4030
Loc: ohio
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Im waiting out the moon currently, but I do plan to use the 32mm and 40mm 2 inch eps I have, they have huge fovs, alas I do not have any 2 inch filters, and getting one isnt going ot happen anytime soon.
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102mm Celestron C102HD
Tasco 7TE5 60mm Classic
Tasco 9TE5 60mm Classic
Celestron Ultima 2000 SCT
Remains of an 8 inch dob
Celestron Comet catcher(orange tube)
1960 Edscorp Space Conquerer 6inch f/8
10x50 Bushnell Binoculars.
11T 4.5 inch Tasco reflector Lunograsso?
60mm Telescope Club
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ensign
member
Reged: 12/16/08
Posts: 38
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Using your 32mm and 40mm EPs is a good idea. It is possible to see the Veil without using filters but it's a lot fainter than you might expect. I'm told the Veil was considered a challenge object not all that long ago.
A friend and I were out in pretty good conditions at our club's local dark site (limiting visual magnitude approx mag 6) a few weeks ago. We were able to see the Eastern Veil without using filters but it was subtle even in the 10".
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- Mike
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Modified 10" Sky-Watcher Dob
William Optics Megrez 110/EZTouch
Nagler Type 4 - 12,17,22
Pentax XW - 10,7
William Optics UWAN 28
Siebert Observatory class 40
Other assorted items too numerous to mention
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joelimite
sage
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 234
Loc: Fayetteville, AR
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I finally found the Veil Nebula myself last night. I used a Lumicon Narrowband filter and a 32mm Plossl. What a huge DSO! I'm going to need a low mag, 2-inch eyepiece in order to take it all in at once.
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Orion XT8 Dob w/ Moonlite 2-speed Crayford focuser, Vixen A80MF w/ GSO 2-speed Crayford and Porta Mount
32mm Televue Plossl, 31mm Hyperion Aspheric, 24mm Meade SWA, 17,13,8mm Hyperions, 6,5,4mm TMB Planetary, 5mm Baader Genuine Ortho
Garrett Optical 20x80 UL Binoculars, Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 Binoculars
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coutleef
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/21/08
Posts: 1706
Loc: Montréal and Saint-Donat, Québ...
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Quote:
Quote:
I can't imagine the cold in Ohio bothering any filter.
Those filters do suck up some light so the bigger the scope the better the results. I've never used it on a 4" (assuming that's what you used). I know in my 140 the Veil is a hazy wisp w/o but really pops with the filter. I've seen the Veil in an 18" Obsession and I almost grabbed my umbrella, I thought rain clouds were moving in :>). Again, dark, transparent skies help.
Jim
I have seen both sides of the Veil with my 2" Lumicon OIII filter just stuck in the front of my 9x50 finderscope (that is two inches of aperture folks!). This was, of course, under dark sky conditions with an eye that was fully dark-adapted. The "myth" that the OIII isn't very useful in small telescopes is just that: a myth. You will see *more* objects and more detail in larger apertures with or without a filter, but I still find the OIII to be the "filter of choice" for some objects in smaller apertures as long as the proper observing techniques are used. Clear skies to you.
Like David wrote: I just did that yesterday with my stellarvue 50mm finder with a 25mm EP and a 9T6 using a orion OIII filter (1.25"). With the 9T6, that gave me 22x of magnification and i clearly say the veil even if my finder has just 2 inch aperture. In fact it was more pleasant than in the 8 ' SCT because of the wider field of view. I could see more details in the SCT but the global view was nice with the finder. This was from my dark site (green on the LP scale) at 23:00 (quite dark) with racoons, foxes and bears but no light!!
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François
Scopes: Nexstar 8 SE with Ron's rail and Denk S1 Powerswitch. EPs list is on my Bio.
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