· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User You are not logged in. [Login] Entrance · Main Index · Search · New user · Who's Online FAQ · Calendar Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Pages: 1 cildarith Carpal Tunnel Reged: 08/26/04 Loc: San Diego, CA Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard!)       #3242243 - 07/27/09 11:09 PM Attachment (65 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I have always been awestruck by the incredible lunar sketches produced by Harold Hill, Andrew Johnson, Nigel Longshaw, and Roy Bridge. Their works are, IMO, the very pinnacle of lunar sketching. Each of these gentlemen use a technique known as stippling wherein the image is built up by the accumulation of innumerable minute dots. Here is my first feeble attempt at this rather challenging technique. For a target I opted for something fairly simple, a bit away from the harsh shadows of the terminator, the 64 km crater Macrobius and its environs. This crater has an unremarkable central peak and is noted for its terraced walls. It is near the northwestern shore of Mare Crisium. Stippling is hard. Sketching without a pencil or other erasable media is also somewhat unnerving. To improve on what I've done, I probably should have a proper stippling pen (as opposed to a Zebra Jimnie Gel Rollerball ), and/or work at a larger scale than a 3-inch quarter-panel. Any other suggestions from those who have had success with this technique are most welcome! Post Extras:       Big Wall member Reged: 12/07/08 Loc: Denver Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard!) [Re: cildarith]       #3242318 - 07/27/09 11:38 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Wow! Excellent job! Post Extras:       mathteacher Carpal Tunnel Reged: 05/13/07 Loc: Oakland, CA Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: Big Wall]       #3242319 - 07/27/09 11:39 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Excellent! Post Extras:       CarlosEH Postmaster Reged: 01/19/05 Loc: Pembroke Pines, Broward County... Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: mathteacher]       #3242493 - 07/28/09 02:26 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Eric, An outstanding observation of Macrobius and Tisserand using the stippling technique. I believe that you have done an excellent job with the placement of the dots to create realistic shadows and terrain. I think we all "get the point" from this rendering (Ha! Ha!). Thank you for sharing it with us all. Carlos Post Extras:       Jeremy Perez Carpal Tunnel Reged: 08/12/04 Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona, USA Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: mathteacher]       #3242513 - 07/28/09 02:49 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   That is awesome! So it sounds like you did all the stippling at the eyepiece, instead of drawing contours & stippling later? Congratulations on getting such an excellent result. Post Extras:       frank5817 Postmaster Reged: 06/13/06 Loc: Illinois Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: Jeremy Perez]       #3242790 - 07/28/09 11:44 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Eric, You should not call that feeble, it is a wonderful sketch. I have done some sketching this way in the distant past but nothing astronomical. It looks great I would be proud of a sketch like yours but then all your sketches look great. Frank Post Extras:       kraterkid Post Laureate Reged: 03/07/05 Loc: Jacumba, California Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: frank5817]       #3242900 - 07/28/09 12:38 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Eric your sketch is beautifully done! I concur about the difficulties of working with this medium though. Did you do this at the eyepiece? I've done some sketches, but always after doing the undersketch in pencil and indicating the albedo values by number for later work inside. Wonderful rendition! Post Extras:       cildarith Carpal Tunnel Reged: 08/26/04 Loc: San Diego, CA Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: kraterkid]       #3243063 - 07/28/09 02:10 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thanks for the comments, everyone! I will try the contours-albedo-value-thingy next time. Hopefully that will improve the results, and I won't feel quite so rushed to capture the scene with the moon diving toward the rooftops. For this attempt I started by inking in the black shadowed areas and worked from dark to progressively lighter areas - which helped speed things along toward the end (fewer dots). Post Extras:       Shannon s sage Reged: 06/21/09 Loc: Bartow FL. Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: cildarith]       #3243608 - 07/28/09 07:17 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Great job, Eric. I haven't looked for a long time. I think they are still sold. Rapidiograph technical pens, are great for stippling - the tips vary in size and they are refillable. Cold press illustration board takes the ink well jus' be careful of hand smears. The only drawback is the constant pounding of the pen tip on the board and will eventually take its toll on the pen tip so watch for drips. Once again great stippling. Post Extras:       cildarith Carpal Tunnel Reged: 08/26/04 Loc: San Diego, CA Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: Shannon s]       #3243698 - 07/28/09 08:08 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thanks Shannon. As a southpaw, hand smears are one of the banes of my existence... Post Extras:       Special Ed Postmaster Reged: 05/18/03 Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: cildarith]       #3245790 - 07/29/09 10:39 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Eric, Great drawing--one of your better lunar drawings, I think. Thanks for sharing the ups and downs of this technique. Iirc, Harold Hill has some tips about using stippling in the introduction to his book. I believe he uses number values in the rough draft as mentioned above. This is just a personal preference, but I think you can dispense with the circle template for lunar drawings to some advantage. Post Extras:       vennard member Reged: 12/29/08 Loc: Montana Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: Special Ed]       #3277359 - 08/17/09 09:10 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Eric, An excellent drawing. Stippling is what seems to suite me best so I have done a bit over time. The smaller pen point the finer the shading and picture look. I have found a 3x rapidograph works well. When I draw I seem to 'lock' my hand to a spot and as a result create patterns with dot making. The answer to this is to rotate the drawing and work from different angles. If you are doing a drawing near the terminator plan on the view changing after about 30-40 minutes of work, so if you are doing detail, shadows move as the lighting changes and new detail becomes obvious. I do a quick, light pencil sketch and number the values on a 1-5 scale on an overlay to help keep the drawing a bit more precise. If you check out Hill's book you will notice that he had/s a tendency to concentrate on a few details in a particular area featuring the structure he wanted to emphasise, in other words dont take on to big an area or worry to much about all the minutia around the subject, something I have yet to understand compleatly. This style realy does not lend itself to 'studys' but rather a more in depth work. If you continue drawing in this style use a larger pen point (a rapidiograph #1 or 2) while limiting yourself to a single limited subject area I think you will do just fine, and produce excellent drawings. It seems I have one picture posted in the member gallery under vennard, not one of my best (and a practice at that) from a photo done during last winter snows. It was done with a #3x and a brush for the larger black areas, which ruin the effect, on an illustration board. The initial drawing was 30 min (as if at the telescope)and then put away, with probably a couple of hours finishing it off... Mike Post Extras:       vennard member Reged: 12/29/08 Loc: Montana Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: vennard]       #3277367 - 08/17/09 09:14 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   PS- I am left handed also... mike Post Extras:       Dee scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 03/12/06 Loc: Ireland Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: vennard]       #3277839 - 08/17/09 01:43 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Fantastic wonderful, admirable. !!! I appreciate the intensity of dot making in achieving this sketch. I have not used a rapidograph for hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ??? 30 years , used to love them a lot. At the moment I am and have been for months producing a reproduction of Galileo’s sketches and am well familiar with thousands of dots. This method reminds me of pointalism , a drawing craze in the late 1800’s in Europe. The best thing I like about the method is the creation of the negative space by being very positive about the positive spaces. A super sketch, great technique, and patience. Dee Post Extras:       cildarith Carpal Tunnel Reged: 08/26/04 Loc: San Diego, CA Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: Dee]       #3282343 - 08/19/09 05:08 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thanks Mike and Dee! My second try turned out better, thanks to the excellent suggestions posted here. Post Extras:       Dee scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 03/12/06 Loc: Ireland Re: Macrobius and Tisserand (or, Stippling is hard [Re: cildarith]       #3282500 - 08/19/09 06:37 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Awesome sketch , love that method, well executed Dee Post Extras:       Pages: 1 Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Extra information 0 registered and 9 anonymous users are browsing this forum. 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