Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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I finally resolved M51 and M71 last night. The family and I are staying in Lake George, NY and last night all the haze gave way to a cool clear night. I setup the ‘scope and tried to find M51 again. Finally!!! After months of hunting in a light polluted area, I saw two bright centers with fuzzy outer regions. I then pointed the scope to Sagitta and M71 was sitting there just looking back at me. I still had to deal with the light glare from all the car headlights and the lights of the grounds so I pulled my shirt over my head and used it as a makeshift focusing cloth.
I’d love to buy a cabin all the way on top of these mountains and setup an observatory.
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16299
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Congratulations.
I hope that the mosquitoes left you alone with your shirt like that.  
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Ted
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Yup the mosquitoes did leave me alone, I think last night was too cool for them. If I get s clear night tonight I'm going to try and find M108, M109 as well as the Owl Nebual and Dumbell Nebula.
Jav
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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A dark sky is great, so much more to see.
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Scott K
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 1409
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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Congrats Javier! Hunting DSOs in heavy light pollution is super frustrating. I'm glad you got out into some darkness where success is MUCH more assured! You definitely need to look at the Dumbbell Nebula! I hope the sky is clear for you tonight!
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Thanks guys, I think the clouds read my CN posts becuase they are rolling in... 
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Javier!
Hey buddy! Nice to see you here.
Congrats again on M51/71. Definitely a fine pair, and both share some great views at the eyepiece. As others said, I hope the mosquitoes are leaving you alone. Yeah, I didn't have them bothering me last night either and as you said, you thought it was too cool for them. Thats what I was thinking since I didn't get bit once with shorts on! 
Good to see your having fun. If you get out tonight, let us know what you got to observe. Thanks!!
-Dain
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8668
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
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Yes, sir, Javier. One of my most memorable nights was the first time I found M51. I spent a lot of unsuccessful nights looking for it. As it turns out, I had probably seen it, but it was one of those things that as a new observer, you don't realize that that slightly out of focus smudge on your eyepiece is actually a galaxy that a bazillion light years away. Congratulations! M51 is a terrific view.
David
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Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 532
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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Congrats Javier,
A truly dark sky does a lot for the visibility of faint extended objects. You will need some aperture, but high quality 70mm of clear aperture is enough to open a world of wonders. Put in a Nagler and your one step closer to being there.
Clear and dark skies,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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Astraforce Paul
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1879
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It's amazing what a difference darker skies can make it, isn't it?
Congrats on the viewing of both... they are among my faves to view.
One small nit-pick... "resolve" is usually reserved for splitting double stars or seeing individual stars within globular clusters! You'd be hard pressed to visually resolve stars in M51, even if you had a very, very large scope.
Hmm... come to think of it, that raises a question. How big a scope would you need in order to resolve M51's stars visually?
I know that folks can see globular clusters in M31, the Andromeda Galaxy, although not resolve them, in amateur scopes. What about actually seeing its stars? Could one do it with the 200" Palomar scope? That is, if they would actually let us use it visually? Or with that Mt. Wilson scope that amateurs are able to use? What is the magnitude of the brightest stars in M31? In M51?
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1328
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Quote:
Hmm... come to think of it, that raises a question. How big a scope would you need in order to resolve M51's stars visually?
I know that folks can see globular clusters in M31, the Andromeda Galaxy, although not resolve them, in amateur scopes. What about actually seeing its stars? Could one do it with the 200" Palomar scope? That is, if they would actually let us use it visually? Or with that Mt. Wilson scope that amateurs are able to use? What is the magnitude of the brightest stars in M31? In M51?
Here is a thread discussing the possibilities of individual stars of M51... seems unlikely in any amateur telescope though one poster may have a shot with his 36" .
Link
I'm guessing the original poster meant resolving the arms of M51.
Mike
Link shortened by Square_peg.
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16" f/4.9 dob, 1.25" Paracorr, 24 TV Widefield, 18 Circle T ortho, 13 Nagler T6, 12.5 UO ortho,
9 Circle T ortho, 2x TV Barlow 1.25"
Edited by square_peg (08/25/09 02:29 AM)
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12221
Loc: Los Angeles
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The very brightest stars of M31 are a little brighter than magnitude 17, so visible to a 12.5" in very dark skies under good conditions.
M51, though is much fainter. The brightest stars are between 21.4 and 24.3, so not visible in amateur instruments visually.
The spiral pattern, though, is discernable with an 8" scope on a decent night.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Talk about getting lucky. I was out in my yard this evening and with my 6" reflector I was able to find the Dumbbell Nebula, M56 and split Epsilion Lyra. I was really surprised to spot the Dumbbell and M56, I had a good amount of sky glow from the summer haze and massive LB in my area.
Jav
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1328
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Congratulations! You're on a roll now. M56 in heavy light pollution is not an easy object. The Dumbbell is easier IIRC (once in the right spot).
A fun object that is not a Messier is the "Coathanger", an open cluster. It needs low power and wide field, looks like the real thing. Not far from Alberio (Beta Cygnus), but you'll need a chart. Alberio itself is a first-class double star in case you haven't seen it already. Both of these can be seen in light pollution.
Mike
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16" f/4.9 dob, 1.25" Paracorr, 24 TV Widefield, 18 Circle T ortho, 13 Nagler T6, 12.5 UO ortho,
9 Circle T ortho, 2x TV Barlow 1.25"
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YankeeJeff
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 537
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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Javier - I spent an hour last night trying to find M56. I figured the star hop was easy from Alberio but I could not seem to get it. I finally spotted a blur using 179x. When I confirmed that the "blur" was in the right spot I then used 250x to see it just a bit more clearly; very few faint stars could be seen. The stars I could see must have been ~mag 13. I was so proud I saw as little as I did. If you don't mind me asking, How much power did you use to spot M56 and what color zone (CSC) would you say you're in? I know NJ has a good mix of dark sites to light polluted areas.
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Oh let the sun beat down upon my face, stars to fill my dream
I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been
24Pan, 17T4, 13T6, 11T6, 9BTMB, 8TVpl, 7T6, 5T6, 3.5T6, 5/6BTMBs
Z10"Dob, Paracorr, 2xBrlw, Telrad, RACI,°Circles, )Spider
FBF, Brooklyn: 
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zanti-misfit
member
Reged: 08/17/09
Posts: 88
Loc: SE United States
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I searched for M51 and M101 last night but had no luck. The skies were not dark at all. I'm going to try again tomorrow night.
Did see M57 sorta ok. I'll try for M56 tomorrow as well.
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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Hi YankeeJeff,
M56 was not easy at all. Like you I saw a very faint blur and I was able to make out a few very faint stars. I'll look back in my log and calculate the magnification for you. I'm about 15-20 minutes west of Manhattan so I get killed with light pollution as well, I believe I'm in a red zone but I'll look it up for you.
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Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
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The Dumbbell Nebula was pure luck. I looked at my star chart and noticed that I was near it so I gave it a shot. I didn't expect to actually see it. Talk about luck.
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Frank Luke
sage
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Dog Bark, OH
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I saw the Coathanger last night with 10x42 binocs while aimlessly scanning the southern sky. A striking arrangement of stars; never have seen an open cluster quite like it.
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12221
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
I finally resolved M51 and M71 last night. The family and I are staying in Lake George, NY and last night all the haze gave way to a cool clear night. I setup the ‘scope and tried to find M51 again. Finally!!! After months of hunting in a light polluted area, I saw two bright centers with fuzzy outer regions. I then pointed the scope to Sagitta and M71 was sitting there just looking back at me. I still had to deal with the light glare from all the car headlights and the lights of the grounds so I pulled my shirt over my head and used it as a makeshift focusing cloth.
I’d love to buy a cabin all the way on top of these mountains and setup an observatory.
One of the cool things about M71 is that it is shaped a little like an arrowhead or an angel fish. Next time you look at it, and use at least 100X, notice the shape--uncanny.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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