Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Hi All,
I live in a newer neighbourhood, the kind with the cookie cutter houses, and very small lots. There is at least a small backyard, and the town is at least far enough from the GTA to offer not to bad of overall darkness (it's a red zone). I do however have a significant problem with neighbours lights, both in and outside their houses.
The houses are all very close (50' from my back door to the house behind, much less to the sides), and I understand that people need to live. Personally, I don't like the idea of people looking into my house at night, so I use blinds/curtains, but others don't seem to care. Definitely an impact to me, but all I can really do is try to educate and hope they will be considerate of me.
However, it seems I have one neighbour that seems to be going out of his way cause as much problem as he can. I've talked to him before, and he knows I observe from my backyard, but lately I've noticed a strong relationship between when I'm observing and him having more lights than usual on, including his outside ones.
At first I thought it was just bad luck, or coincidence, but now I'm not so sure. The other night I was out and setup. This guy had a light on in his living room and curtains open as usual. Not great for me, but I could work around it.
A bit later in the evening, I noticed he came to the back door, looked out and saw me, looked up at the sky, then turned on his backyard light. Then opened the blinds for the rooms facing the backyard (my direction) and turned on all the lights. In fact multiple lights in some rooms.
Now it was *really* bright in my backyard. Like bright enough to read a book. He didn't go outside or anything, he didn't even stay in those rooms from what I could tell.
I did what I could to work around it, but it was a big impact. I could still see Jupiter, but I had to work hard to control the light around my eyes. This all made me think twice about how late I would be staying up, but the clouds started to roll in and I decided to pack up.
Interestingly, only a few minutes after I had finished getting everything gathered up and put away, did all of his lights no go out. I was steaming at that point because it seems like it was very intentional. 
Anyone ever run into anything like this?
Clear (and dark) skies,
-Gord
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* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen! 
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ColoHank
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/07/07
Posts: 509
Loc: western Colorado
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Perhaps he just wants attention. Buy the poor guy a cup of coffee sometime and talk things over with him. If that doesn't work, buy him another cup of coffee and flavor it with syrup of ipecac.
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Questar 3.5 standard - pyrex and BB coatings
Powerguide II
8mm, 12mm, 16mm, 24mm and 32mm Brandons
modified Bogen 3030 w/ homebuilt wedge
Homebuilt Galileo scope and very large and ugly homemade tripod
other odds and ends, including iPod Touch with StarMap Pro (what a marvelous combo)...
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"Nothing exists but atoms and empty space. Everything else is opinion."
Titus Lucretius Carus 99-55 B.C.
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Hey Hank, I actually had to google that to figure it out.
I'm not sure if talking will go very far... he doesn't seem that interested in talking about anything from what I've found (at least to me that is). But I'm suspecting that he could just be this kind of person.
A while back after we had moved in, I had been doing a lot of work outside to cleanup the remaining construction debris that had been left around and that the builder was not taking care of. I spent a lot of time cleaning up my yard, as well as anything obvious into my neighbours yards as well. This seemed to go noticed by others as I started seeing them out doing the same in the following days.
It was also noticed by this fellow, and I noticed him outside one evening doing the same. Well, almost the same.
Instead of picking up the garbage and putting in a bin or bag, he threw whatever he found into the neighbouring yards. I was a blown away by this that this person would have so little regard for those around him to do this, and if you are going through the trouble of picking the stuff up, why not just put it in the trash!?!!
So, I'm not sure he even cares what others think.
I had wanted to build an observatory, a roll off roof. But I think a dome is probably what I really need in order for the light protection. Not sure how well that's going to go over. I know at least one other neighbour wasn't thrilled with the idea of a dome.
Clear skies,
-Gord
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* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16198
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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It sounds like the Grinch lives there.
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Ted
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Darenwh
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1219
Loc: Covington, GA
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I would insure there is trash in his yard, do the same again, and film him throwing garbage into others yards. Then call the cops and get him ticketed for littering.
Some times people just need to be taught a lesson in order to get them to start behaving. If he has been able to get away with this type of behaviour before with no recourse and continues to do this type of thing because he can then doing such a thing will let him know that it will not be tollerated.
It's likely you won't be able to do anything about the lights other than maybe building a nice privacy fence (unfortunately expensive) or building light blocking panels (not so expensive) but at least you can teach him a lesson about being neighborly.
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Daren
Covington, GA
Edited by Darenwh (09/01/09 07:10 AM)
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GJJim
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/09/06
Posts: 907
Loc: Western CO
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Low-grade sociopaths are tough to deal with because there is no real logic to their actions other than the discomfort they inflict on others. The fence mentioned above is probably the only sure, legal solution. Perhaps you'll get lucky and he will pick up and move.
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Thanks for the input everyone. I've pretty much come to the same conclusion re: the light blocking. I really wanted a roll off so I could disguise it as a normal little building for the sake of the neighbours as much as anything. A dome is cool, but I know some people will not like it.
Right now I'm kind of forced that way between this guy, and the other people (unintentionally I hope...) doing similar. The fence is definitely going to happen, although there are restrictions on height and it will not offer all the protection I need. I've already been thinking on how to design some blocking panels to strategically put up as I need them.
I don't want to resort to anything illegal. As much as it is tempting to go over and unscrew the light-blub just a little so that it turns off.  Still, not a solution.
I try to chalk all his behaviour up to him just not knowing any better of what is appropriate and what is not. I'll still continue to cut the grass for him along our property line as the neighbourly thing to do. That and hope he moves!
Thanks all,
-Gord
--------------------
* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
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Don Trinko
super member
Reged: 07/05/09
Posts: 130
Loc: Ohio
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If this guy works try to figure out his work schedule and adjust your viewing hours so that he has to loose sleep to anoy you. You could set your alarm and get up in the middle of the night when he is probably sleeping or go to bed early and get up early to view. good Luck; Don T.
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Nexstar 8SE
Meade DS2130at-lnt
Astro-Tech 66mm
Coranado PST 40mm
Celestron 10x50 binoculars
Nikon 7x35 Binoculars
EP's 8 to 24 Zuhmell, 8 to 24 Hyperion, 12.5 Astro-Tech Paradime, Celestron 40,26,9.7 plossel,
Zuhmell 32,12.5,6,4 plossel , TMB 5,3.2, planitary II.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5023
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Making some light blocking panels will probably be necessary to ward off the floodlights from his yard. If they're portable the neighbors can't say a thing because they're not a building. As for building an observatory, he'll have to check with the local authorities if such a structure can be built and what restrictions apply. I would opt for the roll off roof simply because a dome tend to attract vandals and burglars. Or you could set a pier in the back yard so all you need do is put your telescope on it each time you want to observe.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
Edited by csa/montana (09/01/09 03:52 PM)
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: Estonia
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I imagine as long as people understand your predicament, they won't oppose a gigantic fence on his side.
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40155
Loc: montana
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Quote:
I don't want to resort to anything illegal. As much as it is tempting to go over and unscrew the light-blub just a little so that it turns off. Still, not a solution.
Nor does CN condone any illegal acts. It is the neighbor's property, to do as he sees fit, with it. Sadly some neighbors are not "neighborly".
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Darenwh
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1219
Loc: Covington, GA
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I don't condone illegal activities either. I do believe however that legal methods should be employed. Next time he decides to 'clean up' by throwing things off his property onto others he should be filmed, reported, and fined for his actions. There is no excuse for that.
The easiest way to add light panels is simply to put up a clothes line in the appropriate location and when you go out to observe go out first with a nice sized piece of light blocking fabric and put it on the clothes line with a weight at the bottom if it's windy. This will block the light and is very easily taken down at the end of the observing session. If it's wet, leave it up and take it down the next day after it dries on the clothesline.
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Daren
Covington, GA
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Yeah, the "yard cleanup" was over the top I thought! I'll try to post a picture for reference of how the properties are layed out, but it wasn't just into his neighbours yard. It was right against his house! There's only 8-12' between the houses, and the bricks, 2x4's, coffee cups, etc. weren't just crossing the property line. They were smacking the other guys house!
Anyways, I called the city to find out about the building process. There are some restrictions on size and positioning, but fortunately none for style. The light blocking panels wouldn't be an issue as they are temporary and would only be in place while observing.
I'll have to get creative with building them to be able to be raised to block the offending lights from above. Oh what hoops to jump through...  Some day I hope to get a nice house out away from all of this.
Clear skies,
-Gord
--------------------
* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16198
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Make the panels out of the black plastic used for weed control in gardens. Then you could paint something creative on the side facing outward.  Keep it family friendly though. Maybe a picture of an incandescent light bulb followed by the word blocker.
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Ted
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Quote:
Maybe a picture of an incandescent light bulb followed by the word blocker.
Or a bulb in a circle with a cross through it... Yep, I think that could pass on a message, but I'm pretty sure there are still going to be a lot that won't get it. Oh well.
Thanks,
-Gord
--------------------
* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16198
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Some might think that a bulb with a cross through it might mean no ideas or clueless.
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Ted
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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It is true though that I'm definitely guilty of that at times! 
-Gord
--------------------
* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
--------------------
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5023
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Maybe you can use something like this light screen I came up with. It works pretty well and breaks down into small sections for easy storage. And if anything breaks, repairs are easy to make.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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Gord
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 693
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
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Yes, that is something like what I'll need, although I will probably use smaller panels and place them strategically. I can't likely leave anything up for very long, and I don't want a lot of effort in terms of setup and teardown.
But I do like the protection that your solution provides.
What is the blocking material made of?
Thanks,
-Gord
--------------------
* Celestron C10/Normand Fullum primary
* Tasco 11TR/Normand Fullum primary
* Orion StarBlast
* Orion Apex 102
* SkyWatcher 80ED
* Celestron CG5a mount
* MallinCam Pro & Color II
* Lots of other astro toys
...and the best wife I could ever dream of for letting it all happen!
--------------------
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5023
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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It's black Rip Stop Nylon fabric, which is light and very tough. Best of all, it stands up to sun, rain and dew very well, so if it gets wet just leave it in the sunlight to dry. Ask for it by name at any local fabric supply outlet. Make sure to use grommets though, even Rip Stop can rip if a gust of wind comes up. Sew a hem around the edge and use two layers to completely block out unwanted light.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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