candymancan
super member
Reged: 07/10/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Virginia
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When will mars be the closest to us so i can see it in detail ? What Magnifiction do you honestly need ? I've been eye'ing mars every now and then for the last month and all i ever see is a Bright red dot and nothing more.
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Nikon 10x50 Action Binoculars
Zhumell Z10 10" Dobsonian
Tasco 60mm Refractor
Edited by candymancan (09/02/09 09:55 AM)
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
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It's really hard to see anything yet. I haven't gotten a decent observation so far this year, but I keep trying.
Mars will be at its closest for this apparition on, I think, January 29th. At that time it will be 14" in diameter, a little more than half as big as it was in 2003. Unless you just want to punish yourself in the way Mars-heads do, you'll probably want to be looking for, say, a month on either side of that date for your best views.
Use the highest magnification you can without overpowering it. For your 10" scope, you ought to be able to use 300-450x when the seeing is good. Mars is small and hard to observe, so take your time. A #25 red or #30 magenta filter will help. Sketching it is a big help, it makes you pay attention to what you're seeing. There will be long periods of lousy seeing, interspersed with seconds of razor-sharp images, so be patient. Mars is worth the effort!
Hope this helps. Good luck!
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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jg3
sage
Reged: 05/27/07
Posts: 329
Loc: near Auburn, CA
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Besides a little more time for Mars to come closer, you want anything to improve contrast and maximize optical perfection:
Fans to bust the boundary layer of warm air on the mirror surface, or at least cool the mirror as well as possible. Also avoid viewing over warm thermal sources like buildings and blacktop.
Collimation.
Filters - Baader Contrast Booster is my favorite; their Moon and Skyglow is good too, or acquire some Mars and color filters.
Quality binoviewer, since two eyes are better than one at perception of barely-visible detail. Plus it splits the light intensity hitting any eye in half to a more comfortable level. I also find planet views "look bigger" with two eyes.
If you are really serious and willing to take on something technical, design and make an apodizing screen. Required reading is http://home.digitalexp.com/~suiterhr/TM/apodize.htm Design to raise the upper left region of the MTF curve for contrast.
Even with all this, it's a challenge to identify which face of the planet shows, and to find the major features. Don't expect Hubble or probe views. It takes some preparation to get more than an orange disk.
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Kris.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Belgium
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i'd definitely go for an apodizing mask on your 10", the results are sometimes really stunning.
try to use a binoviewer before you buy, it's not as easy to merge the two images when using high power than at low power. since you want to be observing at high power, this is important
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Kris
To be old & wise, you first gotta be young & stupid 
8" dob
AstroTech 66ED/APO
TAL 120 newt.
my CN sketch & picture gallery
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dpwoos
sage
Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 218
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First off, if you are not already getting outstanding high power planetary views then Mars is certainly going to disappoint you. Assuming that you are, then I would make sure you have some filters to try. This is where observing with others is a big plus, as you can try their filters on your eyepieces/scope, and see what you like. I like a #85 salmon filter, and haven't found dedicated "Mars" filters very useful, but you might discover that they do work for you. On the binoviewer subject, I did have access to a Denkmeier unit in 2003 and found that it improved the view of Mars in every scope that could bring it to focus, and often dramatically. However, it is an expensive piece of gear and, in my case, wasn't compelling enough.
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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I've been observing Mars through various kinds and sizes of telescopes since 1956! I have concluded that it is the most over-rated and disappointing of all the planets. I love looking at Jupiter and Saturn, but Mars - - I usually pass on it except at good oppositions, such as 2003 and 2005. I'll skip it this year, except for naked-eye viewing, which is fun.
But, hey! Knock yourself out.
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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dpwoos
sage
Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 218
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For sure it is a tough target, but I find it helps when I have something to look for. A great assistance in this regard is the free software app "Mars Previewer II", which provides a fairly realistic depiction of the features that are visible on Mars.
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candymancan
super member
Reged: 07/10/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Virginia
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Quote:
I've been observing Mars through various kinds and sizes of telescopes since 1956! I have concluded that it is the most over-rated and disappointing of all the planets. I love looking at Jupiter and Saturn, but Mars - - I usually pass on it except at good oppositions, such as 2003 and 2005. I'll skip it this year, except for naked-eye viewing, which is fun.
But, hey! Knock yourself out.
DAR
Nkaed eye viewing is boring... it looks like well a star lol i see those everynight. I already seen Saturn and Jupiter a Million times i want to look at something new.. You seem a little sour to me maybe just after like 50 years your getting tired of looking through your scope but i just started 2 months ago...
I need better eyepeices first and more magnifiction, i can only do 138x on my plossle the one that came with the scope.. The only way to get 312x is with a 4SM EP from my tasco. Even then tho it still looks like a dot pretty much. Pretty sure i can go higher up in Mag because Jupiter at 312x i noticed still looks fine no loss in detail really and its like that pretty much everynight.
So for filters ? Are you guys talking about filters like the cheapy $5 filters in pretty much like every color ? Which color's do you guys recomend i should get for the planets like Jupiter/Mars/Venus ect.. I wish i had enough money right now to buy everything i need. I just only recently got binoculars and a ipod for the skywatch app, but i still havent gotten any new eyepeices or any filters..
I cant seem to find Uranus and Neptune there so small they look like just another star.
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Nikon 10x50 Action Binoculars
Zhumell Z10 10" Dobsonian
Tasco 60mm Refractor
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
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No, don't get cheap filters. Better to save your money. A good quality #25 red filter might cost $20, and will make the most dramatic difference in your view. You can get a decent 4mm ortho or plossl eyepiece for small dollars - check out the shop and swap forum. Even new, a good 4mm ortho from University Optics is only about $60. If that's too much to spend right this time around, just go with what you have, and gather some stuff for next time. Mars comes around every two years.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
I've been observing Mars through various kinds and sizes of telescopes since 1956! I have concluded that it is the most over-rated and disappointing of all the planets.
Q: How many psychologists does it take to see details on Mars?
A: Just one - but he has to really want to see them. 
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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dscarpa
sage
Reged: 03/15/08
Posts: 257
Loc: San Diego Ca.
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During the last apparation of Mars I was able to see that Mars's polar caps were serrated as well as fine "canal" detail between the dark areas with my C 9.25. We had a run of very good seeing here during the last apparation. I used 235X to 300X power, the more magnification you can use the better. Mars will be a little smaller this time around but it will be high in the sky. David
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Kris.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 1276
Loc: Belgium
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Quote:
I've been observing Mars through various kinds and sizes of telescopes since 1956! I have concluded that it is the most over-rated and disappointing of all the planets. I love looking at Jupiter and Saturn, but Mars - - I usually pass on it except at good oppositions, such as 2003 and 2005. I'll skip it this year, except for naked-eye viewing, which is fun.
But, hey! Knock yourself out.
DAR
apart from Jupiter, which is offcourse also a lot easier, Mars is more interesting than Saturn imo. saturn may be bigger, and a 'jewel' in the sky with it's ring, but it's surface features are less contrasty than mars. mars is far from a boring, overrated planet, you just have to be willing to put in a little effort. the rewards are worth it.
But, hey! That's a mars-nut opinion! 
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Kris
To be old & wise, you first gotta be young & stupid
8" dob
AstroTech 66ED/APO
TAL 120 newt.
my CN sketch & picture gallery
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Ziggy943
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 1525
Loc: Utah
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Quote:
When will mars be the closest to us so i can see it in detail ? What Magnifiction do you honestly need ? I've been eye'ing mars every now and then for the last month and all i ever see is a Bright red dot and nothing more.
Mars was closest in 2003. Mars won't be really close again until 2018 so you have some time.
To see Mars really well you need a well collimated scope, very good optics and conditions that will allow greater that 200x. Choose a telescope well suited for planetary viewing.
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May your skies always be clear,
Ziggy
www.slas.us
4" Mak
#1, 160mm F8 TEC (born 1-18-2007, 27 lbs, 45.5" long), on AP900
6" F17.5 (D&G lens) (first light 6-7-2008)
9" F/14.8 Alvan Clark (1915), on Byers 812
14.25 F/5.5 Newt in a roll off observatory
Others, that have come and gone
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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2119
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
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Quote:
To see Mars really well you need a well collimated scope, very good optics and conditions that will allow greater that 200x.
Aperture is good, a mediocre 12" will outperform a superb 8", but steady seeing is the key.
Mars will still be pretty small when at its closest in late Jan / early Feb but, for those of us in northern temperate latitudes, at least it will be at a decent altitude - that's more helpful than a larger disc rolling along the horizon. Just pray that the jet stream is somewhere else ... if it's running overhead, you won't get good seeing, and, whatever you spend on kit, you won't get a good view.
Edited by brianb11213 (09/03/09 05:09 PM)
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Quote:
Aperture is good, a mediocre 12" will outperform a superb 8", but steady seeing is the key.
I disagree, particularly on planetary observing. A mediocre 12" telescope will give you a mediocre view, at best. A superb 8" will give you a superb view.
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- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!
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Deep13
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 1843
Loc: NE Ohio
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Lets see, your list of goodies does not include a tracking platform. I would get some really high quality, high power EPs. I suggest either Pentax XW or TV Nagler T.6. With my 8" f/6 which is about the same focal length as yours I used to use a 10mm Radian for so-so nights and add a good 2x Barlow for superb nights. Actually, I saw a lot with no tracking and a barlowed 12.5mm UO ortho despite its 43? deg. AFOV.
Use a fan to cool of if you don't already have one. In my 8", the fans blow air in the back and push it around the mirror. On my 12.5", they blow across the mirror. My recollection is that on the GSO Dobs there is no extra space between the tube and the mirror, so you will just have to cool it off from the rear. It will work.
Get a good collimation tool.
For filters, I like orange and red. Medium blue is nice too for astmosphere and ice caps. I'd go for good quality EPs.
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That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5029
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Steady seeing and good optics that are collimated correctly are absolute requirements. Mars never gets bigger than 25 arc-seconds across in apparent size, and this opposition will be about the worst it could be in terms of distance from Earth. Because it will not approach any closer than 60 million miles in January 2010, it will reach a maximum apparent size of some 14-arc seconds. This dictates the need for 200X or more to see anything other than the polar cap and a few large surface features easily. In other words, use as much magnification as the seeing and your telescope will bear. Using good eyepieces will help with your Mars observing, along with the use of color filters. For big telescopes a #25 red works well at making surface features stand out, or a #21 orange filter for smaller telescopes. Blue and green filters will show clouds in the atmosphere at the expense of surface details. Lastly patience is needed because Mars doesn't surrender it's secrets easily. Percival Lowell and other astronomers spent years peering at Mars with big telescopes and even they sometimes could only see a squirming orange ball due to poor seeing. Now is the time to start watching Mars, and by the time it gets to opposition you'll be seeing it's faint and subtle surface features. If the planet looks like a cue ball or seems hazy in places, you're seeing a dust storm or storms on the planet. So if despite your best efforts you don't see details, it might be because of the Martian weather.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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Ziggy943
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 1525
Loc: Utah
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Quote:
Quote:
Aperture is good, a mediocre 12" will outperform a superb 8", but steady seeing is the key.
I disagree, particularly on planetary observing. A mediocre 12" telescope will give you a mediocre view, at best. A superb 8" will give you a superb view.
THAT, I agree with!!!
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May your skies always be clear,
Ziggy
www.slas.us
4" Mak
#1, 160mm F8 TEC (born 1-18-2007, 27 lbs, 45.5" long), on AP900
6" F17.5 (D&G lens) (first light 6-7-2008)
9" F/14.8 Alvan Clark (1915), on Byers 812
14.25 F/5.5 Newt in a roll off observatory
Others, that have come and gone
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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Quote:
Mars never gets bigger than 25 arc-seconds across in apparent size, and this opposition will be about the worst it could be in terms of distance from Earth.
I used to get caught up in the arc sec. versus opposition and wether or not to get excited about it coming up or not. The fact is, for me, Mars starts really happening when it crests 10". After that its the Mars show and what seems to dominate my concerns after that point isnt wether or not the
the planet hits over 15" but just how good the SEEING is.
Wow, on a night of truly good seeing, I can forgive a whole heck of a lot in terms of diameter size so long as I can get crisp focus at a good magnification. Often on those nights, it can be so good, in terms of reflecting on the memories over the years THATS what sticks. The time Mars was all fat and low in the ecliptic - all I did was lament the times I could see it way up in Gemini for example.
True to form - nothing beats truly good seeing AND a large arc second image. By and by though, usually after it crests 10 seconds the details and colors become so complex when the seeing settles, you have your share of amazement.
I may be alone in that, but I gave up on the opposition rating system in favor of getting good seeing. When that happens, the planet and the scope often take care of the rest.
Pete
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Perhaps I should have been more explicit regarding "naked eye" viewing of Mars. Of course this isn't to see detail. It's to enjoy its relatively rapid motion against the background of stars, especially when it's retrograding around opposition.
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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