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This is a most entertaining thread; it really has snowballed.

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He he... but the thread looks kind of a taupe/brown on my machine.

-- Jeff.

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Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium                                       Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD                       Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO                        Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO

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Ouch! I don't mean to ridicule your claim, I just don't believe it -

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It s really not over the top. Despite a slippery slope effect that winds down into the utter silly, this is an observation thats actually quite plausible. Let me explain...

I have no magic eyes. Merely a nice scope, at that time 6.2v skys [which just arent terrific, but merely deep sky doable] . I flat out hit a solid 15V at 240x. It wasnt a maybe - really, it was there. When you observe enough faint whatevers theres a reality check you get on wether its there or not. Fifteen V [visual magnitude not photo] is nice. It doesnt break any records, but Im happy i pulled it off.

Bumping up the aperture an inch and a quarter and using fairly high magnification, plus living out in the damned boonies [sorry dave] and coupled with the the subject revealing the nature of the seeing and its a pretty fairly plausible observation.

O'Mearas claim similarly done with the Harvard refractor is also plausible. Too, he's probably got better visual acuity on fine details - especially deep sky. Barbara Gordon is another one I've heard of whos got Santa Barbara instruments for eyes.

Where my baloney detector raises its head is in a claim I read regarding a 5" aperture for the central star. Thats just too too small no matter how perfect the faint star image for me to really feel comfortable accepting.

On deep sky limits though...

I'd suggest the following...

1.Fairly good seeing and super transparent skys like we get in the cooler months. Spft seeing isnt even worth the time.

2. Atleast 30 power per inch of aperture.

3. Know EXACTLY where to look.

4. This is critical - BREATHE. Breathe Breathe Breathe. Even light breath holding "for the moment" as you concentrate makes those stars just grain out and quick.
I used to just shrug on this as overhype and too obvious. That is until I was at the last five tenths of my mag limit.

Lastly: If you havent given a solid half hour at the ocular, you werent really at your limit. For me its more like 20 minutes, I'm rounding it off to 30.

One More Lastly: The day of the ob and maybe the day prior too - avoid bright lights. Use good dark sunglasses outside.

Having said all that - did it help me see the central star?

Oh hell no. Not a glimmer but I found my absolute limit for Sherman, Connecticut.

ITs totally plausible... the 5" refractor thing I read about ? No way. Simply profoundly NO. There are limits somewhere - I havent enough experience all the heck all over the darkest skys in the world, but that one is just too too far out there for me to rest even questionably on.

Pete

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One More Lastly: The day of the ob and maybe the day prior too - avoid bright lights. Use good dark sunglasses outside.

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I make it a point to ALWAYS wear my sunglass magnetic clip-ons over my prescription glasses whenever I go outdoors when the sun is up. I guess it helps, because I can see some pretty dim things both naked eye and through instruments. I wonder, though, if bright lights indoors also might hurt someone's dark adaptation for the next few days. It is ridiculous how bright most rooms are in most buildings nowadays. In my office building, any rooms I have any modicum of control over, I ask the maintenance people to unscrew about half the florescent lights (or I do it myself). And if you just open the shades and use the natural light to work at your desk, people ask, "Why are you working in the dark?" Philistines! Sometimes the indoor lighting literally hurts my eyes. It burns! It burns!

Mike

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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!

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Jeff,

That's funny. It's light violet on mine!

Mike

In my experience, when a thread becomes mostly jokes, it is winding down. Let's see if anyone can give us fresh observations or insight on the colorful planetaries!

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If you want more, take a look at the thread on the Cat's Eye in this forum. I laughed out loud when after the second post in the thread mentioned the word "color," the same responses started coming discussing color sensitivity.

It was like deja vu all over again!

Sometimes reminds me of old Monty Python sketches and the way they used to argue things back and forth endlessly. Perhaps this is becoming another "dead parrot." (Now THERE was a lovely shade of blue!)

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Tim

Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters

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And if you just open the shades and use the natural light to work at your desk, people ask, "Why are you working in the dark?" Philistines! Sometimes the indoor lighting literally hurts my eyes. It burns! It burns!

Mike

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Yes, I hear you. Sometimes I think we are turning into vampires (with a better taste in beverages)!

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Tim

Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters

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Barbara Gordon is another one I've heard of whos got Santa Barbara instruments for eyes.

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In my experience, when a thread becomes mostly jokes, it is winding down. Let's see if anyone can give us fresh observations or insight on the colorful planetaries!

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Great suggestion.

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Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP/ED80
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals




History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides

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It s really not over the top. Despite a slippery slope effect that winds down into the utter silly, this is an observation thats actually quite plausible. Let me explain...

I have no magic eyes. Merely a nice scope, at that time 6.2v skys [which just arent terrific, but merely deep sky doable] . I flat out hit a solid 15V at 240x. It wasnt a maybe - really, it was there. When you observe enough faint whatevers theres a reality check you get on wether its there or not. Fifteen V [visual magnitude not photo] is nice. It doesnt break any records, but Im happy i pulled it off.

Bumping up the aperture an inch and a quarter and using fairly high magnification, plus living out in the damned boonies [sorry dave] and coupled with the the subject revealing the nature of the seeing and its a pretty fairly plausible observation.

O'Mearas claim similarly done with the Harvard refractor is also plausible. Too, he's probably got better visual acuity on fine details - especially deep sky. Barbara Gordon is another one I've heard of whos got Santa Barbara instruments for eyes.

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Yes, it was Barbara Wilson who is the one with the "eagle eyes". As for you and your scope (8 inches aperture I think), you are doing pretty darn well to get down to magnitude 15. Now, what I will tell you is that you probably won't see the central star in M57 with an 8 inch, but I will *not* tell you that you *can't ever* see it. You are close enough to the magnitude threshold and there is enough variability in the factors involved that one night, you might just succeed. You should keep on looking (at least until you get tired of trying). There are a few reports of the star being seen in an 8 inch at very high power, so we can't necessarily rule out the possibility of you seeing the star, even though you probably won't. I had all but ruled-out M57's central star in my 9.25 inch SCT when I was taken completely by surprise when it popped-up in my 9.25 inch. I had looked for quite a while before in the 9.25, but had only seen the star in my old 10 inch Newtonian (and even then, I had only seen it once or twice a year at most). If I hadn't left my 5-8mm Speers Waler in the NexStar by accident during a slew, I never would have had the pleasure of being blown off the stool by seeing the star (and from my front driveway no less). It didn't stick around long, but it was there from the moment I looked in, so I just sat there in stunned silence almost not believing my eyes. I really truly hope that one day, you get that same kind of surprise. Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org

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If I hadn't left my 5-8mm Speers Waler in the NexStar by accident during a slew, I never would have had the pleasure of being blown off the stool by seeing the star (and from my front driveway no less).

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It's interesting what limits you can set for yourself strictly by assumption, even when you aren't aware you've made them. I don't think I ever given the central star a thought - I just wipe it off my slate and figure its in the realm of 12 1/2" scopes and up. I don't, or didn't consciously say that or think it, but its a subconscious assumption - don't even bother. I read somewhere its this and that and so forget it. Then by serendipity you scan across it with the proper set up an there you go.

Ive enjoyed high power views of M57 that probably broke some amateur astronomy "law" on whats acceptable or useful enlargement. But, it was always in the interest of seeing more detail in the ring -the star was a total write off.

I still think it is for me - atleast in Connecticut, however there is a place in Colebrook Connecticut, so dark, even Alan MacRobert from Boston has attended it in the past. Giving it a shot there might be a nice idea though its in the fall by that point - might be impossible.

It'll be a secret if I try it tho at a party. And if I succeeded - just given some sampling on this thread - who the hell would believe me?

Its still a write off for me - but it is cool knowing I am ALMOST - just ALMOST - able to. If it were only visible in a 16" aperture, it wouldnt have the same appeal.

Thanks for the compliment on my mag-bag!

Pete

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