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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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Jim Moscheck
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/08/07
Posts: 1824
Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #3319327 - 09/06/09 10:32 PM

Thanks Jeff,

Yep, Zebrawood for the focuser board, finder board, and a friend of mine turned a matching knob for the mirror box cover.

--------------------
Jim M.
Ford Amateur Astronomy Club
An ATM light bucket and a nice light cup.


"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa






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dave b
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 3880
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jim Moscheck]
      #3319364 - 09/06/09 10:55 PM

everybody always loves your focuserboard! (myself included)

--------------------
dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator



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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 2080
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Stefan Rostyne]
      #3320235 - 09/07/09 12:36 PM

Quote:

I use thin wood veneer, and seal it with a few coats of epoxy to make it durable. I used to paint the inner side with a mix of schoolboard black paint and sawdust. Recently, I use flocking paper.




Well, wood is the winner. I was very impressed with Stefan's scope. Aircraft Spruce has a 1/16" thickness mahogany 2' x 4' sheet for about $25. It's actually about twice as much as I need, but nice to have a little extra just in case. The weight should be just around one pound before I apply flocking paper.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 2080
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? [Re: Jim Moscheck]
      #3320254 - 09/07/09 12:48 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

I'm kind of kicking myself now about the focuser board. The scope I am replacing has a mahogany focuser board (photo attached) and altitude bearing guides. I also started this project with one, but it was warped. Instead of getting it planed, I just replaced with baltic birch.

The Zebrawood is really striking. I've also been interested in PurpleHeart and Bloodwood. Well, I guess that just gives me a project for the winter!

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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Jim Moscheck
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/08/07
Posts: 1824
Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #3320394 - 09/07/09 02:03 PM

Quote:

I've also been interested in PurpleHeart and Bloodwood.




I was looking at those, too. The guy at woodcraft told me the zebra wood I had was less oily/resiny than PH and BW, so I used what I had. I haven't noticed any deterioration of it in the three years I've had it. I did spray on many coats of spar urethane.

Back OT: After thinking about it I just might change my Kydex to Ebony Star Formica this winter. I'll see how it looks next time I get the UTA out of it's case.

--------------------
Jim M.
Ford Amateur Astronomy Club
An ATM light bucket and a nice light cup.


"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa






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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 47530
Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jim Moscheck]
      #3320505 - 09/07/09 03:15 PM

Both purpleheart and bloodwood are very heavy. I've worked with purpleheart and avoid it like the plague. Very hard, dusty and doesn't smell good.

Bloodwood usually has built in stresses that release when you cut it so it's always a surprise. Veneering would be a very nice option in this case.

You'll have to check out woodworkers source next time you're passing through - lot's of nice woods to choose from.

--------------------
Ron


NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies



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greenglass
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/22/06
Posts: 557
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: rboe]
      #3321081 - 09/07/09 09:03 PM

I used a grey underpad foam for rugs.

--------------------
10" f/5 reflector
7x50 tasco binos
60/800 tasco luminova



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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 2080
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #3335081 - 09/15/09 11:43 AM Attachment (20 downloads)

Aircraft Spruce delivered the 1/16" mahogany plywood promptly and it is being prepared now. I think this will be a good material for ATM use. Firstly, it looks GREAT. Aircraft Spruce calls it African Mahogany. I was not aware of this so I suspected another species such as Luan. Close inspection against Honduran Mahogany I have on hand shows no obvious differences. When cut and sanded, it has the typical smell of real mahogany. If it is not the real deal, it's pretty darn close.

The center ply apparently is poplar. The face plies are extremely thin. I gave it a light sanding with 400 sand paper and some artifacts (from the core?) became visible. Further finishing has covered this, but it probably could have went straight to finish w/out sanding. I am preparing it as I would with regular mahogany:

1) Apply grain filler and stain 2:1 mix;
2) Four coats of Sam Maloof oil/polyurethane; and
3) Two coats of Sam Maloof oil/wax.

It is taking the finishes very well. It looks like a million bucks. But there are a few issues with it:

1) On a 24 x 48 sheet the grain runs the long direction. Since the circumference of my upper cage is 42", it means that if I use one continuous piece, the wood grain will be oriented 90 degrees to the wood in the rest of the scope. For matching grain orientation I had to cut the sheet in half, so my light shield will have a seam opposite the focuser.

2) The flexibility is less than Kydex or ABS. For a 12.5" scope it is workable. For a smaller scope, one may need to immerse the piece in water and then form it into the required cylinder.

3) It will not be the lightest material available. I don't have a specific density for this. However, using a figure from Mel Bartels ATM site for denser Baltic Birch, the 5.8 square feet I am using should weigh no more than 1.15 pounds. (Having used carbon fiber epoxy in my last scope I am a bit spoiled in this regard.) Of course, the inside surface will still need a blackening treatment which will add a bit more weight. My new design is a double-truss, so it is much less sensitive to upper end weight than the Obsession style Dob.

Attached is a photo of two panels, raw and stained/filled. No oil applied in this photo. I have cropped it down and selected a low JPEG quality to make the CN file size limitations, hopefully the grain detail still shows.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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Don H
super member


Reged: 12/28/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Midwest US
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: dave b]
      #3337639 - 09/16/09 04:12 PM

Hey Dave,

How cold does it need to get for ABS to crack? I made a scope with it last year, and didn't have any problems yet. Maybe it has to be very thin (mine is about 1/8"). I think they use it on dashboards and other things where durability and extreme conditions are a consideration.

Thanks,
Don


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dave b
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 3880
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Don H]
      #3338640 - 09/17/09 02:34 AM

it never cracks when its new, it seems like a year or two, you see the cracks around the screw or nail heads.

we have discussed making each hole a slot so maybe it will not be as likely to crack as it expands and contracts.

--------------------
dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator



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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 47530
Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: dave b]
      #3339606 - 09/17/09 02:20 PM

I've been taught, since A&P school, that you over size fastner holes by 1/8" to accommodate thermal expansion. Otherwise you can't avoid the cracks.

Really big fastners (beyond the scope are discussing here demand a bit more but I don't recall the cut off.

--------------------
Ron


NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies



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Dick Jacobson
super member


Reged: 12/22/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Plymouth, Minnesota, USA
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: rboe]
      #3339680 - 09/17/09 03:05 PM

If anyone needs more ideas, I went to a fabric store and found something called "costume satin". Very dark black, non-reflective on one side, transmits very little light. I assume that it is used mainly for making witches' costumes.

--------------------
Equatorial Newtonians, 20" and 14"
"The purpose of life is to be defeated by ever greater things." - Rielke


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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 2080
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: rboe]
      #3419049 - 10/29/09 08:12 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

OK, here is the "finished" result. No blackening has been applied to the inside yet. I could go Krylon UFB or ProtoStar flocking paper. Since this scope is a test bed of several ideas I wanted to try, there is a good chance of a rebuild and I don't want to use up my flocking paper. (Make that 99% chance of rebuild since I goofed on a few key measurements )

The finished panels look very nice to my eye. There is a visible seam where the veneer was applied, but I can live with that. The panels had enough flex to fit inside the upper cage rings - barely. Attachment was made with 1/2" #6 screws.

The 2' x 4' sheet had the grain oriented lengthwise. Had I used it as a single wrap-around sheet installation would have been simple but the grain on the mahogany would have been oriented 90 degrees to the rest of the wood in the scope. So I slit the sheet to get two 2' x 2' panels with grain orientation matching the rest of the scope. The drawback to this is that the seam opposite the focuser board was under a great deal of stress, creating a 1/4" gap in the middle as both sheets bowed out. To remedy this I glued a narrow length of surplus mahogany ply to the joint and re-installed. The resulting seam is of course visible but acceptable.

The finished weight works out to about 1.1 ounce per square foot, very much in the ballpark with alternative materials. If I do rebuild the upper cage, I think I will use this material again.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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Jeff Morgan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 2080
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #3419052 - 10/29/09 08:13 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

One more view with the telrad/light shield extension attached. It is held on my a single dowel pin and 8 magnets.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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rboeAdministrator

*****

Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 47530
Loc: Phx, AZ
Re: Is Kydex Still King? new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #3419355 - 10/29/09 11:26 PM

Looking good, I need to see that in person some time.

--------------------
Ron


NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies



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