polaristom
super member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Alaska
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I purchased a used G-11 a few months ago and no matter how tight I get the clutches, it just wont hold with out slipping. I assume this mean I need to rebuilt and clean the grease out of the areas that it isn't suppose to be. I order some red Peterson Grease from Scope Stuff. Is this the right thing to do, will cleaning help the slipping? Is this good grease for cold weather? I live in Alaska near the coast. The temps are not too bad (usually between 0 and 20F) but it does get cold. Thanks for any advice you may have, Tom
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Chris Erickson
member
Reged: 05/08/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
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Hey Tom!
If you didn't buy it new, there is a reasonable chance that the previous owner took it apart and reassembled it incorrectly. If the Teflon discs and other stuff isn't in the correct order, the axis friction locks might not lock very well.
-------------------- "My Advice is always free and worth every penny!"
-Christopher Erickson
Network Design Engineer
Waikoloa Village, HI 96738
N19°57' W155°47'
Meade 16" LX200 SCT
www.data-plumber.com
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polaristom
super member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Alaska
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Hi Chris, I wish I had purchased this before you left. You could help me go thru it. Have you worked on yours before? I have seen some new teflon pads that you can install but I think I'm going to try to just rebuild it first. I'm still in DC, the shutter is ready for pick up from Plaschem. I'll be home Oct 1st and will work on the observatory and the mount. I'm going to wait until next summer to put in the perm pier. Thanks for the advice.
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Chris Erickson
member
Reged: 05/08/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
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Quote:
Hi Chris, I wish I had purchased this before you left. You could help me go thru it. Have you worked on yours before? I have seen some new teflon pads that you can install but I think I'm going to try to just rebuild it first. I'm still in DC, the shutter is ready for pick up from Plaschem. I'll be home Oct 1st and will work on the observatory and the mount. I'm going to wait until next summer to put in the perm pier. Thanks for the advice.
It takes a lot of torque on the axis nuts to really lock the clutches. Do you have the knobs with the triple stems installed? The stems don't clear the head well when set to 61 degrees North Latitude so you are going to have to remove one or two of the stems and work with just one remaining stem.
Does your G-11 have the Gemini GOTO system installed? If not, then locking the axes down really tight isn't as important.
Don't dive into rebuilding the G-11 lightly. There are fragile needle bearings in there that should be kept absolutely clean from any dust or other contaminants.
Frankly I am not terribly fond of some of the design decisions found in the GM-8 and G-11. Especially the design of the worm drive assemblies.
-------------------- "My Advice is always free and worth every penny!"
-Christopher Erickson
Network Design Engineer
Waikoloa Village, HI 96738
N19°57' W155°47'
Meade 16" LX200 SCT
www.data-plumber.com
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polaristom
super member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Alaska
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No I don't have the triple stems installed (these are on the locking nuts right?). I need to order a set of these. The G-11 I purchased is an older version, it doesn't have the Gemini system. My plan is to use this older mount for a year and if I like it upgrade to a new G-11 with the Gemini. There are some worm drive upgrades but they aren't cheap. Again thanks for your help, Tom
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Luigi
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4933
Loc: MA
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I had a G11 for 10+ years. It always took a lot of tension on the clutch knobs, as much as I could put on them with my hands, which is why the accessory knobs with the three levers were introduced. There's probably nothing wrong with your mount that the knobs with levers won't cure. I modified the stock knobs and added levers myself.
-------------------- 17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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Chris Erickson
member
Reged: 05/08/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
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Quote:
No I don't have the triple stems installed (these are on the locking nuts right?). I need to order a set of these. The G-11 I purchased is an older version, it doesn't have the Gemini system. My plan is to use this older mount for a year and if I like it upgrade to a new G-11 with the Gemini. There are some worm drive upgrades but they aren't cheap. Again thanks for your help, Tom
There is no reason to get a newer G-11. And if you aren't doing astrophotography, you don't need the new worm upgrades. The Gemini GOTO system can be added to your existing G-11.
Maybe all you need are the stem knobs for your current G-11 and you will be all set. When you install them, you will see which stems will have to be removed because of clearance problems at 61 degrees North latitude. The stems come on and off easily with a hex key wrench. You can even make your own stems with a drill press, a vise and a thread tap!
-------------------- "My Advice is always free and worth every penny!"
-Christopher Erickson
Network Design Engineer
Waikoloa Village, HI 96738
N19°57' W155°47'
Meade 16" LX200 SCT
www.data-plumber.com
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Svezda
sage
Reged: 06/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Texas
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My G-11 is also extremely hard to lock down even with the three handles on each clutch lock knob(it never 'locks' - just gets tighter). When I'm using my heaviest scope, a 43 pound 8-inch f/6, it just won't really hold it firm. In a related issue, I think the mount is rated for more weight than my 8-inch but in my case it's too much weight and play is very evident. I may be able to correct some of that but it's just hard for me to find time to mess with it (researching it will take some time and then must come up with a definitive answer to that and a few other issues).
I think the only real problem with the G-11 is the finicky nature of the mount in that it requires a lot of tweaking and adjusting (and not only once) to get it to work correctly vs. mounts like Tak or AP where it's pretty much perfect out of the shipping box (my used AP900 is about 11 years old or so and works as if it were new).
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tidroplane
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/02/06
Posts: 1180
Loc: Everett, Wa. USA
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Exactly what kind of tweeking and adjusting did you do to your mount to get it to work correctly? What was wrong? Was it new or a used mount? I`ve had my G-11 for 3 years now and it worked perfectly right out of the box, the mount gets a lot of use and continues to perform beautifly. I`m just curious, thanks..
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Svezda
sage
Reged: 06/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Texas
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tidroplane, I haven't done much myself but need some work done and I'm not knowledgeable enough to do it myself yet (before I do anything I need to look on the Losmandy user group) and have little time so as yet gave just let the problems go and use the mount 'as is'. As far as what I said about tweaking and adjusting I'm going on what you hear a lot from others on various fora (granted, many of these people are trying to get the mount to work /perfectly/, not just good enough to track a DSO and keep it in the field for half an hour - they are imagers and/or perfectionists and the 'issues' getting the G-11 to perform at that level have been discussed a lot elsewhere. The company even has had to produce upgraded worms, if I remember correctly, to improve performance). Mine has a common problem in that the RA needs adjusting because there's obvious play (very easy to see and feel when moving the scope). Once, in an unrelated issue, it got completely 'seized up' where the mount would hardly move at all. I consulted a machinist / local astro club member who said it had to be taken apart due to old original grease that had turned to a hard, dry layer. It was removed and the mount was regreased (my old AP turns as smoothly as new with no work done on it to date). Another issue: the mount to three-'pronged' tripod section connection (not talking about the legs that one normally calls a tripod) has a serious flaw: the holes in the mount base that accepts the bolts or hand knobs (I have the upgrade hand knobs which are much easier to attach than bolts) are //slotted//. The holes in the tripod section (the outer holes where the bolts are first inserted) are threaded. This means that when any heavy scope is placed on the mount the mount can and does tip forward or backward by about five degrees (it scared me when it first occurred) when the tightened bolts 'slide' upward in the slots (note that I tighten these as hard as I am able, and I am of average strength). Normally with a smaller scope like a Tak FS-102 it isn't a problem and doesn't tip noticeably or at all but with a scope on the upper end of the capacity for this mount it will easily tip the whole mount/scope combination up and then back down inside the slots in the mount base. It is an amazing oversight in how they made the mount. The holes need to be 1) round and close fitting around the bolt/knob threads (isn't it obvious?) and preferably 2) //threaded// to accept the bolt. The outside holes are threaded for the bolts/knobs but the holes that they go into are not. They are slotted at about a 2 to 2.5 to 1 ratio hole diam. to height vertically and have no threading. What this means is that the only thing holding the mount firmly to the tripod is the pressure you can apply to the knobs pressing against the metal of the outside of the tripod - because there are no threads or even a close-fitting hole to hold the knobs' threads as it goes into the mount bases. This may not be clear but if it is and anyone has had this issue with their G-11 I'd like to hear what you did - I'm considering having new holes tapped close to the original slot but then the tripod won't be aligned with one leg straight north - I suppose this won't matter. I don't know if any machinist who could fit the mount's base onto a lathe, though, to do this modification. Any ideas? Thanks for your help.
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rsbfoto
sage
Reged: 06/10/06
Posts: 341
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Quote:
I purchased a used G-11 a few months ago and no matter how tight I get the clutches, it just wont hold with out slipping. I assume this mean I need to rebuilt and clean the grease out of the areas that it isn't suppose to be. I order some red Peterson Grease from Scope Stuff. Is this the right thing to do, will cleaning help the slipping? Is this good grease for cold weather? I live in Alaska near the coast. The temps are not too bad (usually between 0 and 20F) but it does get cold. Thanks for any advice you may have, Tom
Hi,
One reason can be that the washers at the end of both axis are not in the correct order.
Another reason is that you have a tiny amount of grease on the Polyamid or Nylon clutch pads.
Take out the shafts and clean thoroughly those4 Nylon pads with warm water and soap and then with Alcohol.
Also clean very thoroughly bothy Aluminum surfaces which are in touch with the Nylon Pads.
The reassemble it.
I have 2 G11 loaded one with 55pounds euipment = 55 pounds counterweights and the other one with 66 pounds equipment and 66 pounds counterwights and both clutches are so tight that you can hardly move it with your hands.
So everything said here is nonsense, sorry, but that is the reality ...
G11 with 66 pounds load
G11 with 55 pounds of load
-------------------- regards Rainer
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D_talley
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 889
Loc: Richmond VA
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Quote:
....Another issue: the mount to three-'pronged' tripod section connection (not talking about the legs that one normally calls a tripod) has a serious flaw: the holes in the mount base that accepts the bolts or hand knobs (I have the upgrade hand knobs which are much easier to attach than bolts) are //slotted//. The holes in the tripod section (the outer holes where the bolts are first inserted) are threaded. This means that when any heavy scope is placed on the mount the mount can and does tip forward or backward by about five degrees (it scared me when it first occurred) when the tightened bolts 'slide' upward in the slots (note that I tighten these as hard as I am able, and I am of average strength). Normally with a smaller scope like a Tak FS-102 it isn't a problem and doesn't tip noticeably or at all but with a scope on the upper end of the capacity for this mount it will easily tip the whole mount/scope combination up and then back down inside the slots in the mount base. ....
My G11 mount has worked perfectly from the box and I have been able to track over 5 minutes unguided. I have not had any problems with the mount connecting to the tripod as experienced by you. Would like to see a photo of your mount to understand the tipping issue. I have a Meade 14 inch scope and 66 lbs of counterweights on this mount and it is rock solid.
-------------------- Dwight
SBIG ST2000xm
TEC 140 APO #74
Meade LX200 14 OTA
Orion 12.5 DOB
Celestron C8+
Celestron 102AZ
Losmandy G11 Gemini
Argo Navis
Canon 350D self mod
Hyperstar
ST-4 Guider
STV Guider
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 729
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For detailed technical discussion join the Losmandy yahoo! group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/losmandy_users
The clutches are designed to work DRY without lubrication. The clutch pads should be dry. Clean with alcohol.
I will warn you against a newbie mistake. The newbie mistake is to set the scope up, tighten the clutches down as hard as possible, then grab the counterweight shaft and notice that the mount turns easily in RA.
That's because of leverage. The clutches are working fine and will easily hold a balanced load. They are supposed to turn with the application of leveraged force. That's how the scope stays maneuverable.
There was a problem in the late 90s with a bunch of G11s that shipped with Losmandy grease and OEM bearing grease on the thrust bearings. The bearing manufacturer's grease and the Losmandy grease combined chemically to form a glue that gives a rough feel to the mount while slewing. The cure is to clean out the thrust bearings with a toothbrush and solvent.
IN any case no matter how tight you get the clutches, you will never get a lock the way you do with a lever design (like some of the Vixen and Tak mounts). But the mount will hold its load.
The Ovision upgrade is for people who want to have GUIDED accuracy of an arc second or better. Around 5 arc seconds peak to peak is pretty normal. Some people get that out of the box.
Greg N
-------------------- "Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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polaristom
super member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Alaska
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OK, I took the mount apart, cleaned everything, put some grease on the bearings and put it back together. Feels like a new mount. The whole process was pretty easy. Nothing fell apart when I removed the shafts, really an easy cleaning.
The bearings felt like there was glue on them when I started, they did not roll at all, Some brake cleaner and some rubbing and they broke free. I greased them with some Petersons Red Grease, worked like a charm. All I did was clean the clutch pads. They look like they need to be replaced. I'll probably order a new set from Losmandy. I'm going to set it up and make sure everything else works before I put in an order. These just seem to be a very nice mount. I'll let you know how it all works set-up in a day or two.
Tom
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 729
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Quote:
OK, I took the mount apart, cleaned everything, put some grease on the bearings and put it back together. Feels like a new mount. The whole process was pretty easy. Nothing fell apart when I removed the shafts, really an easy cleaning. The bearings felt like there was glue on them when I started, they did not roll at all, Some brake cleaner and some rubbing and they broke free. I greased them with some Petersons Red Grease, worked like a charm. All I did was clean the clutch pads. They look like they need to be replaced. I'll probably order a new set from Losmandy. I'm going to set it up and make sure everything else works before I put in an order. These just seem to be a very nice mount. I'll let you know how it all works set-up in a day or two. Tom
It sounds like you had one of the mounts that had the interaction between Losmandy grease and the OEM bearing grease. Once properly greased, a G11 can go for 20 years without needing it again, but some folks like to baby their mounts. I have read that Texas Star Party can be pretty dusty and hard on mounts and scopes.
Greg N
-------------------- "Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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Gardner
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 01/19/04
Posts: 678
Loc: New Hampshire
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Tom, Do you have the polar scope in the mount? If you do and the threaded collar that holds the polar scope is too tight it can cause not being able to tighten the RA clutch tight enough. Loosen the collar a bit and you will gain back some tightness in the RA clutch.
-------------------- Mini Borg 50 & Q-Guide
SV80S #87
TV 102 #1022
G11 Gemini
XT8
NHAS
my web site
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polaristom
super member
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Alaska
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Hey right on. Thanks for the tip. The rebuild help quit a bit, but I'll chect the finder collar too.
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