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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/25/09
Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: anivision]
#3380891 - 10/09/09 06:50 PM
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Well now the question is, does the CG5 apply the PEC corrections all the time since there's no way to turn it on and off via the menus? at least that I can remember.... If the latest HC/MC updates enable PEC in the CG5's then Celestron has given us an upgrade... :-) I'd like to hear from other CG5 owners if they're looking at this and what their experiences are.
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Chris Rowland
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/28/05
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: BlueGrass]
#3381594 - 10/10/09 05:43 AM
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There's nothing controlling PEC for the AS-GT in the 4.18 HC software. I think all the Celestron mounts need PEC to be turned on each time.
I asked my contact and got much the same reply as anivision, PEC can be done on the CG5 mount using PECTool but it's unofficial and unsupported.
BUT - and it's a big BUT - there is no worm gear index detector so the synchronisation of the PEC with the worm will be different each time. PECTool does a sync move but there's no hardware so nothing to sync to.
It is temporary PEC - TPEC. You will need to do a PEC calibration at the start of every session. However it might survive hibernation with a fixed scope.
But who knows what's possible! Maybe there's some way to determine or set the PEC index position so a previously determined PEC calibration can be used.
PECTool can be used to enable PEC, then disconnected.
Further experiments are needed...
Chris
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rmollise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/06/07
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: anivision]
#3381774 - 10/10/09 09:50 AM
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I sent a mail to Celestron: "Is it possible to use PEC Tools aquired from your website here to record and correct the periodic error of my CG-5 mount? My firmware on the hand controller is the latest (at least I think so) 4.16."
And the answer I got from them: "yes, it is already programmed into your hand control."
I hope this will help...
I wonder why they are not shouting this to the high heavens? Being able to use PEC with the CG5 would be a plus.
The latter part of the reply, though, "It is already programmed into your hand control" seems a little oddly stated, and makes me wonder if the person who answered you knew what she/he was talking about. Who will be the first to try a PEC playback with a CG5 (it's damned sure cloudy here)?
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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/25/09
Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: rmollise]
#3381968 - 10/10/09 11:46 AM
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We have a star party scheduled for tonight and I'm taking both mounts so I may get a chance... if the weather cooperates that is... what I was going to try was this: Power and align the mount, start up PEC tool and have it seek the encoder index. Then simply let it run with the corrections I've previously loaded to the mount. I'm thinking this way because there is no way to turn it on or off via the HC so having PEC tool force the mount to seek the index will give it a starting point, i.e. act like a start command... does this make sense?
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rmollise
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/06/07
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: BlueGrass]
#3382354 - 10/10/09 03:50 PM
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Quote:
We have a star party scheduled for tonight and I'm taking both mounts so I may get a chance... if the weather cooperates that is... what I was going to try was this: Power and align the mount, start up PEC tool and have it seek the encoder index. Then simply let it run with the corrections I've previously loaded to the mount. I'm thinking this way because there is no way to turn it on or off via the HC so having PEC tool force the mount to seek the index will give it a starting point, i.e. act like a start command... does this make sense?
I'm not sure. I would guess that since it has no way of establishing the worm index/starting point, you'd have to do a brand new recording.
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Chris Rowland
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/28/05
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: BlueGrass]
#3382381 - 10/10/09 04:11 PM
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The problem is that because there is no physical index marker the index position may be different each time the scope is started. There is no way for the software to know.
You may be lucky and it could be the same, or it may be 180 degrees on the worm wheel out in which case it could make the PEC twice as bad. So it probably depends - how lucky are you feeling :-)
Chris
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AlanT
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 08/20/07
Loc: 122º36' W, 47º37' N, WA USA
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: BlueGrass]
#3394603 - 10/17/09 01:16 PM
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Well now the question is, does the CG5 apply the PEC corrections all the time since there's no way to turn it on and off via the menus? at least that I can remember.... If the latest HC/MC updates enable PEC in the CG5's then Celestron has given us an upgrade... :-) I'd like to hear from other CG5 owners if they're looking at this and what their experiences are.
[ See EDIT below ]
I upgraded my CG-5 HC and MC to the latest versions just yesterday, and all looks right. However after reading this thread, I tried PECTool, and it does NOT find any encoder index. BTW, I happen to have replaced the motor/encoder in mine with a new one from Celestron just a month or so ago, so I'm pretty sure it's not because they've changed the hardware.
I'm thinking without being able to find an index position PEC training would not be feasible.
So.. the confusion really is about how/why Bluegrass's CG-5 is different in that it finds the index????
al
***** EDIT - did more testing, got more results, changed my conclusion, and raised more questions:
I tried again, this time letting the motor run a long time, PECTool reported it found the index after the RA axis rotated almost 90 degrees. So, the system isn't simply finding a motor encoder mark with a few turns of the worm (like it does on my CGE). On every power up of the mount, searching for the index gave the same result (90 deg rotation in RA) and had no relation to the starting position of the RA axis or worm wheel. What I don't know is whether the worm actually gets set in an indexed position, or if it's just a fluke of the motor control circuitry, for example just counting turns from the power up position.
OK, so regardless, I tried some things with PECTool:
Downloading the PEC from the mount was initially a flat line. Then, I tried some fake training using the HC. On the first try it didn't work. On the 2nd, I did get a change to the graph, but the session aborted early (I'm thinking that training with the HC might be flakey).
-- I think this part is interesting:
Then I uploaded the modified PEC curve to the mount. It took it and I verified it by D/L it from the mount and it was the same. I disconnected and shutdown PECTool, and powered down the mount. Restarted the mount, restarted PECTool, then D/L the PEC curve from the mount. It was the modified curve. So! the PEC info is permanent. I didn't see a way to clear the PEC other than to retrain, so I did a factory reset of the HC. That restored the PEC curve to flat.
So, there is a buffer that retains PEC training and it's apparently permanent. Now IF the mount is actually finding and remembering a worm index, then PEC is possible. I'm thinking actual training and more testing will be needed to find out if the mount will actually use the PEC info and if playback has to be "started" with PECTool each power-up.
Interesting..... (what else to do on a very wet Saturday morning)
al
Edited by AlanT (10/17/09 03:28 PM)
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nate spacewalker
journeyman
Reged: 06/11/09
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Re: Buying Celestron CG-5 Mount
[Re: AlanT]
#3714819 - 03/30/10 02:15 PM
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Did you ever determine if the mount is actually finding and remembering a worm index? (So that the PEC can be properly aligned with the geometric worm imperfections.) Or at least find the same RA location based on the home position as a reference? BTW: All HCs share the same capability to store PEC data.
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