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chgomonitor
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 90
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Got a 36 roll back from the lab of Fuji Superia 800 aka ProPress color prints. 4 to 8 minute exposures under good dark sky conditions. 50mm F 2.8, 135mm F 3.5 and 200 ~F 4.0 off a barndoor tracker mount on two separate trips over late this summer out in cornfields of rural Illinois.
In general, very disappointed. Others had suggested this film as good because it has higher Red sensitivity. I'll say! Basically, on all my exposures at 5 minutes and beyond this film seemed to plummet into Red-land. On the 6 to 8 minute shots Red is just about the only color represented.
Even monkeying with the shots off the hi-res CD in Adobe Elements does very, very little. I've tried boosting the other colors and/or decreasing the Red, but essentially - it is only the Red that is there. Also tried adjusting brightness, contrast and levels but same non-results.
I don't know, maybe my lab is also a factor, but they've only done right by me in the past, so I'm assuming its mostly the Fuji Superia 800 film at work here. To me, it looks like its showing a major color reciprocity shift after 4 or 5 minutes.
One of these nights had fair conditions - some haze but no moon. The second night had good conditions for the midwest, clear skies, no moon but fairly high humidity. (Had to run for my life from the descending country fog banks at 2am, LOL).
So, your experiences may differ, these are just my idiotic observations. I'm going back to Fuji Superia 1600 and I'll just deal with the higher grain.
Happy Sky Scanning! - Ted
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tommyhawk13
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/28/07
Posts: 696
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
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Have you tried Kodak Elite 200?
Even expired rolls off of ebay give good results.
Most ISO ratings are useless after a minute. After that, reciprocity failure takes over. It doesn't sound right, but try Superia 100, but Elite, or Ektachrome E-200 seems to be the fastest film available for our needs, with Fuji Provia 400X running a close second, but with far less red response. On bright emission nebulae, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
What f/ratio are you shooting at?
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Meade Starfinder 8,Meade SN-8 OTA, Orion Atlas, and a handfull of film cameras
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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1259
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Ah yes - the ever decending fog bank. Great if you see it in time - but not me. If you could see the look on my face when I realize what is about to happen - priceless.
Finding the right film is a process of elimination. Depending upon your targets that night eg: Cygnus - will show bags of red areas - lots of nebulae up there. The the whole negative shows red from side to side - then there are issues.
You seem to prefer a very fast film for using the barn door tracker, however, do not discount slower films. As mentioned E200 is the standard film for astro work. I would suggest getting rolls of 24 if you can, to shorten the test time until you find "your" film.
May I also suggest Kodak Ektar 100. You will need to expose longer - but it appears to have great potential from what we have seen so far. If your tracker is polar aligned quite well, and a 50mm lens is used - have you determined how long you can go before trailing is evident - or sky fog limit is reached. Each film is different in this regard.
If there is a haze - you can try a UV filter to help cut it, but watch out for reflections. Also refrain from using longer lenses as the haze will affect them more.
Just my suggestions. Igor
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The StarGeezer
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.
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chgomonitor
member
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 90
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Fog, um yeah. I really felt dumb, too. I should have known because everything got soaked with dew in about ten seconds. It wasn't two minutes later that the fog descended.
Thanks for the film suggestions. I'd like to stick with the print films if I can as I'm happy with my local lab - but they send slide film out. Maybe I'll try some e200. But I really think I need faaaaast stuff for way shorter exposures off the olde barndoor for now.
Thanks again and Happy Sky Scanning! - Ted
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Ian Robinson
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/29/09
Posts: 1164
Loc: Gateshead.NSW Nth Coast,Austra...
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Have you tried hypering it ?
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microbes
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 1216
Loc: Romulus, Sector 12
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I've had decent luck with this film, but I've never shot longer than about 3 minutes, and seldom longer than 90 seconds.
I know people talk about reciprical falure and how after a certain period of time the film will slow down, but for the first 2-3 minutes superia 800 is still very fast, with an average speed of about ASA 600 until you pass the 5 minute mark.
I suspect you might be over exposing and starting to fog the film at f2.8 if you shot anywhere near 8 minutes. I have fairly dark sky and when I did some milkyway shots with superia 800 at f1.9 I was over exposing and losing contrast at about 45 seconds, the best shots where in the 20-30 second range. Of course the milkyway is brighter than other parts of the sky, and f 1.9 is a really fast lens but f 2.8 is still a fairly fast lens.
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Dirt Cheap Astronomy
Voyager 114X900 Newt EQ2 * Sky Chief 60X700 EQ1 * Cometron 62X300 EQ1
Sears Ultra Wide 7X50 Binos * Vintage 16X50 Binos EQ1
Books, Barlows, Eyepieces, Camera Adaptors & Other Esoteric Junk.
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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After they added the fourth layer this film did not work so well. I had used it for years until then. Then I went to Provia 400. I was taking 45 to 60 minute exposures.
Here is a single photo of M42 before the change in the film.
1hr 8" sct @f6.3
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
Edited by BRCoz (10/08/09 09:33 PM)
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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1259
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Personally I'd like to see more of you shots if you would care to post them. Have you tried any other films since then?
M42 is a well balanced frame from what I see. Good blue response as well, but I love the tone of the reds.
Igor
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The StarGeezer
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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Thanks Igor. The other film I used was provia 400f and Pushed 1 stop. I don't have a film/slide scanner and M42 was scanned by my uncle. Here is a photo of M8 using the same film before the 4th layer was added. 8" sct @6.3 1 hour.
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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Here is M51 croped using provia 400f. 8" sct @6.3 1 hour. Fuji did not help astrophotography by changing the film.
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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Last one, M45 Fuji 800 before 4th layer was added. 8"sct @6.3 1 hour. All of these photos are about 10 years old and the only ones that I got scanned. I started using a Canon 10D when they came out and gave up on film. it has been about 5 years or so since I last did astrophotography. I was the guider and my neck could not take it anymore. But I feel the bug coming back. I'll check my notes to see what other film I used. I remember provia 400f was the last one before I went to the other side.
Bruce
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
Edited by BRCoz (10/10/09 11:08 PM)
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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1259
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Bruce - you have more slides - but they did not get scanned? If you don't have a scanner - the prices have come down, and features have gone up. Might be worth a look at the Epson line. Might tempt you to come back to the "light"? Good group in the film forum.
I gave up manual guiding last year. Prices on ST-4 auto guiders have also come way done - I think there is one in the classifieds. The weather has killed my efforts this year.
I'm still impressed with the quality of the reds with M8. Even the blues on M45 considering the f/6.3 is amazing to me. Kodak E200 is still available for 35mm and works well for astro. We are also experimenting with Kodak Ektar 100 negative film. Reciprocity appears to be excellent as well as colour rendition but with a blue cast which is easily balanced out. I will be experimenting with a UV filter with a very light red tint - a KR-1.5. It should cut back the blue cast and UV to hopefully tighten up the stars as well. The KR-3.5 will also take out some green from light pollution. Many going cheap on ebay.
Lots to try and enjoy. I'd love to see what else you have stored away with astro work.
Igor
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The StarGeezer
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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Thanks Igor for the comments. I did pick up an ST4 about two years ago, I just have not tried it out yet or taken the time to get it setup. I do have a roll of supra 400 for the time I get the autoguider setup. I guess if I could do astrophotography from my back yard I would. I have to go out to a dark site about 100 miles away.
I used film for about 3 or 4 years then digital for another 3. I had prints made of the best ones. I had a person at the photo lab who really did what I asked for my prints. Afte she left the lab sucked.
Bruce
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
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Nebhunter
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1259
Loc: Frostbite Falls
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Typical with the lab. If you look at the top header you will see a thread on Home Processing. M111 does his own processing - he shoots the film, processes it, scans it, and posts his work. Great stuff.
Did you get a manual with the ST-4? If you need any help with basic parameters to get started under normal conditions - where seeing is average - let me know. It took me quite awhile to dial it in - understanding each parameter, but once I did - incredible tracking. Just nothing to show for it - to date.
What mount are you using, and guide scope?
Igor
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The StarGeezer
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
TEC 140 (Katyusha) & F/F - Equinox 80 - Losmandy G11/Gemini - ST-4 guider. PENTAX 67ii - 400(EDif) & siblings. I shoot FILM.
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BRCoz
sage
Reged: 10/21/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Moreno Valley, CA
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I did get a manual and read it. I turned the ST4 on to make sure it would power on. Thats about it. I'll be using my GM8 or G11 depending what scopes I am using. Guide scope I have an AP 60mm or I can also use my ZS80FD. Send me a PM for some settings and thanks in advance for the help. I'll be going out to Joshua Tree national park this Friday, for a star party. There will be many scopes setup. I may try to image one of the nights with my DSLR.
Bruce
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60mm AP guide scope
WO ZS80FD 10th Anniversary
FS102, AR5, APM/TMB 130
102 Apex, 8" Meade LX10, C11
PST
GM8, G11 & ASGT
Denk Standard, 25x100 binos
30D, 10D, AE-1, OM1
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Nightfly
sage
Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 441
Loc: Sullivan, Maine
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Getting back to Superia 800. I tested Fuji Pro 800Z this spring:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3111160/page/5/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
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Nightfly Astrophotography
Sullivan, Maine, USA
Pentax 67 with 55, 75, 105, 165, 200, and 300mm lenses
Pentax Spotmatic II with 35, 50, and 300mm lenses
Kodak E200 acetate based chemical sensor
Flickr - Nightfly Photography
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