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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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LumpyDarkness
sage


Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 389
Loc: San Francisco bay area
OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs
      #3395011 - 10/17/09 06:40 PM

Blog version with images at: http://tinyurl.com/yfjr2rt

I originally planned a leisurely Saturday afternoon, driving to Willow Springs, about an hour
forty minutes from where I live south of San Francisco. But when the forecast changed and showed
good for Friday, and deteriorating skies for Saturday, the decision was made. Commute traffic was an issue, but with the longer nights, it really didn't matter if arrival was after dark, so on toward sunset I met Richard Navarrete at the rendezvous in Morgan Hill, and waited for another
observer, Olga Stakovsky, to arrive. She had not been to this remote observing site before, and
would follow us. Just as she arrived, another familiar face appeared... Rogelio Bernal Andreo.

The group drove south an hour, weaving trough traffic on 101, then onto 25, and eventually the J1
where civilization ends and the sky begins. I'd only been on the J1 once at night, driving home
after a fog-out, but this night time trip in had an entirely different feel - probably the
anticipation of a good night observing. As the J1 twisted and turned, there was nothing to see in
the dark other than a ribbon of asphalt and dark shapes to the sides... the drive actually became,
to me, a bit manic.

The last part, at Willow Springs, is all dirt, washboard, and rutted with rain-filled pock-marks.
All I could see behind me were three sets of headlights in a dust cloud, looking like a night shot
of the Dakar Rally outside Ouarzazate.

As we pulled in to Deep Sky Ranch, our host Kevin Ritschel greeted us, opening the gate. Steve
Gottlieb and Julien Lecomte were already there and set up. Minutes behind our group was Mark
(Polo) Johnston... and upon his arrival about 20 minutes of musical chairs, car-style, ensued,
until everyone was settled in. During the night it became confusing which Mark was being spoken
to, so Johnston volunteered he's been called "Polo" before. I referred to him as Pollo, which
unleashed Mark's surprisingly thorough understanding of Spanish colloquialisms and likely
expletives... we were off to a fun night!

Overhead, the sky was clear and dark, the Milky Way bright. The air was electric. Scopes set up...
eyes adapted... and... off we went, everyone into their own adventure.

Olga, Richard and I pretty much observed as a group. Richard and I both were using 18" Obsessions,
his was on an Equatorial Platform. Nearby, Kevin had 33" Dobzilla set up. Probably the most
aesthetically dazzling view of the night was early on, in his 33, of the Veil Nebula high
overhead. With an 82 degree AFOV eyepiece, the Waterfall side - NGC 6992, was a spectacular
glowing lacework ribbon of intertwined knots and "silk" threads. This was in incredible detail
- twists bunched into sheer fabric, other sections pulled apart to where you could see the finest
of strands. Those who saw it I'm sure would agree, this is not "gushing" over the view, it is an
accurate yet insufficient description.

I observed some Abell planetaries and Hickson Clusters of Galaxies. Several of the Hicksons were
also cataloged as Arps. Many were challenging. Olga was helping me star hop and identify the
correct fields. I found myself wondering how much better her vision might be then mine, and made
the mistake of asking a woman her age. Advice - don't do it! The only answer I got was a terse "younger
than you" (which was not a help). Olga was hopping between Richard's scope, enjoying some of the
Hicksons he was observing, mine, and the 33". She helped me locate and observe Hicksons 93
and 94, seeing components A-E in 93, and A-D in 94. We also had fun breaking up the galaxy trio of
NGC 7769/70/71 at high power.

Later in the evening (most of us observed from around 8:30 pm to 4:00 am), we used Richard's scope
to track some planetary nebulae. First was the Eskimo, NGC 2392. With a 3mm Radian putting the
view at 686x, the view showed a pinpoint central star, a tight black ring circling the
star, electric neon torus outside the inner black ring, and a large extended nearly circular
dimmer grey envelope with obvious mottling. This was an outstanding view - very easy to just sit
and stare at it. I moved my scope over to the Blue Snowball - NGC 7662, and while it was bright, I
was disappointed that it gave up little if any detail (there is none). I suggested NGC 1535 in
Eridanus, and it turned out to be even more stunning than the Eskimo, which was a surprise since
it is not nearly as well known. This planetary had all the attributes of the Eskimo, but its outer
shell was elongated and more subtle... another great view at high magnification.

I asked Richard to see the Peanut, NGC 2371/2372, in Gemini. This proto-planetary showed two
distinct lobes with glaringly different brightnesses, at 686x. The progenitor star sat alone, and
obvious, between the two puffs of star-stuff.

At that, I was off on a brief highlight tour myself. M35 and NGC 2158, M81/82, M33 - which
provided one of the best views I've had in years, M31 and its satellites, M78. I borrowed an
H-Beta filter and at 100x had an excellent view of the Horsehead Nebula - very distinctly
black against the glow of IC 434. Richard called it the best view he's had, and Olga, with sharp
eyes but no prior experience, found it easily as well.

Although I had looked at it earlier in the evening while lower in the east, I returned to M42 as
the treat at the end of the night. At 194x, all six stars in the Trapezium were easy, sharp
points. Thinking about it today, I didn't even bother with a filter on this target - it was so
rich in detail and contrast. It is, to me, the premier view in the sky. I almost have to put the
Veil up there with it, but the Orion Nebula exceeds it in dynamic range, and equals the Veil in
its sheer aesthetic beauty. The black nebula behind the tight group of bright stars.... the
sculpted arcs of dust, looking like molded clay, the knots in the bright turbulence around the
Trap. It is impossible to tire of this view... slide a bit to the north, behind M42, and M43, and
subtle sheets of nebulosity surround the bright stars in NGC 1977 - The Running Man...

Only fatigue and knowing the sun would come up too early caused me to stop there...

Before I knew it, there was a tap-tap-tap on the truck window, and it was time to pack and head
out. The drive out though the back roads was a relaxed treat. The fun time I had with friends is
something to look forward to again, next time.

Thank you to Kevin and Phetsy, and Deep Sky Ranch

--------------------
Mark Wagner

Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
NGC/IC Project


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8285
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: LumpyDarkness]
      #3395340 - 10/17/09 10:53 PM

Quote:

I moved my scope over to the Blue Snowball - NGC 7662, and while it was bright, I was disappointed that it gave up little if any detail (there is none).





On NGC 7662 (the Blue Snowball), I would have to disagree here. I see quite a bit of inner detail in the nebula at high power even in some fairly modest apertures. The nebula shows up as slightly oval patch that has an inner quite oval ring inside and somewhat irregular almost polygonal patchy outer edges when viewed at over 200x. I regularly see that inner ring in my 9.25 inch SCT, and when the seeing permits, I sometimes get a glimpse of the central star, although it is often difficult to see. Clear skies to you.

--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org


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LumpyDarkness
sage


Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 389
Loc: San Francisco bay area
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3395461 - 10/18/09 12:22 AM

Thanks David, probably is an overstatement on my part that there is none. There was none last night. It did seem odd, there was excellent seeing on other planetaries, but the Blue Snowball was pretty much just a uniform disc last night.

--------------------
Mark Wagner

Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
NGC/IC Project


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Tim L
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 564
Loc: Austin, TX
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: LumpyDarkness]
      #3395506 - 10/18/09 01:01 AM

David,

Thanks for the additional info on the Snowball. I'm like Mark, and hadn't been able to tease out any detail in it yet. Your observations encourage me to try again.

Great report, Mark! Those are some magnifications I only dream of!

--------------------
Tim

Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters


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starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 613
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: David Knisely]
      #3396011 - 10/18/09 11:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I moved my scope over to the Blue Snowball - NGC 7662, and while it was bright, I was disappointed that it gave up little if any detail (there is none).





On NGC 7662 (the Blue Snowball), I would have to disagree here. I see quite a bit of inner detail in the nebula at high power even in some fairly modest apertures. The nebula shows up as slightly oval patch that has an inner quite oval ring inside and somewhat irregular almost polygonal patchy outer edges when viewed at over 200x. I regularly see that inner ring in my 9.25 inch SCT, and when the seeing permits, I sometimes get a glimpse of the central star, although it is often difficult to see. Clear skies to you.




I found out last night that what you are able to see in the "Blue Snowball" is very dependent on the size of the scope you're using .

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


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LumpyDarkness
sage


Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 389
Loc: San Francisco bay area
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: Tim L]
      #3396072 - 10/18/09 11:58 AM

Quote:


Those are some magnifications I only dream of!





I'm sold on Richard's Equatorial Platform. It makes those mags a cinch. Very relaxing way to observe at high power. I'll put a plug in for Tom O here... very good product:

Equatorial Platforms

I am always amazed at others who get really high power without tracking. Alvin Huey is a good example. With his 22" Dob, he'll be up at over 800x, and a narrow FOV eyepiece, and come up with outstanding observations....

--------------------
Mark Wagner

Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
NGC/IC Project


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LumpyDarkness
sage


Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 389
Loc: San Francisco bay area
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: LumpyDarkness]
      #3396242 - 10/18/09 01:51 PM

To show David's comments were correct, here is part of an OR I posted several years back, pertaining to NGC 7662:

"at 103X very bright and distinct turquoise blue (planetary nebula). Central star visible occasionally direct and more frequently averted. No filter view at 103X hints at a bright core with dimmer smaller halo. At 172X I see two shells more obviously - possibly a number of stars, dim, in the bright shells. A dim large envelope surrounds the two bright shells. A star to the NE seems to be in a brighter portion of the outer shell (envelope). With an Orion Ultrablock filter the center is dimmer and takes on an annular appearance. The outer envelope is more pronounced with this mag and filter. At 294X the planetary is clearly annular with brighter extensions a short distance away to the ENE/WSW. At this mag with the filter a glowing somewhat irregular "neon" ring shows, overlaying the inner and outer sections. There are no stars embedded, but may be some bright small sections of bright ring protruding into the outer halo, looking like pinpoint stars."

All I can do is attribute my results Friday night to bad seeing at the time in that direction.

--------------------
Mark Wagner

Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
NGC/IC Project


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NGC 4565
member


Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 81
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: LumpyDarkness]
      #3396413 - 10/18/09 03:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Those are some magnifications I only dream of!





I'm sold on Richard's Equatorial Platform. It makes those mags a cinch. Very relaxing way to observe at high power. I'll put a plug in for Tom O here... very good product:

Equatorial Platforms

I am always amazed at others who get really high power without tracking. Alvin Huey is a good example. With his 22" Dob, he'll be up at over 800x, and a narrow FOV eyepiece, and come up with outstanding observations....




Thanks, Mark. I've really enjoyed using the eq mount since I got it this summer. Makes observing faint or highly magnified objects much easier. We'll have to put the Blue Snowball on our list for next month!

--------------------
Richard Navarrete
18" Obsession
TV 101


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wfj
sage
*****

Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 259
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: NGC 4565]
      #3396783 - 10/18/09 06:48 PM

Have had surprises with planetaries on the same night - have seen detail in the Blue Snowball with as little as an Orange Tube C8 at 406x, and with a 10" at 465x. Then I'll be looking elsewhere and not get anything out of Cygnus planetaries. Planetaries seem to suffer most for this.

Likely explanation is a localized jet stream in that area of the sky wrecking seeing. Pilots refer to it as CAT "clear air turbulence".


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sgottlieb
sage


Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 343
Loc: SF Bay area
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: LumpyDarkness]
      #3397332 - 10/19/09 01:14 AM

Quote:

To show David's comments were correct, here is part of an OR I posted several years back, pertaining to NGC 7662:

"at 103X very bright and distinct turquoise blue (planetary nebula). Central star visible occasionally direct and more frequently averted. No filter view at 103X hints at a bright core with dimmer smaller halo. At 172X I see two shells more obviously - possibly a number of stars, dim, in the bright shells. A dim large envelope surrounds the two bright shells. A star to the NE seems to be in a brighter portion of the outer shell (envelope). With an Orion Ultrablock filter the center is dimmer and takes on an annular appearance. The outer envelope is more pronounced with this mag and filter. At 294X the planetary is clearly annular with brighter extensions a short distance away to the ENE/WSW. At this mag with the filter a glowing somewhat irregular "neon" ring shows, overlaying the inner and outer sections. There are no stars embedded, but may be some bright small sections of bright ring protruding into the outer halo, looking like pinpoint stars."

All I can do is attribute my results Friday night to bad seeing at the time in that direction.




Great description, Mark. I must confess that when you mentioned to me that you weren't seeing much detail in NGC 7662 on Saturday night, I didn't give any encouragement to keep at it. I guess I forgot about these views at over 800x in my 18-inch a couple of years back!

18" (9/10/07): viewed this gorgeous double-shelled planetary at 807x in good seeing. The outer envelope is a sharply defined 35"x25" oval, oriented SSW-NNE. Roughly half-way to the center is a remarkable, thin oval ring oriented SW-NE (slightly offset in orientation compared to the outer shell) of very high surface brightness. This annular ring is brightest along a 90° arc on the south side and is also enhanced along a shorter arc at the west edge of the northern part of the ring. The ring fades and appears broken with a gap along the west to WNW edge. Inside the ring is a darker oval hole that is weakly luminous.

18" (10/19/06): In steady seeing, the double-shell structure was remarkable at 807x (7mm Pentax + 2.5x Powermate). The outer envelope is noticeably oval SW-NE, ~35"x25". Embedded within this envelope is a fairly thin, very bright inner ring with a sharply defined outline. The ring was irregular in surface brightness but clearly brightest at the SW and NE ends of the ring (ends of the major axis). The ring fades on the NW side and there was a small, distinct gap in the ring at the NW end. The surface brightness of the inner ring was high enough to give a glowing "electric" quality with an impression of a rope-like or twisted structure. The center of the ring was much darker than the ring and formed a substantial dark oval at this magnification, but was still clearly luminous.

--------------------
Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project


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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 1831
Loc: NorCal
Re: OR: Late Season Highlights from Willow Springs new [Re: sgottlieb]
      #3398642 - 10/19/09 06:14 PM

I have to put a plug for Tom O as well. He makes the best product. And I have to admit that using a platform will make my or anyone's observations even better. A friend is building an ultra low profile platform for me, about 2-3 inches high.

--------------------
Clear Skies,
Alvin #26
22" f/4.0 reflector and 30" f/4.3 StarMaster
FaintFuzzies | TAC | TAC-Sac


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