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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Beginning and Intermediate Imaging

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rg55
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Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 94
Loc: western US
Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5
      #3396895 - 10/18/09 07:50 PM

Can any of you kind starfolk point me in the direction of a tutorial for autoguiding? I'm ready to try something like M42 as my first DSO AP. Will use my C80ED with my mak as the guidescope in a side by side configuration, XSi as the camera. At least, that's the plan!

Thanks,

Richard

--------------------
C8 on AS-CG5 mount
Orion 127 mak
C80ED
Canon XSi
Sony HD videocam
Celestron Neximage




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DaemonGPF
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Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 3567
Loc: New Mexico
Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: rg55]
      #3396971 - 10/18/09 08:35 PM

What are you using for your autoguider camera? Are you planning to guide through the hand controller or through the ST4 port? If so, you'll want to look into something called a GPUSB, or you'll need the serial cable and a serial to usb adapter if your computer doesn't have a straight up serial connection. Then you'll want to get the ASCOM platform and drivers downloaded. Then look for another app called PHDGuiding, or Guidedog, or Metaguide (depends on what guide camera you're going to use and your level of comfort with the apps).

--------------------
-Josh

http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html

My AP Gallery


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rg55
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Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 94
Loc: western US
Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #3399058 - 10/19/09 10:05 PM

Hi Daemon, thanks for reading!

I have a Neximage and recently acquired a SPC900N. These would be available since I would be using the XSi for the actual imaging. The laptop is a Toshiba of XP vintage, and does have a serial connection. Where can I learn more about the ASCOM platform?

This is great information. I thank you for graciously sharing your knowledge.

Richard

--------------------
C8 on AS-CG5 mount
Orion 127 mak
C80ED
Canon XSi
Sony HD videocam
Celestron Neximage




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BV-OpPrime
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Reged: 09/07/08
Posts: 39
Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: rg55]
      #3400441 - 10/20/09 03:33 PM

I bought the Orion Starshoot Autoguider to go with by Skywatcher 80 Guide scope as I'm using DSLR Canon 40D and my Celestron C80ED on my CG5 mount, had a bad night the first night with calibration, but hopefully Thursday skies will be clear again

I bought the Starshoot as it has an Autoguider port on the camera that connects directly to the ST4 port on the mount, can't wait to get it all up and running, 1st targets are Andromeda, Triangulum & Pleiades

To be perfectly honest if you get your polar alignment right you can get some good images without autoguiding, I have some 5 min exposures etc on flickr that were taken unguided, but now I want perfection so I have to go autoguided

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30345959@N08/sets/72157608426952414/

Edited by BV-OpPrime (10/20/09 03:40 PM)


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DaemonGPF
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Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: BV-OpPrime]
      #3400561 - 10/20/09 04:32 PM

I've gone up to 120 seconds on my CG5 unguided. I used a program called WCS to digitally drift align my scope perfectly.

Another thing you can do with the CG5 is make sure it has the firmware in the hand controller and motors updated. This will give you the "all star alignment" routine which works wonders.

Richard,

ASCOM information can be found here:

http://ascom-standards.org/

It tells you everything about the platform, and the downloads are available from there as well. The drivers specific for Celestron should be listed.

If I remember correctly, there should have been a serial cable that came with your mount. Otherwise, something like this is needed:

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-accessories/maps-books-software/celestroncablenexstartelescopestors232port.cfm

NexRemote also has the cables you need and some nifty software. I've used NexRemote with my CG5 and my Nexstar 4SE mounts. Also allows control of the mount by software interface instead of the hand controller.

I have direct serial guided on my LXD75, but with the CG5 I used a GPUSB from shoestring astronomy - one end connected to the ST4 port and the other end went to the laptop via USB. With ASCOM it handled the interfacing between the mount and my cameras and guiding software. The concept going serial is very similar except the serial cable plugs in to the port on the hand controller and guides through the controller, if that makes sense.

--------------------
-Josh

http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html

My AP Gallery


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DaemonGPF
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Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 3567
Loc: New Mexico
Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #3400566 - 10/20/09 04:35 PM

If you do get NexRemote as a bundle, and you want to do something nifty with it, I modified my own .ini files to accept sidewinder joysticks and others. It allows you to actuate everything from the joystick, including menu actions, and RA Dec motion. Real easy to do.

--------------------
-Josh

http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html

My AP Gallery


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mclewis1
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Posts: 3947
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #3400853 - 10/20/09 07:03 PM

Richard,

I'm going to expand a bit on the good advice you've already received.

Your mount has two connectivity options for autoguiding ...
1)Guiding via the hand controller or
2)Guiding via the ST-4 (autoguider port) interface

To do #1 you need the Celestron serial HC cable (#93920). This is the same cable used to allow PC based planetarium type applications to control the mount. Since your laptop has a serial i/f you'll also need a serial extension cable (the Celestron cable is only 3' long).

For #2 you have a couple of options ... if you are going to use one of your webcams as an autoguider then you'll need a parallel or USB to ST-4 adapter (like the Shoestring GPUSB). This will give your computer the ability to control an ST-4 compatible interface (the autoguider port on your mount). The other option also comes up if you are not going to use one of your existing imagers for autoguiding and instead a dedicated autoguiding imager (like the Orion SSAG) that has an ST-4 interface built into it. With one of these imagers you don't need a specialized ST-4 interface like the GPUSB.

Now that we have a physical connection between the PC and the mount we need some autoguiding software. Here there are a few more choices ... PHDGuide, GuideDog, MetaGuide are some of the more popular ones. There are also some imaging applications that also include an autoguiding capability. For now it really doesn't matter which one you pick. The autoguiding application has to talk to the autoguiding imager. This is usually done via a USB 2 interface. You likely also need a driver for the specific imager that you are using (if you're going to use one of your wecam based imagers then you've likely got the drivers take care of). The autoguiding application now also has to be able to send commands to the mount to move the mount. If you go with the connect via hand controller (HC) option you'll also need the ASCOM platform (s/w to create a standard method of talking to a telescope mount), and the Celestron mount driver for the ASCOM platform (so ASCOM can talk directly to the mount).

Your choice to use either connectivity option #1 or 2 will come down to price and whether you are also going to use some planetarium software to control the mount (selecting objects to image from the planetarium program rather than from the HC directly). If you are using one app to control the mount and another one to autoguide you open the possibility of inference between the two apps. Using the ST-4 interface is an older and more direct method (it's an electrical interface with no commands to interpret) that is often preferred by folks who've been imaging for many years. The ST-4 interface is effectively dedicated to the autoguider application.

So to use some specific examples ...

Assume you have both the C8 and C80 on your ASGT and the C80 is in 3 point rings. The SPC 900 or NexImage is connected to the C80 and the USB interface goes back to your laptop. Your XSi is connected to the C8 and it's USB connection goes back to another port on your laptop. You really want these two imagers on separate USB ports on your laptop ... they each needs lots of bandwidth. Depending on where you place your laptop you may also need USB extension cables.

ASCOM and Celestron driver loaded, PHDGuide s/w loaded. Serial interface connected to a long serial extension cable, then to the Celestron serial HC cable and then connected to the HC itself via the small 4 pin connector at the bottom of the HC.

Focus both imagers, select an object and slew to it. Preview the object and center it (or orient the object the way you want to on the XSi). Select a suitable guide star with PHDGuide (may need to re orient the C80 in it's 3 point rings to find a suitably bright star). Start autoguiding. Re check your focus on the Xsi. Set your imaging/camera control app to take the appropriate number and duration shots. Start your exposures. Yes this is a bit simplistic, there are other steps depending on what software you're using to guide, image, control the camera, etc.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam

Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should


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DaemonGPF
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Posts: 3567
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Re: Need 101 instructions on autoguiding Celestron CG5 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #3400954 - 10/20/09 08:07 PM

I agree with Mark 100%. I also recommend the ST4 connection method, but the HC method will work as well.

The NexImage and SPC900 can both be used with PHDGuiding, Guidedog, and Metaguide as webcams. What you may find depending on your sky conditions (light pollution in particular) and the target you're trying to image, you may find the SPC900 and the NexImage may not be sensitive enough to detect a guide star in your field of view. I used an LPI starting out, and it worked fine until I slewed to M51 for the first time. I couldn't get a decent guide star on the LPI to save my life. If this scenario occurs, some good inexpensive alternatives would be a Meade DSI I or an Orion DSCI I on the used market. If you're going new, might as well get a dedicated autoguider, or consider a DSI II or DSCI II as alternatives.

--------------------
-Josh

http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html

My AP Gallery


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