kcgolden
super member
   
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Austin, TX
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The neighbor behind me has a horrible floodlight which not only lights up his backyard, it also lights up my master bedroom in addition to the tree tops in both of our yards. He tends to leave it on 24/7.
I want to build an observatory and building a light shield would be possible except for the glare bouncing off the trees.
I have been here 3 weeks without saying anything. I plan on talking to him but I want to be as prepared as possible. Obviously, I plan on just leveling with him that it lights up my bedroom and makes it impossible for me to build an observatory so long as its flooding my yard and trees with light.
I am willing to go as far as paying for a replacement fixture of his choosing, so long as it's full cut-off. I understand that people have a right to light their own yard so I don't want to impose on him by asking him to shut it off all of the time.
The other possibility is to offer to buy a motion detector but this is suboptimal if he actually wants his yard to be lit plus he has a dog that would activate it all of the time.
Is this the right approach to take? I certainly wouldn't expect him to accommodate my astronomy hobby by spending money on a more expensive light. But I hope that an offer to pay for a new light since it's so important to me, will work.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Any lighting websites or catalogs to recommend?
-------------------- Kelsey
- Scope : Orion 80ED
- Mount : Atlas with EQMOD
- Main Imager : Meade DSI III PRO
- Guide Camera : Meade DSI PRO
- GuideScope : William Optics ZS66 "Patriot"
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
   
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16222
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Just stick to the lighting up of your bedroom problem.
-------------------- Ted
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Posts: 440
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Quote:
Just stick to the lighting up of your bedroom problem.
Agreed. Leave it at that. Don't mention the observatory or your hobby.
--------------------
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Tonk
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Agreed - stick to lighting up bedroom - its a health issue
-------------------- Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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Thomas44
super member
Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
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Agree to the first three suggestions. Stick to lighting up your bedroom problem. That is indeed an issue.
-------------------- www.redlaser.co.uk
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FirstSight
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 3882
Loc: Raleigh, NC
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Also: offer to pay for a properly shielded light that you stipulate will provide at least as much illumination (but only in *his* backyard) as the current fixture does, but at less recurring cost *to him*, because he won't need to use as much wattage to get the same benefit, if the light is efficiently focused.
In other words, he's not simply doing you a favor, but actually getting something beneficial out of the bargain himself.
-------------------- Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars
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DeanS
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 942
Loc: Nicholasville, Kentucky
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Quote:
Just stick to the lighting up of your bedroom problem.
And tell him with the cooler weather coming you would like to sleep with your windows open for the fresh air.
-------------------- AP1200GTO AP900GTO
TOA-150 Tak E160
C9.25 Tak FS60C
SXV-H9 ST2000XM STV
8" LX200GPS
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Moonlite Focusers
www.doghouseastronomy.com
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WalleyeRed
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Central Ohio
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Hi. I would respectfully disagree with NOT telling him about the astronomy hobby. If I were in his position then I took down the light for the given reason that it lights up your bedroom, then I see you out in your new observatory, I might be mildly put off that you couldn't just be honest about it. I'd tell him that indeed the light comes in your bedroom, but that you also would like to build an observatory which he would be welcome to come over and enjoy! You might get someone else into the hobby while you are at it 
Either way, I know your light pollution problem as I have a "main" utility pole right in my back yard and about 40 lights across the street from my front yard (it's a public park with a lighted tennis court plus a giant mural that they like to showcase). It is really rough viewing
-------------------- Orion XT8i
Telrad, stock 9x50 correct image finder scopes
Stratus 13mm, 5mm
Orion stock Plossls 25mm, 10mm
Lumicon UHC, OIII, Orion Variable Polarizing filters
Orion shorty 2x Barlow
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40179
Loc: montana
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Welcome to Cloudy Nights! Glad to have you join the forums.
I agree with your advise in this particular situation; better to be completely upfront; and as you said, might get another interested in Astronomy!
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Welcome to Cloudy Nights! Glad to have you join the forums.
I agree with your advise in this particular situation; better to be completely upfront; and as you said, might get another interested in Astronomy!
I couldn't agree more with Carol! Yes, tell him it doesn't allow you to sleep as well, but also mention astronomy. The idea about replacing his fixture for free is great too; (i.e. at 250 watts say 12hr X 30 days / month = $14 at $.15/kWh, this means he'll save roughly $84 a year if you can half his wattage for the same yard coverage ). Have a beer with your neigbor, enjoy a sports game, and introduce him to the world's most amazing hobby!
P.S. I hope you'll post build pictures of your observatory! For those of us in apartments, it's a great way to live vicariously through others' good fortune!
-------------------- Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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markseibold
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/19/08
Posts: 1083
Loc: Portland Oregon
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Hi Kelsey
I do not know what the lighting laws in the state of Texas are but in most parts of the nation and the world, there are “Light Trespass” laws. This is not a question of whether or not your neighbor wants to turn the light off or change it or shield it or not. It is the law! It has to do with health issues. He is in violation of the lighting laws. Plain and simple. Think of his extraneous light as a toxic drug that inhibits your sleep. It is a known deterrent to healthy sleep as it has been proven that lights shining into bedroom windows will inhibit restful sleep necessary to health and to perform ones job daily and or to proper health. Humans have evolved for thousands of years to sleep healthfully in the dark. That’s just a scientific fact. Anyone that opposes this fact needs to talk to the authorities or go back to school! It has also been proven that these so-called security lights are worthless and only waste electricity. It has been proven that they do nothing to deter crime and actually might even increase vandalism and theft in some cases.
You should read up on the International Dark Skies Association site. I am sure they have the information there that you need.
It is usually a step process in a civil manner that should be approached. First confront your neighbor in a courteous way. There is no need to hide your desire for the hobby of astronomy. You can also just decide to explain to the neighbor that his light inhibits your sleep as it shines into your windows at night. It should be a simple procedure for him to add an inexpensive shield to comply with local lighting laws. That is a violation of the law if he fails to comply. It has to do with by-laws and health issues of the aforementioned. -“Light Trespass”. If he is unwilling to comply about changing or shielding the light, then you must approach the local city or country authorities and at least voice a verbal complaint or ask for assistance; next if that fails, then consider filing a legal complaint. Hopefully it won't come to that as most intelligent and civil people will understand and no one wants to create enemies with their new neighbors. Conversely, no one should feel embarrassed to take care of this in a civil and/or a legal way. That is your right to do so.
Honestly, I see these problems all the time and here in CN as I did in my own neighborhood when my wife and I built our new home many years ago in the east suburbs of Portland Oregon. The local street lights were a problem. I simply called the local lighting authorities and explained that the lights shone into my homes windows, disturbing us from our restful sleep. The lighting engineers sent out a crew within a couple days and they shielded the lights with wrap=around metal shrouds, directing the light down to the street.
I am surprised that anyone would tell you that you have to live with it as a forced annoyance. That is just wrong.
Good luck,
Mark www.markseibold.com My CN Gallery
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40179
Loc: montana
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Quote:
I am surprised that anyone would tell you that you have to live with it as a forced annoyance. That is just wrong.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said this. What we all have recommended is "working" with his neighbor on a friendly basis to come to a solution, both will be happy with. Most people do not even think of how their light(s), may be a problem for others, until it is brought to their attention. Most are happy to comply; only a few are not.
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40179
Loc: montana
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Quote:
P.S. I hope you'll post build pictures of your observatory! For those of us in apartments, it's a great way to live vicariously through others' good fortune!
Well, you will love this forum :
Observatory Forum
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Quote:
P.S. I hope you'll post build pictures of your observatory! For those of us in apartments, it's a great way to live vicariously through others' good fortune!
Well, you will love this forum :
Observatory Forum
The first thread is among my favorites Thanks! BTW, your observatory's location is breathtaking!
-------------------- Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40179
Loc: montana
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Thanks Kipp!
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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kcgolden
super member
   
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Austin, TX
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I have not talked to the neighbor yet but I thought I'd post a link to a picture of the type of light he has:
http://www.lampsusa.com/productzooms/designersfountain7/Q15206_zoom.jpg
I post this just in case anyone has seen ready made shielding for lighting like this. I know I've seen shields from the "round" type of security lights.
-------------------- Kelsey
- Scope : Orion 80ED
- Mount : Atlas with EQMOD
- Main Imager : Meade DSI III PRO
- Guide Camera : Meade DSI PRO
- GuideScope : William Optics ZS66 "Patriot"
Edited by kcgolden (11/15/09 11:18 PM)
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markseibold
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/19/08
Posts: 1083
Loc: Portland Oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
I am surprised that anyone would tell you that you have to live with it as a forced annoyance. That is just wrong.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said this. What we all have recommended is "working" with his neighbor on a friendly basis to come to a solution, both will be happy with. Most people do not even think of how their light(s), may be a problem for others, until it is brought to their attention. Most are happy to comply; only a few are not.
Carol
Sorry I did not mean to imply this. I just got the impression that Kelsey was afraid that there were little options to pursue.
And I do agree with all here, that kindly informing a new neighbor that they might discover astronomy from a another neighbors telescope is a good thing for the community overall. However, I have had neighbors in the past that would rather watch repeated TV shows night after night; conversely they had never seen a meteor, an eclipse, or anything including the moon through a telescope by middle age. When I showed them one night, their children wanted a telescope for a holiday gift and began to study astronomy [yet the parents after a few years still thought that astronomy was only for children or that you had to become an astronaut and/or work for NASA to make the hobby worthy.]
Mark
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
   
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40179
Loc: montana
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Hi Mark; all we can do is try to introduce Astronomy to them; some will love it, others will not. It's difficult for us to understand why everyone is not out impressed with the night skies. However, just like anything else, it's not for everyone.
Got to admit, we look very strange to others; observing alone in the middle of the night, freezing during the Winters. Then we wonder why they are not impressed! 
I had a late start in Astronomy, although I always was intrigued by the night skies. I didn't really become interested, until someone visited, & set up his scope. That first look thru the eyepiece was so amazing to me; the rest is history.
-------------------- Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 3605
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Hold a STAR PARTY at your house. Invite at least 5 other people with telescopes. Make a flyer and stick it on the front door of every house on your street and several other streets nearby.
Then discuss "lighting" when they show up that night. Make sure the neighbor with the light gets a personal visit and invitation from you.
-------------------- LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s-- www.texasastro.org
"Great minds discuss ideas;Average minds discuss events;Small minds discuss people." Unknown
Edited by Joe Lalumia (11/19/09 10:46 AM)
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 598
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Hi, In agree with others that have recommended that you go with the fact that your neighbour's lights illuminate your bedroom.
I don't know the law where you are, but for where I am in the UK, my local council has guidelines and procedures residents can leverage in addressing this specific issue, under "the statutory nuisance provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990". Hopefully you have something similar that you too can benefit from.
I have to admit that I do cringe whenever I read on UK astro sites about folks wanting to push the hobby as the primary driver for changing what others do on their own property.
We're all human, and unfortunately it is very likely that there are things that we ourselves do that we believe to be quite normal, that others may well find annoying, or worse - offensive. People are funny that way.,
Back on track - our process here does strongly recommend that before lodging a complaint, you: -
make notes of your sitiuation
at least attempt to engage your neighbour about the problem
note what responses (if any) arise from your engagment on the problem
Hope this helps.., and that you end up with a satisfactory result in the end.
Regards,
skybsd
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