xumaxer
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 265
Loc: 39º 45' N, 8º 48' W
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Can anyone please elaborate on this cameras?
I need assistance on making my mind up.
PtGrey cameras will soon be able to run Lucam Recorder...
Will the Flea2 be a real advantage? (firwire 1394b - 800Mb/s)
Thanks.
xumie
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Ciao
xumie
http://myskyatnight.blogspot.com/
________________________________
C11
FS-102NSV
G-11 Gemini
ST2000XM + CFW10
DMK21AF04.AS
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whduke
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/22/08
Posts: 867
Loc: Clayton NC
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Bird has a Dragonfly cam, its the best for planetary. I believe you can change to odd framerates, and its capable of 12 bits. The pixels are also I believe smaller which can be an advantage according to the scope. My advice is to ask Bird he has one.
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CELESTRON 9.25
Mount EQ-CG5
DMK21AU04
Astronomik LRGB / 742nm
Orion Filter Wheel
Neximage Camera
Powermate 2.5x / TV 3x Barlow
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whduke
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/22/08
Posts: 867
Loc: Clayton NC
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I'm however waiting on a USB3 skynx,or Point Grey cam to come out. They are the next generation!
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CELESTRON 9.25
Mount EQ-CG5
DMK21AU04
Astronomik LRGB / 742nm
Orion Filter Wheel
Neximage Camera
Powermate 2.5x / TV 3x Barlow
Edited by whduke (10/17/09 02:08 PM)
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xumaxer
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 265
Loc: 39º 45' N, 8º 48' W
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According to Paul Haese, it's not much the fps/speed that matters but rather imaging scale and camera's sensitivity.
He says that even with his C14 he needs to get down to 45/40/30 for RGB respectively at some 10000mm FL and 60fps will be viable only for 18-20"+ scopes...
My understanding from Paul's words tells me that full well depth is much more important than fps, and that at the moment the DMK is around 24,000 (maybe a little more) and the ICX424 cameras like the Skynyx, Dragonfly2 or Flea2 have some 40,000...
So, I believe that either camera is a good choice over the DMK21 and maybe price tag is the key factor on choosing one, rigth?
Anyway, any hint on those next generation cameras price/release date?
Thanks
xumie
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whduke
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/22/08
Posts: 867
Loc: Clayton NC
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Not yet the USB 3 is out, bet I don't believe they are good for astro yet. One key is the higher up cams you can select 40 / 45 and you can't do that with the DMK (properly).
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CELESTRON 9.25
Mount EQ-CG5
DMK21AU04
Astronomik LRGB / 742nm
Orion Filter Wheel
Neximage Camera
Powermate 2.5x / TV 3x Barlow
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Mike Phillips
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/21/06
Posts: 1719
Loc: Swift Creek, NC - 35.682 N, 78...
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http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html
"6. When will USB 3.0 products hit the market?
USB 3.0 silicon such as USB host controllers and hubs compliant with the SuperSpeed bus are expected to be available in the latter half of 2009. Mass market consumer-oriented products based around this new silicon are expected shortly thereafter.
We do not expect a large number of USB 3.0 compliant peripherals to be available until 2010. Microsoft itself has stated that it expects broad-scale deployment of host controllers, devices, and products supporting SuperSpeed in 2010 and not before.
Because of various delays, the very lengthy period of time it took for the specification to progress through to final release means that companies who engage in the design and sale of USB chipsets , such as host controllers and hub silicon, will not be able to complete their design cycles until sometime after the specification was frozen. In turn, prototype, evaluation and development kits for device manufacturers to start designing actual USB 3.0 devices is delayed, and thus it is easy to see how market deployment never happens overnight. Mass market adoption will be years down the road. "
I'm not holding my breath!
Mike
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Gallery/Blog/RSS/Tutorials
Mike's Lesson on Seeing, Collimation and Focusing
VIDEO HowTo: Planetary Processing Routine v8
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WayneJ
sage
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 278
Loc: West Chester, PA
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What benefit will USB3 bring to astronomical video cameras? It's certainly correct that framerates in excess of 60 fps at focal lengths >10M will require larger apertures than most of us use (10-14"). There's also to consider that without low-noise components and circuitry, there's no benefit to a faster data bus.
As between the cameras mention, one thing that no one has mentioned is that the Skynyx is a very heavy camera (over 500g) compared to the flea2 (about 60g). For those using fork-mounts, adding a 500g camera at the end of the optical train can certainly add to the inertial moment of the scope and increase dampening times. Considering that the flea2 has a 1394b data bus (800mbs vs 480 mps for usb2) and it's $300 cheaper than the Skynyx and has equal S/N, well depth, and other key characteristics, I've decided to go with the Flea2. The included software is more than adequate for capturing (win xp). Supporting in Lucam recorder will be nice to automate imaging runs, though.
Also, the Flea2 is only $300, or so, more than the Imaging Source.
Wayne
Footnote: I did prefer the t-mount on the skynyx to the c-mount on the flea2.
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xumaxer
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 265
Loc: 39º 45' N, 8º 48' W
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Good point there on the weight. did notice that too, on the PtGrey's flyer specs.
That's my target too, the Flea2.
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Ciao
xumie
http://myskyatnight.blogspot.com/
________________________________
C11
FS-102NSV
G-11 Gemini
ST2000XM + CFW10
DMK21AF04.AS
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WayneJ
sage
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 278
Loc: West Chester, PA
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Quote:
Good point there on the weight. did notice that too, on the PtGrey's flyer specs.
That's my target too, the Flea2.
I'll have more info about the Flea2 soon. I received one last week and have been putting it head to head against the Skynyx. I'm just waiting for some better weather (predicted for the next few nights) to make sure they get a fair evaluation against one another.
WJ
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xumaxer
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Posts: 265
Loc: 39º 45' N, 8º 48' W
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That'll be great.
Looking forward to it
Thanks
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Ciao
xumie
http://myskyatnight.blogspot.com/
________________________________
C11
FS-102NSV
G-11 Gemini
ST2000XM + CFW10
DMK21AF04.AS
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2337
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Folks:
There are still a few NOS Point Grey cameras on ebay, from a couple of sellers (do a search for "point grey camera" and you'll find them). I bought a Scorpion monochrome 1600x1200 for just over $300. That's more than $1500 off the price Pt Grey quoted me 2 years ago.
I've also got a flea 640x480 and a flea2 1032x776. I use the flea2 the most, and really like it.
Pt Grey sends me newsletters periodically via email. They've got a USB3 camera in the works. But the software I use (Astro IIDC) only runs firewire cameras, so I haven't given the new one much thought.
-Tim.
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"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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WayneJ
sage
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 278
Loc: West Chester, PA
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Thanks, Tim. I keep eyeing those PT Grey cameras on eBay, but every time I look, the seller has relisted the cameras at a higher price!
Further to my earlier points, however, I should add that those folks who use the larger format imaging chips for solar/lunar photography will certainly appreciate a faster bus speed, so that they can image larger sections of their targets at higher framerates.
Now... whether or not any of us have HD's in our imaging laptops that can receive data at the speed that the USB3 bus will permit is another story  I have dual 5400 rpm 120gb drives in a raid 0 format in my imaging "laptop", and I doubt that it can handle data at USB3 speed without dropping frames.
Wayne
note: it's an Acer Aspire 9700-series "laptop" that weighs 17+ lbs. It makes a great imaging system with its 20" screen, but cannot run off battery power for more than about as long as it takes to move it from indoors to outdoors
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WayneJ
sage
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 278
Loc: West Chester, PA
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One more note about the cameras on eBay. I checked with the seller of the Dragonfly2 cameras being listed at around $225. Buyer beware, however, as the seller said that the serial numbers for each of these "new in box" cameras had already been registered with Pt Grey. You will not be able to register these cameras with PT Grey to download the software/drivers. Even if you own another Pt Grey cameras, they tell me that you will be unable to obtain the drivers for the "grey market" dragonfly2.
Pt Grey did say that it is certainly permissible to resell cameras on eBay as "new", but they do not warrant or support them in any way whatsoever. Their warranty and support only extends to the original purchaser.
Of course, from my own experience with EBay, I have to be wary of anyone selling a camera that has a $1195 price tag from the manufacturer that is being listed as "new" for $225.
Wayne
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2337
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Wayne:
I don't use the Pt Grey drivers or softare, just the cables (and they're certainly not proprietary). I use Astro IIDC (on a Mac, GREAT software, by the way), but I would think that there should be PC apps that could run them, too.
My scorpion came completely unopened and factory sealed (several layers, in fact). I simply plugged it into a firewire cable and into the computer and got to work. For the price, I can live without the Pt Grey warranty. I might even buy another one, soon, to use as an e-finder, like I do now with my flea 640x480, with an 11mm c-mount lens. Very light, requires no balancing.
-Tim.
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"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2337
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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About warranties. I bought a "new" NS925GPS in 2004 that had been purchased by mistake by the original owner when he placed a second order for one when his initial order hadn't arrived as expected. It was unused in the box. But when I asked Celestron about the warranty they said they'd only honor it for the original buyer. Fortunately, I had gotten a few hundred off the retail price, and after almost 5 years I have yet to have a problem I couldn't fix myself at no cost.
I still see people advertising scopes "still under warranty" on amart (I haven't checked CNs ads) for prices approaching retail. That's when the buyer needs to really beware, I think.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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WayneJ
sage
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 278
Loc: West Chester, PA
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Tim -- The drawback for those working under the Windows OS is that they will need device drivers installed for their camera before it will be recognized by software. For Mac users, there is probably no reason to worry about whether they'll get support from Pt Grey. For Windows users, however, they will be S.O.L. without the specific device drivers for their camera which are available solely via PT Grey.
Wayne
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tim53
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 2337
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Wayne:
That makes sense, then.
-Tim.
--------------------
"In the old days, before the discovery of eruptions, the lava had to be carried by hand down the mountain and thrown on the sleeping villagers. This took a lot of time." - New Yorker Cartoon, ~ 1980
Hatch Observatory details:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3593949&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=1&vc=&PHPSESSID=
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retina boy
super member
Reged: 11/20/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Bryan, Texas
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I purchased one of the eBay point grey cameras, registered the camera and downloaded the software without problems. It is a discontinued camera. Yes, he relists the item at a higher price each time one is sold. The longer you wait, the higher the price. Just FYI
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Derek
CPC1100, Astronomik RGB, Skynyx 2-0M
Project: TEC cooled C14
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