Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3459
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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It seems I come in here every year with a post about curves since it is such a powerful tool and also has so many ways to be used.
I am constantly finding new ways to use it and I am always looking for more so here is my hope that we will all share our knowledge so we can all grow.
Even if someone uses things they learn here and starts making my shots look bad its still worth it.
I have posted this before but I have started using DDP as a way to get my shots started before taking things to PS CS2 , however sometimes DDP just doesnt work on a shot and I have to go right into PS and I have found this curve works on everything I have tried it on.
I usually run it 3-4 times in a row(sometimes 5-6 on dim stuff) then go to levels and set black points and it comes out very similar to a DDP.
http://www.mediafire.com/?w0yd0ndinez
This might not be the best way to do things but it has worked for me and I am totally willing to hear about a better way 
Another trick I have learned recently and I wish I would have learned it earlier is to use CTRL and left click to select the center of the brightest star or galaxy center and the darkest bit of sky and then select a part of the galaxy or nebula I want to bring out detail in last and then use the arrow keys to adjust , doing this several times gently seems to work well.
I have also found that when doing an inverse mask for noise removal or for a high pass that using this same CTRL click in the mask to make the background white and the area to be masked off darker works well.
Hope this helps someone , I have recieved so much help from cloudy nights over the time ive been here that I feel obligated to help back if I can so feel free to PM me if you need help and ill do my best.
If anyone has any curves they would like share or tips nows the time
-------------------- Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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bardo
member
Reged: 09/13/09
Posts: 54
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wow do i have ALOT to learn
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lawrie
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Okanagan Valley
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Good thread idea Erik. I'm not very good at processing, but here goes; To help stop stretching the background to much, make black and white anchor points,use the points you made with levels. To do this, when you open curves and place your mouse on the image an eyedropper tool appears, place this over the markers you made and use Ctrl- click (enter), a black point will appear on the curve line. Do this for the white point and the stretch between the anchor points. One hint is to use the up down arrows instead of the mouse to pull the line
-------------------- Clear Skies
Lawrie
Ultima 8
Atlas EQ-G
ZenithStar 80 FD
DSI Pro - Pro II
Canon 350D
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3459
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Ya that was the same thing I described above we just said it differently , it is a very handy trick.
Before my adjustments were of the shot background and all , this way seems to be more specific.
-------------------- Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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lawrie
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Okanagan Valley
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Sorry Erik, I realized that after I had posted. I think a point to add is that you must make small adjustments, gradually getting to you goal. As with everything in this hobby patience is the key.
-------------------- Clear Skies
Lawrie
Ultima 8
Atlas EQ-G
ZenithStar 80 FD
DSI Pro - Pro II
Canon 350D
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Astroade76
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 45
Loc: England
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Hi all, reading this makes me realise how bad i am at processing, all i do is drag my stacked image into ps cs3 and auto everything, please tell me what im missing out on?
-------------------- Ade
LXD75 SNT10 (imaging scope)
Skywatcher evostar ED80 pro (imaging scope)
LXD75 mount
9x50 Finderscop (guide-scope)
Sony A300 DSLR (imager)
Meade LPI (guide camera and some imaging)
Orion dew zapper (without this its an early night)
Selection of eyepeices, flatteners/reducers and filters
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Stardaug
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/03/08
Posts: 531
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Lawrie... can you explain your black/white markers and placing them on the curves a little more clearly? I'm not sure I follow the process exactly.
Thanks!
-------------------- "Keep looking up!"
Shawn / Ontario, Canada
Celestron CPC800 SCT w/XLT & GPS // Skywatcher Equinox 80ED F6.25 500mm APO // Canon Rebel 350XT unmodded // Milburn EQ Wedge (a Meade model modified to fit my CPC)
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Tonk
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4358
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
please tell me what im missing out on?
Ooh - were shall I start - er Everything. Auto is optimised for daylight photography so you will never get the best that way
Curves and levels are the tools you should use. Like Erik - I apply curves and levels in a repetative sequence until the stretch just begins to expose noise. I use a single point "C" curve with a point at 65/85 in this sequence
My last curve my be a verly slight "S" or reverse "S" curve to tone up/down lowlights/hilights as appropriate
-------------------- Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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Tonk
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4358
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
Lawrie... can you explain your black/white markers
Erik explains just this in the OP here - try that
-------------------- Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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bryansay
super member
Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Georgetown, TX
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Erik/Tonk, can you explain the benefit of doing several smaller curve adjustments rather than one large one? I agree that this works better, but I do not understand why.
Erik: Thanks for posting your ACV. That is VERY HELPFUL
-------------------- Bryan Sayler
Celestron C9.25; Orion ED80
HEQ-5; Orion ST-80 w/starshoot
Nikon D80; Canon 40D Hap Griffin Mod
Empty Wallet
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3459
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Ade - there are many people who right books on how to process from start to finish so I wont even try to explain how to do this since im not really qualified and doing like Tonk suggests is really a gentler way but for a start you could just download the curve I supplied above and take a stack straight from a program like Deep Sky Stacker and load the curve and run it 3-4 times and then set black points , its not anywhere near the right way to do it but its better then auto everything and thats still just a starting point really.
Bryan - I cant really say why its better , im not as technically minded as some in here who im sure can explain it well but im glad you find this thread useful.
I hope some other people can post there saved ACV files for us to experiment with , I know there really supposed to be done individually per image but some may find them helpful like I did my first season.
Here is a couple more ACV files I picked up last season.
A "S" curve
http://www.mediafire.com/?ymmzmjnmmog
A Tonk supplied "C" curve
http://www.mediafire.com/?dxjjqmwji5t
A curve I find helps boost red(it will only show in the red channel)
http://www.mediafire.com/?twm0jmnmmkg
By the way for those that dont know you just download these files into a place like My Documents or anyplace and then in the curves window in Photoshop just use the load button to find them.
Oh and there is an excellent write up by Psyire in another thread here on a real workflow to process and not the way I usually hack my stuff out.
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3407548&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=all&fpart=&vc=1
3/4 the way down
-------------------- Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
Edited by Nils_Lars (10/24/09 01:48 AM)
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lawrie
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Okanagan Valley
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Bryan, it may help to compare the histogram of your image to dough, if you roll it out (stretch) in small steady amounts it will stretch quite far before it breaks (clips). If you try and roll it to far to fast it comes apart (again clips). One way to help with this is to use anchor points, and the arrows on the key board, or type in values. Stardaug; When you open your image in PS, you should first create a new layer. An easy way to do this is to open the layer palette and grab the layer (called background) and drag it to the icon that looks like a turning paper, beside the garbage can. Then do the initial stretch, (like Erik and Tonk suggest), this brightens your image, so you can tell your target from sky background. Along the row of icons that you used to duplicate the layer you see a circle that is half black and white, click on it and you will get a info balloon that has a list. Choose the threshold ( second to last), your image becomes black and white and you get a window showing you a histogram with a white slider below it, slide the white marker to the left, close to the beginning of the histogram bulge, the image will be going white with just the edges showing black, if you have used flats then this darkest part of your image. If you didn't use flats then this is probably some vignetting and I would move the slider back towards the right a little to expand the black area a bit farther from the edges. When you place your cursor over the image now it becomes a eyedropper tool, look for a place that is black without stars (you can zoom in if you need) after you found the spot you press left click the mouse while pressing the Shift key, this puts a sampler on the image there, that is your black spot. Now you move the slider to the right and repeat for the brightest spot on the image, that sampler is your white spot. You can cancel out of threshold and if you want you can drag that layer to the garbage can to delete it. Your image comes back with the sample points on it, from here open your information palette and you have the readings for these areas. To place these marks on the curve line, when curves is open just place the cursor over your sample point and Alt/click, it will show as a black point on the line. You can place 4 of these samplers on an image, usually the black, white points and 2 in the target area. Hope this helps.
-------------------- Clear Skies
Lawrie
Ultima 8
Atlas EQ-G
ZenithStar 80 FD
DSI Pro - Pro II
Canon 350D
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Stardaug
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/03/08
Posts: 531
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks Lawrie! I appreciate you taken the time to detail this a little more. In terms of placing the sample marks on the curve, if I ALT/click it deletes them in CS4. I tried a fe different things to get the marks on the curve line but no luck. I must be missing something. And in the threshold part after moving the slider to the left my pointer does not become an eyedropper tool when placed over the image. Strange eh.
This is excellent info though from everyone in this thread. And thanks to everyone contributing curves as well. Always useful to have a good set of tools on hand.
Cheers!
-------------------- "Keep looking up!"
Shawn / Ontario, Canada
Celestron CPC800 SCT w/XLT & GPS // Skywatcher Equinox 80ED F6.25 500mm APO // Canon Rebel 350XT unmodded // Milburn EQ Wedge (a Meade model modified to fit my CPC)
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Psyire
scholastic sledgehammer
   
Reged: 06/24/07
Posts: 980
Loc: 55* North
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Shawn, Ctr+Click I believe..
-------------------- Celestron CPC 1100 XLT, Sky-Watcher Equinox 80ED
TV 31T5-Nagler, 8&13mm-Ethos
EarthWin Binoviewers w/ 24mm Panoptics
Elusive Photons.com
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Stardaug
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/03/08
Posts: 531
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Actually that was one of the variations I tried and Ctr/click on a marker did not place any marks on the curve.
I have a curve adjustment layer above the image copy layer. The colour sample tool is active and the curve layer is selected when I'm trying to click on the markers to place them on the curve - but nothing.
It's probably something simple that I'm not doing right - always turns out that way it seems!
Thanks for the help.
-------------------- "Keep looking up!"
Shawn / Ontario, Canada
Celestron CPC800 SCT w/XLT & GPS // Skywatcher Equinox 80ED F6.25 500mm APO // Canon Rebel 350XT unmodded // Milburn EQ Wedge (a Meade model modified to fit my CPC)
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