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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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MikeFitz
member


Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Fort Collins, Colorado USA
Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar!
      #3405532 - 10/23/09 03:00 AM


I picked up the Pentax 20x60 binos yesterday. After reading about them, I thought that I might like them better than my Orion 15x70’s. I also compared them to my Orion 72mm Eon. If you want the summary, the Pentax binos are going back today. They are not bad, but I did not see enough advantages to keep them.

Disclaimer: I am reporting on a single example of each unit and what my eyes saw. Your observations with the same equipment may be different. Also, along the front range of the Rockies, the turbulence off the mountains makes most objects look like they are underwater. That really affects the views, especially on planets or the moon.

What I liked: Easy to handhold in a pinch. Nice dark background that makes the stars pop. Smaller size makes it easy to balance. 3D look of star fields when compared to Eon.



What I did not like: FOV – I figure if an unsophisticated observer like me can see a difference, it is really there. During the day it was not an issue, but at night it was noticeable. Honestly, this is a minor nit. CA on Jupiter – see report. Bottom line, nothing that differentiated the binos enough to make me keep them.



Jupiter: The Orion 15x70’s showed flaring from Jupiter. I never did see just a round disk and any detail was missing. Pentax 20x60’s. Some folks have seen some detail such as banding, but I may have seen a glimpse of a band, but I could never say for sure. The CA was much worse than the Orions and that really surprised me. At least is was a disk with no flaring. Eon showed the sharpest view (Pentax 21mm for 20x and Ultima 30mm for 15x). No obvious CA in focus. (Inside and outside of focus was either green or red. Not a big deal because stars and planets inside or outside of focus are pretty boring!) At 15x no banding, but at 20 power I could just make out the bands at time. Of course the big advantage to the Eon is that I could pop in an old Nagler 9mm and be sure of the bands. Then I went to a 3-6mm Nagler to really show the planet. You can’t do that with the above binos!

Pleiades: Orion 15x70’s nice view. Lots of surrounding stars. Pentax 20x60’s nice black background. Stars really popped. More of a 3d appearance than the 15x70’s and no 3d from the Eon. Eon, more of a grey background like the Orion 15x70s, but no matter how well I focused the 20x60’s and readjusted the diopter, I could see more stars in the Eon.

Double Cluster: About the same as the Pleiades. More of a washed out grey background with the Eon and 15x70’s. Better 3d appearance with the 20x60’s. More stars visible or easier to see in the Eon. The 15x70’s had a better FOV that I found more appealing than the narrower 20x60 binos.

M31: 15x70’s nice little bright blob. There is no other way to describe it. No matter how hard I tried, I just could not see M32 (I am a little embarrassed to admit I am not sure which companion galaxy is which. I am calling the small bright galaxy M32 and M110 the more diffuse galaxy, I am sure I will be corrected quickly if I am wrong J ). M110 was not visible in any bino/scope. 20x60’s The best view of M31 was in these binos. With the darker background I was able to see a larger disk than I could with the other two. With averted vision, it appeared to be even bigger. I could not get that affect with the other two. M32 was easy to see. Eon, try as I might, with the grey background I just could not see as much as with the 20x60’s. Not even using my imagination! M32 was easy to see. When I popped in the Ultima 30 for 15x, I could see M32 with averted vision for sure, that was not possible in the 15x70’s.

The Pentax 20x60’s are nice. With M31 it had the best view, but there was not enough of an advantage to make me want to keep the Pentax binos. I did not want to stay up late enough to see the Orion nebula, I expect the Pentax binos would have done a better job there too. Of course with the Eon I can bump up the power and equal or exceed the Pentax binos. The Eon is also not a lot bulkier than the Pentax binos, so no big advantage even for saving space on a trip. In fact, the Eon fits into my camera bag much easier than the Pentax would leaving more room for my camera and an extra lense.

Not a bad bino at all, but not enough of an advantage to want to keep them.



Mike


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BarrySimon615
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Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar! new [Re: MikeFitz]
      #3405984 - 10/23/09 10:52 AM

You should have tried the 16x60's. They have the field flattening lenses just like their 20x60 brothers, but also a somewhat wider field of view (2.8 degrees). In terms of overall image quality, the stars thru the Pentax 16x60 are much like I see with my Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70. Both utilize their full aperture (tested) and both have good images almost to the field edge. Of course the Fujinon has the advantage with greater aperture (70 mm) and greater field size (4 degrees true and 64 degrees apparent) vs 60 mm of aperture and a 2.8 degree true and 45 degrees apparent.

The Pentax 16x60 comes into it's own for daytime use with center focus. It is a good binocular for looking at moving wildlife at a distance. Also works great on a Sky Window as the closer and somewhat smaller objectives are better matched to the size of the first surface mirror than is the 70 mm Fujinon's.

Barry Simon


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Erik D
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Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
Re: Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar! new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #3406817 - 10/23/09 06:08 PM

About 6 years ago I was shopping for a pair of higher power binoculars I can hand hold without using a mount. I have been taking a pair of 10X40 roof prisms on my overseas trips for many years. Found that often I wish for higher magnification for long range terrestrial viewing or more light grasp for astronomy. I had two pairs of 20X80s and a pair of 25X100. But I wasn't going to pack a pair of 20X80 bino and a tripod on a one week international trip.

After a long internet search and attending scope shows I narrowed my choices down to the Oberwerk 12X60 LW and the Pentax 16X60 PCF. I had used my friend's 16X50 bino for seated viewing for a few nights and was comfortable holding 16X with my arms supported. In the end I selected the Oberwerk 12X60 because of it's much wider 5.7 deg FOV compared to 2.8 deg for the Pentax 16X.

I was pleased with the Oberwerk 12X for a while. Resolution was good. No visible false color in day time viewing. I took them it on a Bermuda cruise. The ship departed from Philly so I didn't need to pack for air travel. 12X60 binos felt like a pair of up- sized 10X50s in my hand but offered the 25% higher magnification I wanted. That was back in late summer of 2004. When it was time to pack for my business trip to Singapore the following year I took one look at the 9 inch X 8 inch Oberwerk 12X60 and decided to take something smaller. I was dosing a 4 day trade show with one day set- up. May have one day free during the week long trip. I took a pair of Eagle Optics 8X32 roofs instead.

I did wish for higher magnification but never took the 12X60 Oberwerks on the road again. The slow/stiff focuser was OK for astronomy but frustrating for birding. I ordered a pair of Leupold Olympic 12X50 roof prisms in the fall of 2005 and have been very happy since. They are exactly the same size as my old 10X40 roofs, a few oz lighter. Have better resolution, color fidelity than the Oberwerk and are 1/2 the size. The focuser is light but quick & precise. A pleasure to use. A few month later I visited an Audubon store to check out Uber Optics of brands L, N, S & Z. Took the Leupold to compare. They held up pretty well.

The Leupold 12X50 roofs are 3X the price of the 12X60 Oberwerk and only have 4.8 deg FOV but I reach for them every time. The Oberwerks have not been used for sometime.

I still enjoy using high power binos for long range terrestrial viewing. Sometimes I wonder if would have been better for me to have selected the Pentax 16X60 with it's narrower 2.8 deg FOV.....But I am not going there. Already purchased a pair of Bruton 15X51 roofs I don't use enough.

ERik D


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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1294
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar! new [Re: Erik D]
      #3406938 - 10/23/09 07:31 PM

Mike,
The difference in sky darkness is mainly attributable to the exit pupil diameter. You seem to have discovered the advantage two-eyed viewing offers, whereby those faint fuzzies are more readily visible even if the aperture and magnification are a bit smaller than that of a telescope.

--------------------
Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces

My Gallery

Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.


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charen
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Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar! new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #3407542 - 10/24/09 01:34 AM

Mike- interesting report. I understand your decision making process. I have had 2x previous 20x60 Pentaxs over the years and sold them for some of the reasons you have given. I actually brought another one about a year ago as it was half price which I have now kept. I now think of them as a specialised bino. I think the trick is also to view them as 2x hi powered hi quality spotting scopes together which then gives you the 3D / relaxed / 2x eyed viewing image which only binos can give. With this rationalization I got used to the narrow FOV. The whole image is really very usable. I also tend to use the 20x60 more now during the day as a terrestrial bino on a tripod as Barry says he does with the discontinued 16x60's [big mistake Pentax]. I guess binos are like tools in a tool box - the Pentax 20x60 is another tool - yes a specialised tool - but the more tools the better.

Chris

--------------------
35 binos.
80mm Cat.
WO66ED
SV NH 80mm / EQ3
Meade 8in.LX90
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.


Edited by charen (10/24/09 01:38 AM)


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harbinjer
super member


Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 127
Loc: Southeastern Minnesota
Re: Pentax 20x60 close but no cigar! new [Re: charen]
      #3413767 - 10/27/09 10:17 AM

I have a Pentax PCF WP II 20x60 and I very much agree with Chris. Its a specialty bino. And if I had to keep only 2-3 binoculars this wouldn't be one of them. Mine seems to do pretty well on Jupiter. It also gives great images of the moon, and I can resolve details very well. Also, living in a white zone, it does allow me to see deeper than a 15x binocular. Some clusters that were just fuzzies now resolve a few stars. In darker skies they do pretty well on galaxies too. Also globular clusters really pop out like they do in a low power telescope, and I think, are quite pleasing. Also the Pentax's small size means only a small mount is necessary. And they're fairly comfortable when lying down on the ground, even though its a bit shaky.

I definitely agree with Mike though, in that their field of view is quite restrictive. That's the only thing that bugs me about them sometimes. But I feel like they have a niche between lower power binoculars, and dragging out a heavier mount with a scope and eyepieces.


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