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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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Buhlig
super member
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Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 192
Loc: Derby, KS
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Tonk]
      #3406306 - 10/23/09 01:46 PM

Wow! I appreciate the effort all. I think collectively I can definitely see the benefit of Photoshop, now there's that issue about convincing the CFO..hmmm. The PixInsite interesting, I'll dig into that a little..it has a trial period I may try.

I understand that the color rendering in somewhat of a personal preference. I say "somewhat" because, in reality, there is a correct color, no? Nebula's can (and are) redet.al. I guess my real question is, what is the correct color rendition for M33? I've seen this topic brought up in other threads..and seemed the net outcome was, "do what you like"...but I'm a bit more interested in representing the picture as it exists in the real, and not so much into making it look pretty necessarily (I think they are already pretty). What is it's true rendering? I know this brings up the topic of the human eye (what colors we see), which isn't so important. Maybe, I'm asking (and rambling) what is the correct spectral representation? Like mapping narrowband H-alpha, OIII ,etc to RGB only without the underlying data? I may not be phrasing my question quite right..feel free to correct me.

Sean

P.S. I like the effect Pysire had, but they all are eyepopping gourgeous.

--------------------
Celestron 80mm ED Apochromatic Refractor
Orion 8" Newt
Celestron 80ST achro (guider)
PHD via handcontroller interface
CG-5 Advanced GT Mount
Canon 350D
Philips SPC900NC
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derbysluggers/sets/72157605255114566/



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Nils_Lars
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Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3395
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Buhlig]
      #3406541 - 10/23/09 03:45 PM

I agree actually Pysire has the one I like the best , I processed mine on my laptop and now that I look at it on a CRT mine looks too dim.

I would like to hear what the worklow was behind Pysires version if he doesnt mind sharing.

If I had it to do over I might have started by learning PixInsight from the begining but ive invested a good amount of time learning PS CS2 and im not sure I have the paitients to start over.

--------------------
Erik

Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/


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Joseph Gillman
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 2772
Loc: Aston, PA
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Nils_Lars]
      #3406713 - 10/23/09 05:06 PM

Wow lots of different images from the same source data, interesting lesson in possibilities and there is definitely no one correct approach!

Each is great in their own way and has their own "personality"

--------------------



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Psyire
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 06/24/07
Posts: 978
Loc: 55* North
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Joseph Gillman]
      #3406796 - 10/23/09 05:53 PM

I posted this before in a different thread, but I'll put it here as well with some recent modifications.

My normal processing flow is something like this...

In Photoshop..

Use the Color sample tool to tag 4 points around the image in the darkest emptiest areas. Now you can watch your RGB values across your image when adjusting levels/curves.

3-4 Curves to bring the skybackground to levels around 80-100. These curves are almost always 1 point @ Output 190, Input 128 on the 'curve line'.

Levels to set black point so sky background is around 30-40.
(adjust left slider towards data on histogram)

Levels to adjust the middle slider to color balance the RGB values. (each color separate and watch your point values you set in step 1)

Star Reduction to about 75-80% (using http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/search/label/PS-actions)

Curves, set a point at the sky background and stretch the higher end to a desired level. If you are worried about blowing out a galaxy core or other bright area then deselect the core with a high 'feather value' to help supress the 'blowout'.

If you end up having to stretch far enough that you can't get you background levels down to 30-40 without clipping data from your object then what I do is this.. Select a small area of background that contains little to no stars. Copy and paste as new image, then gaussian blur to create a smooth color. Select this color with the eyedropper, then go back to your original image and duplicate it. Now select all and delete the image(in the duplicate), then use the paint bucket to fill the entire image with the color you selected. Now go back to your original image and 'apply image' using your solid color image and 'subtract' mode. This will darken your sky background once again without destroying any nebulosity. This can also be an effective tool for removing a light pollution 'glow'. Now you can also run another set of curves if needed to being out even more faint stuff.

One thing I strive for is to get a smooth transition from the object to the background so nothing looks 'clipped'. I never use eyedroppers in the levels tool to set black/white/grey points as I find this almost always clips data. I'd much rather use the above method to eliminate as much background lightening as I wish after stretching.. The more subs in an image the easier this goal is to obtain I find. 30+ subs I find is very nice at creating a background that's easy to work with, at least with my 450D.

Possible Gradient Removal using GradientXterminator. (http://www.rc-astro.com/resources/GradientXTerminator/)

High Pass Filter using a Layer mask to bring out the dust lanes to a desired level. Careful not to halo the stars near and in dust lanes. (use eraser tool if necessary)

Possibly increase color saturation depending on the DSO imaged. This is done using the LAB mode method and which allows for a gaussian blur on the color data only to help with noise reduction.

I also sharpen the lumenance in LAB mode with a unsharp mask or smart sharpen.

Select Background and run a Deep Space Noise Reduction. (http://actions.home.att.net/Astronomy_Tools.html)

Run a light pass of Noise Ninja to remove any overall noise.

Then usually just a small unsharp mask over the entire image.

Of course, this isn't set in stone and sometimes these steps are mixed up a bit. Or perhaps there is more masking or selective curves based on bright or dark area's.

With the above image I increased just the blue channel with a curve in order to get a desired look as I thought the original color balance was too green. I also did one other thing that I don't normally do or like to do, and that was I changed the hue on the magenta color in order to get the yellowish glow from the center of the galaxy. I really don't like changing color hues but for some reason I ended up with a weird magenta tone throughout the center of this galaxy. I also selected the reddish area's through the galaxy with a slight feather value and increased the red coloration through the saturation adjustment tool. In order to help pop them out from the spiral arms.

I think that's about it... lol

--------------------
Celestron CPC 1100 XLT, Sky-Watcher Equinox 80ED
TV 31T5-Nagler, 8&13mm-Ethos
EarthWin Binoviewers w/ 24mm Panoptics
Elusive Photons.com




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Tonk
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Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Psyire]
      #3406923 - 10/23/09 07:21 PM

Very good write up Psyire - and I do 90% of what you do - but my only critisism of your beautiful image processing is its too blue shifted :gtin: - then i read this

Quote:

With the above image I increased just the blue channel with a curve in order to get a desired look




Phew - I thought I had somehow lost the blue data in my processing . I have no problems with "looks" but it had me searching .

Its actually a pretty white galaxy on the whole with touches of orange from older stars in the regions between the arms and scatterings of pink from emmission nebulae. See here for a good rendering http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080913.html

--------------------
Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock


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TrevorW
super member


Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 170
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Tonk]
      #3406985 - 10/23/09 08:01 PM Attachment (5 downloads)

I worked this one in PS from a jpeg file posted above

your free downloads for the TIFF file has reached it's limit

Cheers

--------------------
GSO 8" RC, Stellarvue Nighthawk 80mm/f7 ED, Stellarvue 10x60 finder, Pentax K100d DSLR (unmod), Canon 350D DSLR (modified), EQ6 Pro mount. Orion Autoguider, numerous other bits and pieces

www.pbase.com/trevrw/astro

Edited by TrevorW (10/23/09 08:04 PM)


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Psyire
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 06/24/07
Posts: 978
Loc: 55* North
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Tonk]
      #3407248 - 10/23/09 10:39 PM

Quote:

Its actually a pretty white galaxy on the whole with touches of orange from older stars in the regions between the arms and scatterings of pink from emmission nebulae. See here for a good rendering http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080913.html




Hey Tonk, thanks for the compliments. Color balancing images definately isn't my strong point, so I've settled on going after what looks pleasing to my eye. I wish I could find a way to accurately G2V balance my dslr shots, the processes I've read are particularily confusing.

--------------------
Celestron CPC 1100 XLT, Sky-Watcher Equinox 80ED
TV 31T5-Nagler, 8&13mm-Ethos
EarthWin Binoviewers w/ 24mm Panoptics
Elusive Photons.com




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justabob
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1676
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: Psyire]
      #3407526 - 10/24/09 01:20 AM

Sean it is a real pleasure to work with such good thick data, you must have great skies. Well to further muddy the water I ran it through maxim dl digital development and finished it in iris, no ps at all. I like photoshop because of all the thrid party actions that are available and the excellent layer masking capabilities. But it's not the only game in town.



--------------------
http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all

Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II



Bob



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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3395
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 new [Re: justabob]
      #3407548 - 10/24/09 01:40 AM

Everyone did an great job with there processing for sure but most of all Sean did for doing the excellent job of capturing.

It just goes to show that all the time spent driving someplace and setting up , focusing , framing , shooting , freezing , guiding , having any number of issues and then putting it all away and going home at some indecent hour is really the easy part

Thanks again Psyire for the excellent write up , im gonna use that info for sure.

--------------------
Erik

Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/

Edited by Nils_Lars (10/24/09 01:41 AM)


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xatamec
member


Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Catalonia, Spain
Re: Convince me I need Photoshop - M33 [Re: Nils_Lars]
      #3407859 - 10/24/09 10:03 AM

Men, I did a horrible processing yesterday... I was working at the office and the monitor there is horrible. Today from my laptop at home I could do it a bit better:



The processing steps were the same than yesterday, but with less agressive paremeters.
I did it with PixInsight. I don't recommend you to try the free trial (just one month) if you don't learn a bit about its interface and processes, otherwise you will get lost and will hate the program.
Fortunately, instead of reading tons of tough documentation, there are some videotutorial available that will help you a lot to know how Pixinsight works.
Firstly I recommend you take a look at the Harry Page videotutorials: http://www.harrysastroshed.com/pixinsighthome.html

Then you can go to the program official page, www.pixinsight.com, and watch the official videotutorials and the many processing examples available there.

Hope it helps you.

Sergi

--------------------
My telescopes: WO Megrez 88FD APO and SW 200/1000
My mount: SW EQ6
My cameras: Cooled Canon 350D, QHY5
...and very little time to play with these toys!


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