hcsceo
member
Reged: 10/14/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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So last night was nice here in Austin so I decided to take a stab at some DSO's. After a quick polar alignment and some veiwing of the Moon and Jupiter I went for M2. It was basically straight up from Jupiter and I found it with no issues. I guess I've been looking at too many astronomy photos cause all I saw was a smudge  My book showed it to be 7.5 magnitude so I worked my way over to andromeda hoping that it was brighter. This took a little longer but I finally found it once I realized I wasn't looking at the right star in cassiopeia for my star hopping. Again a smudge and not real impressive, but really I was trying to get the hang of an EQ Mount and dialing in my scope so I wasn't so concerned with the view. This time I set my RA and tried to move to Pleiades using the RA and Dec reference dials. What do you know... It came right up on them. I must say that Pleiades was impressive and very bright and sparkled. Right now I only have a 20mm Plossl so I might not be completely setup for what I need but I did manage to "find" them which was my goal for the night. I got my collimater this week so I might try and tune up my scope as it was used and shipped half way across the country. I'm still looking for a Skyview Pro or CG-5 tripod. Right now I've got my Skyview Pro Head mounted to a camera tripod I have using a 2" PVC coupler and some threaded rod. My camera tripod was very expensive and has 1.5" legs so it is pretty sound but doesn't allow me to fine tune the Azimuth adjustment so I have to manually move the tripod a bit when doing my polar alignment. Not a big deal and seems to work fine.
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Steve
In the Texas Hill Country!
Celestron C6-N 750mm F5, Skyview Pro Mount
Proudly Classified as a NEWB
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hi hcsceo!
Warm welcomes to CN!  And howdy from another Austinite--glad you've joined us on the forum.
Sounds like you did great to find all those targets--especially with an unfamiliar EQ mount! You're right, last night's weather was exceptionally clear here.
If you stare at M2's smudge at high enough power, I would think your scope would begin to show some individual stars across its face--something to try next time, anyway.
When hunting a lot of these DSOs, you may only be able to barely detect their presence. In those cases, it's the thrill of knowing you're seeing something so distant and faint that is the reward. And it's YOU that's seeing it, in real time, with your own scope!
It's kind of like being in the back row of the stadium at a Longhorns game. The view isn't close-up like your TV at home, but you're actually there, seeing it happen live! It's a different type of thrill. (That's a good analogy for Austin, isn't it?  )
Good luck for future successes and keep posting on your accomplishments!
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Mark N
member
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 88
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Congrats on your first DSO's!! I see that you have a good set of filters. They will help a lot. Find a couple of eyepieces in the classifieds, and a good barlow, and you're set for yrs to come. And you'll never be tempted to add more to your eyepiece case.(Yeah, right.lol) Have fun.
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hey hcsceo,
I had another thought for you...If you enjoyed the Pleiades, you'll probably also enjoy the double cluster, located between Cassiopeia and Perseus. Prepare to be amazed!
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Brian Schmidt
super member
Reged: 01/25/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Roswell, GA
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Try cranking up the power on M2. It's one of the brighter globular clusters. It resolves into hundreds and hundreds of stars in my 12 inch dob  You should be able to start seeing some resolution in that 6 around 150x or so I think...
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Brian
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JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 975
Loc: Florida
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Welcome to Cloudy Nights and congrats on your first deep sky views! Don't worry with regards to M42 looking like a little smudge. It seemed that way to me when I started out with a tiny 60mm department store refractor years ago. I recall even with a good quality 5-inch cassegrain I loaned for awhile, the view didn't seem much better. As you gain experience and learn how to use your eyes in the unusual very low light circumstance involved with astronomy, you will surely see more detail.
As a recommendation, since M45 was so pleasing, I recommend trying for NGC884 and 869 (the Double Cluster) between Cassiopeia and Perseus!
Wishing you many more enjoyable views!
- Jay
South Florida
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Refractor manic. 
My Sketches
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hcsceo
member
Reged: 10/14/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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I've got to get some more eyepieces. I just saw m27 (again a smudge  )and will go out in a couple hours again and see if I can't get my eyes on the double cluster as you guys recommend. The moon is really bright but should be gone soon. The one eyepeice I have calculates to 37.5x magnification. I'm guessing a little more will help. I toook a nap this afternoon so I should be good to two or three.
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Steve
In the Texas Hill Country!
Celestron C6-N 750mm F5, Skyview Pro Mount
Proudly Classified as a NEWB
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JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 975
Loc: Florida
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With 37.5x you definitely are working on the lower end of the power scale. When viewing objects like M27 I prefer to use around 100 to 200x. Note that with higher power, your image will be dimmer. The 37.5x should work very well for the Double Cluster. Also, go for some of the clusters in Cassiopeia while you're in the neighborhood. I've always loved M103. Nearby NGC 457 is another treat.
- Jay
South Florida
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Refractor manic.
My Sketches
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hi hcsceo,
Your low-power EP is exactly why I recommended the double cluster! It will work great on that. The Hyades (Taurus constellation) will be up later if you're good as late as you say, and that will also look good at low magnification.
I'm not familiar with your scope--is it GOTO? If not, I'm really impressed with the targets you're getting. M27 is not the easiest to hit for someone starting out. It's a smudge, but you can probably tell at your magnification that it's a different shaped smudge than either M2 or M31. With higher power, it becomes a larger smudge, and more smudgy details become visible. Take a look in the sketching forum to get an idea of how experience at the eyepiece can get the most out of those faint smudges!
As long as you know where to find M27, how about a peek at Albireo nearby? It's the star at the bottom of the "Northern Cross." Beautiful double star with contrasting colors.
Since you seem to enjoy the star cluster views, maybe your interest lies there more than in the faint stuff. When you've seen the double cluster, take a look also at the region nearby around Perseus' brightest star. Lots of bright stars in there.
Also, NGC 457 in Cassiopeia (Owl or E.T. cluster) is interesting to see, too, though not nearly as dense as the double.
If the Wild duck cluster (M11) is still visible from your location, you might try for it--near the tail of Aquila.
Anyway, there's plenty out there to see that will wow you--find the stuff you enjoy the best, and go for those!
Have you used skymaps.com yet? It has some free monthly charts with great lists of suggested targets. A very good resource!
Enjoy the night!
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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Jay,
Great advice! 
You and I appear to be working off of the same script--so the advice must be sound.
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 975
Loc: Florida
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Tim's suggestion of investigating sketches (or I'd add, even black and white photos) is really good. Here's a link to a sketch I did of M27 within the past couple of weeks: M27 sketch. Even with my many years of observing, when I first swept-up M27 recently it looked like this smudgy little patch of light - nothing more. The details like the different brightness of the lobes and the classic dumb-bell shape emerged only by my carefully studying the object for awhile; in the case of my sketch, that "while" was over an hour!
Another good resource... Digitized Sky Survey. While you will never quite see all of the details captured in the professional images from the sky survey, it is very helpful for learning about the objects you're looking at. I reference it after viewing targets to see what details I saw and what I missed. Then, when I go back to the same objects, I can try for the subtle details I missed.
Hope these tips help!
- Jay
South Florida
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Refractor manic.
My Sketches
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JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 975
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
Jay,
Great advice!
You and I appear to be working off of the same script--so the advice must be sound.
It might be sound or it might be caused by delusions caused by lack of clear skies! I've had clouds all week and more clouds in the forecast; so much for living in the "Sunshine State."
Jay
South Florida
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Refractor manic.
My Sketches
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: Estonia
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Nebulae, galaxies and dense star clusters always have a smudge-esque quality to them. It'll take a while to learn to appreciate.
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hcsceo
member
Reged: 10/14/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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LOL you guys are cracking me up. No my mount is not GOTO but oddly enough my work in PCB design seems to be translating well to finding little dots in the sky I'm starting to get a good feel for the EQ mount but seem to be reaching for DEC knob instead of the RA most of the time. The most difficult thing is translating my spotting scope to the sky as everything is backwards. I'm going to look at M27 a bit more tonight. I can see in my scope that it does have some separation in it if I don't look directly at it ( if that makes sense ) It definately is fun.
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Steve
In the Texas Hill Country!
Celestron C6-N 750mm F5, Skyview Pro Mount
Proudly Classified as a NEWB
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ggarrison
super member
Reged: 07/22/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Austin, TX USA
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If you're going to be up that late, I recommend the Orion Nebula. It's spectacular and should still be impressive even with the lower magnification.
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Gordon
Celestron Nexstar 8SE with XLT coating - Baader Planetarium Hyperion 8mm-24mm Clickstop Zoom eyepiece
Celestron Skymaster 20x80 Binoculars
Smart Seat II Observing Chair
all in the hands of a total neophite 
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Register at ScopeBuddies.com to find local astronomy buddies! 
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hcsceo
member
Reged: 10/14/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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Well I managed the Double Cluster which was pretty awesome and also the Orion Nebula which was nice also. Both were very easy to spot. Orion Nebula was still a bit low in the east but I was able to see the gasous clouds around it a bit. It didn't look like a smudge and was more defined than the other DSO's I've been looking at, although no color. With more magnification I think both would be spectacular. My east view picks up a little glow from Buda/I35 and my north view picks up glow from Austin, but it is workable.
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Steve
In the Texas Hill Country!
Celestron C6-N 750mm F5, Skyview Pro Mount
Proudly Classified as a NEWB
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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hcsceo,
Great job! The Orion Nebula is one of those targets that works well at both low and high mags. A favorite target is the trapezium: 4 stars packed together at the nebula's bright center.
Your trick of not looking directly at an object makes perfect sense to us here! It's usually called "averted vision" and is the best way to "see" fine, faint details in an object. Your peripheral vision is more sensitive to light/dark than the vision in the center of your eye (remember rods/cones from high school biology?) That's a great trick to keep improving on.
You're a little south of my location, and your skies should be a bit darker than mine. Not only do you have to contend with the cities you mentioned, but then there's San Marcos, San Antonio to the south! You'll get your best views of objects when they get higher up in the sky, and light pollution has less effect.
Glad you had fun! I still think you're on the fast track to mastering a GEM mount! 
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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hcsceo
member
Reged: 10/14/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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I've learned something new "averted vision". I thought maybe my eyes were messed up!!
Yes GEM is strangly easy and complicated at the same time. The scales do make finding a bit easier but is far from perfect. Half the time I forget to set the scale before I move to the next object then spend a bit of time looking in the wrong place till I realize what I've done!! I think it will be a bit like making an espresso, once I get my technique down it will be second nature. Making a list of objects to see before hand would really help me out a lot.
I have to say you guys are the friendliest bunch. On my other forums (reeftank related) I would have already been called names and laughed at. Thank you for your newb kindness.
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Steve
In the Texas Hill Country!
Celestron C6-N 750mm F5, Skyview Pro Mount
Proudly Classified as a NEWB
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Tim L
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Austin, TX
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Quote:
I have to say you guys are the friendliest bunch. On my other forums (reeftank related) I would have already been called names and laughed at. Thank you for your newb kindness.
 CN is kind of like an information swap meet--you learn some new things, and share things you've learned with others. All the questions you're asking now, I asked myself less than a year ago! And, it helps a lot that we have excellent Mods on the site who make sure things stay nice and don't get out of hand. (I'm expecting Christmas cards from the Mods now )
I always appreciate that the guys who are doing astronomy as a profession take the time to interact with guys like us who are just starting out and help us get the most out of our equipment. That's a huge asset to this site. 
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Tim
Zhumell Z10 dob
Meade 60mm refractor
Zhumell 1.25" eyepiece and filter kit
Zhumell sky-glow, UHC, and OIII filters
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