Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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I hate to do it, but I have to nominate my home-city of Tombstone AZ as having the world's WORST light-pollution code. To be fair, I passed along the strange parts of this law to several city officials (land-mail), many months ago, and after hearing nothing back, I can only conclude that they're perfectly happy with the code as-is (i.e. no, it's not a mistake).
Link to my web page w/ law in PDF form
The city may be happy with their light-permission law, but I bet my web page won't please them much.
Tombstone is a strange, strange town.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
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magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 556
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
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On the 'bright' side (sorry, bad pun), at least they ban searchlights.
And they could have at least written the code to say, "150W bulbs must be aimed 'down-ish' or 'in the vicinity of the ground.'"
You could always run for office...?
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ssatko
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 904
Loc: NC
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WOW! That's truly incredible. I never would have guessed that a place in Arizona would be like that. Whenever the subject of Arizona comes up, I usually think of pristine, dark skies. (I guess that just shows my ignorance about such matters). Do you belong to a local astronomy club that maybe could petition the city government as a group? 
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Scott
SV80/9D
SV102ABV
Orion 4.5" Starblast
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Trust me, one thing about the people of Tombstone is, they don't like anyone telling them what to do. If any council-person so much as suggested a "state of the art" light pollution law, he/she'd be voted out next election if not recalled before that. That's the way it is here.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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ssatko
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 904
Loc: NC
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Quote:
If any council-person so much as suggested a "state of the art" light pollution law, he/she'd be voted out next election if not recalled before that. That's the way it is here.
Well then maybe my suggestion wouldn't be too helpful, especially if the local politicians are mainly interested in maintaining the status quo.
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Scott
SV80/9D
SV102ABV
Orion 4.5" Starblast
Meade LX90 8" UHTC
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Incredibly its states:
Quote:
Purpose: This code is intended to restrict the permitted use of outdoor artificial illuminating devices
emitting undesirable rays into the night sky which have a detrimental effect on astronomical observations.
I.e its specifically to aid astronomers!
The poiht here is has a goal and thhat goal cannot be attained (see below)
Gosh it even advocates LP Sodium
Quote:
Low pressure sodium lamps are the preferred lamp for minimizing adverse effects on astronomical observations.
OK here is were it falls down - now I undersatnd the fundemental error
Quote:
Outdoor Building Or Landscaping Illumination: The unshielded outdoor illumination of any building, landscaping, signing or other purpose, is prohibited except with incandescent fixtures less than one hundred fifty (150) watts.
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Mobius1
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/28/05
Posts: 700
Loc: Madison, WI / Gurnee, IL
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Wow... I guess they just expected everyone to filter out the sodium and whatnot.
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Martin
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(24" Cass on weekends)
Edited by csa/montana (10/20/09 06:18 PM)
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
Wow... I guess they just expected everyone to filter out the sodium and whatnot.
Well, sodium or not, the point is they allow 150W bulbs, neither shielded nor filtered, and more to the point, as many as you want.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Tiny
super member
Reged: 05/02/08
Posts: 197
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but are people actually doing that? i'd hope common sense and common courtesy would prevail in the end. Even if you could, why would you line your house and yard with 150w bulb fixtures that remain on indefinitely? It makes no sense, law or no law.
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Darenwh
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Covington, GA
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It's a law that places at least some controls on what a person can do. That's better than about 95% of the country... Most places can do just about anything they want to including placing a spotlight in their lawn point up into the sky with no repercussions.
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Daren
Covington, GA
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5749
Loc: London UK
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Quote:
It's a law that places at least some controls on what a person can do. That's better than about 95% of the country... Most places can do just about anything they want to including placing a spotlight in their lawn point up into the sky with no repercussions.
Quite so and in UK also - recently tried in invoke new UK LP code under light trespass from my neighbour's 500w lamp onto my property eg direct into my observatory and administrators of the code [local council building control] said there was no case to answer as the light didn't disturb my sleep and implied, because I'm retired, I didn't need to 'work' anyway the following day !
Luckily, after the initial flush of 18 months use the light is rarely on  but still points at me like a charged canon
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
but are people actually doing that? i'd hope common sense and common courtesy would prevail in the end. Even if you could, why would you line your house and yard with 150w bulb fixtures that remain on indefinitely? It makes no sense, law or no law.
Yes. Last March, a neighboor down the hill installed 5 unshielded 150W bulbs lining the front of their house, this in response to the City Marshal's recommendation to "illuminate your house" as burglary prevention.
Quote:
It's a law that places at least some controls on what a person can do. That's better than about 95% of the country... Most places can do just about anything they want to including placing a spotlight in their lawn point up into the sky with no repercussions.
One house in back of me has a spotlight right on my house. Sparingly used, thankfully, but when it's on, it's like daylight on the deck.
Another has twin spots to illuminate a playing area for his grandkids, and from my deck, they're absolutely blinding.
Common sense is rare in Tombstone. They recently installed speed bumps on two streets in the Historic district. These two streets are scheduled to be closed to auto traffic.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
but are people actually doing that? i'd hope common sense and common courtesy would prevail in the end... Even if you could, why would you line your house and yard with 150w bulb fixtures that remain on indefinitely? It makes no sense, law or no law.
If common sense and courtesy prevailed, this thread wouldn't be necessary in the first place. The prevailing "common sense" on lighting reads as "the more the better", and as far as courtesy goes, not a lot of people even think of their neighbors before making a change (e.g. large barking dogs).
As we all know, all it takes is one guy ...
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
administrators of the code [local council building control] said there was no case to answer as the light didn't disturb my sleep
The code actually includes limitations on light trespass causing the prevention of use/enjoyment of your property - its not just the prevention of sleep - that was an older code - so the local council are ignorant of the scope of the clean neighbourhood action section 102 (2006) . The DEFRA guidelines to councils on applying the code goes as far as pointing out the the old "stock solution" of telling the victim to install blackout blinds is just not on. I would thought that telling you you can sleep-in the next morning would fall into the same "not on" camp. Its a real pity your council couldn't care less.
I've been monitoring the application of this code as much as I can and I've heard of very few succeses - its toothless
Ironically the first action brought using this code was against a council office security light installation - the council in question were required to act against themselves!
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richard7
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/02/07
Posts: 1542
Loc: Sacramento
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Interesting indeed.
First of all.
While I do see a section on penalties, I see no provisions for enforcement at all.
Secondly.
I just love this in section 10-21-6,
"2. All other individuals intending to install outdoor lighting fixtures shall submit an
application to the Tombstone building inspector providing evidence that the
proposed work will comply with this code."
Does this mean that any one who wants to change their front porch light will have to apply to the building inspector first?
Just how many people would even consider doing that?
This is a law that's made to be broken.
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Richard Trost
Orion 130st, Ioptron e/r80
Meade 10x50, Konusvue 20x80, Zhumell Tachiyon 25x100
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Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1708
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
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Quote:
Does this mean that any one who wants to change their front porch light will have to apply to the building inspector first?
Just how many people would even consider doing that?
This is a law that's made to be broken.
I suspect a lot of cities have stuff on the books that aren't really enforced, and in Tombstone, this is one of them. Not that there's all that much to enforce anyway.
I'm looking forward to what Tombstone does with this when 100+W incandescent bulbs are yanked from the market in 2012.
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MJ "Morg" Staley
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M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
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Old Dinosaur
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/08/07
Posts: 1256
Loc: Out in the sagebrush
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WORST! Naw, around here there isn't ANY code of ANY sort.
I live in a real remote valley, but if someone wants to install a bunch of gazillion watt searchlights or anything else, they can do it.
As long as they pay their light bill, and all the idiotic paranoia lights are unmetered and a low monthly flat rate.
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WRS Observatory
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