astrobeast
member
Reged: 09/26/09
Posts: 14
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I have a 24mm UO Konig-II EP and have been looking for a match for binoviewing. All that seems to be out there on the used market are standard Konig versions, no -II versions.
Does anyone know the difference; was it just improved coatings or is there some other optical differences that would make them ill-suited as a bino pair?
Thanks
Rick
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Feidb
super member
Reged: 10/09/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Nevada
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Astrobeast,
Not sure if a Konig and Konig 2 would match. The lens configurations are different. The standard Konig is a 1-2-1 combination whereas the Konig 2 is a 2-1-1 configuration. Also the Konig 2 uses different glass types and has a bit better eye relief. The field of both, if made to the original specs is 55 degrees. One of each in a bino viewer may work just fine, but might also give you a headache if they are not close enough. You will have your work cut out for you finding a close enough match. Might be better off just getting two matching EPs and keeping the 24 for general use.
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Present gear:
16" Meade LightBridge
Meade 50mm straight through-finder
Lumicon green laser pointer
Orion Q-70 26mm, 32mm, and 38mm
Parks 2X 2" Barlow
Hyperion 17mm, 8mm
1 1/4" 18mm Russell Optics Bertele
1 1/4" 12.5mm and 6mm Coulter Optical Orthoscopics
1 1/4" X 2" 32mm Edmund Scientific war surplus Erfle
Tirion star atlas (white stars, black background) hand-laminated
Megastar
And a partridge in a pear tree
To nudge or not to nudge, that is the question
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4747
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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I'm not 100% convinced that UO ever offered an eyepiece that could be considered a true Konig design.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 2655
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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can you explain more Lawrence?
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Jim Romanski
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 843
Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
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Quote:
I have a 24mm UO Konig-II EP and have been looking for a match for binoviewing. All that seems to be out there on the used market are standard Konig versions, no -II versions.
Rick
I have a Type II. It's actually a pretty darn nice eyepiece for the price. It was my first low power eyepiece that I could afford. I've used it in finders and now I tend to lend it out to family members starting out.
By chance it happens to be back here at the moment so if you are not able to round one up on the used market send me a personal message. I'm not looking to sell it but I'd probably trade it for a Type I or something equivalent if that would help you out.
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Jim
17.5" Dob "Project"
13.1" Coulter
8” Cave
NP 101 on a CG-5
25x100 binos
Naglers, Ethos, etc.
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4747
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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I believe that most real Konigs were 3 element eyepieces, and although there was also a 4 element Konig, I'm not sure that the UO Konigs with 4 elements have them arranged in the 4 element Konig configuration.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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Jim Romanski
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 843
Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
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I believe that the UO Konigs were 4 elements and that the 24mm Type II was 5. Though not official you can find specs here:
http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/entry.php?sectionid=22&entryid=19
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Jim
17.5" Dob "Project"
13.1" Coulter
8” Cave
NP 101 on a CG-5
25x100 binos
Naglers, Ethos, etc.
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12222
Loc: Los Angeles
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Albert König (1871−1946) was an optical designer with many designs to his credit.
The original 1915 design was a 1-2 design (1 being the lens closest to the eye). This design is very similar to the RKE of today.
He followed that with a 1-2-1 design, which has been modified by later makers to 1-2-2 and even 2-2-2 (eye lenses on left).
Later in his career, he designed some multi-element widefields, including a 1-2-3 design (67 degree), and the typical designs 1-2-1 and 1-1-2 (eye lenses on left) became identified with Konig as the Konig I and Konig II, but I believe there have been also some modified versions so identified.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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kroum
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 630
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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Which of these designs is the Mk 80 konig that used to be sold by UO and Lumicon?
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10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars
32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow
Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.
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Jim Rosenstock
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 3716
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
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Quote:
Which of these designs is the Mk 80 konig that used to be sold by UO and Lumicon?
I'm pretty sure that's another design entirely. Some say the MK-80 is the same design as their older "wide-scan" design.  In any case, they're great eyepieces, if your scope isn't tooooooooooooooo fast....
As for Konig vs. Konig II, UO had most recently gone back to selling eyepieces labeled "Konig" rather than "Konig II"....did the glass also change back? Dunno. 
Jim
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kroum
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 630
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
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I've used a 30mm Lumicon konig MK-80 (or was it 32mm), and it was awesome in my dob. There was a bit of off axis stuff going on, but it was so far out from the center that it didn't bother me at all. It was also very contrasty and super immersive.
--------------------
10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars
32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow
Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.
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astrobeast
member
Reged: 09/26/09
Posts: 14
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All,
Thanks for the responses. I did the obvious and sent an email to UO. Their response in essence is that they are the same. Later (and most) versions of the Konig 24 had improved coatings and they eventually identifiend those EP's with improved coatings as "-II". Otherwise, they are optically the same. I did come up with a "standard" Konig 24 so I will be able to test in the bino-viewer how it works with the -II type.
Regards,
Rick
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Svezda
sage
Reged: 06/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
I'm not 100% convinced that UO ever offered an eyepiece that could be considered a true Konig design.
If the Koenig lens configuration diagram on Chris Lord's site is to be believed (it's the only place I've seen the orig. Koenig config.), I don't know any mfr. who ever made the original Koenig. It may have been produced sometime in the last century but I've never seen one. I don't know why older (1970s-80s) and current Koenig designs are even called by that name.
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Svezda
sage
Reged: 06/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Albert König (1871−1946) was an optical designer with many designs to his credit.
The original 1915 design was a 1-2 design (1 being the lens closest to the eye). This design is very similar to the RKE of today.
He followed that with a 1-2-1 design, which has been modified by later makers to 1-2-2 and even 2-2-2 (eye lenses on left).
Later in his career, he designed some multi-element widefields, including a 1-2-3 design (67 degree), and the typical designs 1-2-1 and 1-1-2 (eye lenses on left) became identified with Konig as the Konig I and Konig II, but I believe there have been also some modified versions so identified.
Don, could you point out some of the references you used for this info? I've never seen much on Koenig's designs. Thanks for your help.
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12222
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Quote:
Albert König (1871:1946) was an optical designer with many designs to his credit.
The original 1915 design was a 1-2 design (1 being the lens closest to the eye). This design is very similar to the RKE of today.
He followed that with a 1-2-1 design, which has been modified by later makers to 1-2-2 and even 2-2-2 (eye lenses on left).
Later in his career, he designed some multi-element widefields, including a 1-2-3 design (67 degree), and the typical designs 1-2-1 and 1-1-2 (eye lenses on left) became identified with Konig as the Konig I and Konig II, but I believe there have been also some modified versions so identified.
Don, could you point out some of the references you used for this info? I've never seen much on Koenig's designs. Thanks for your help.
Start with Chris Lord's "Evolution of the Eyepiece" monograph on the Brayebrook Observatory site at:
http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/BOOKS/EVOLUTIONofEYEPIECES.pdf
and also see:
http://www.europa.com/~telscope/koenig.txt
http://www.company7.com/zeiss/history.html
http://casonline.org/focalpoint/0698.html
http://www.asignobservatory.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51
http://www.eyes-on-the-skies.org/shs/eyepieces_distortion.html
http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/PageMill_Resources/Comparison%20test%20of%20TVPlossl%20vs%20Brandon.pdf
http://www.observers.org/beginner/glossary.html
http://jeff.medkeff.com/astro/optics/optical_definitions.htm
http://www.members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/science/opt04.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyepiece
You'll get a LOT more information than I posted.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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Svezda
sage
Reged: 06/01/07
Posts: 260
Loc: Texas
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Don, thanks for the links on König and his ocular designs. I could have Googled this but then I'd have gotten hundreds to thousands of links to sift through. Yours will keep me busy with the most important info for awhile...
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