RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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I was having a discussion on light pollution with a friend of mine the other day, and he stated that the Bortle Scale has recently been superceeded by the "Louvar Scale" (and map). I have tried looking this up in a number of search engines to no avail. Where can I find information on this new scale and map? Has anyone even heard of it? Perhaps a website could clear this up, and maybe even lead us to a better way to descibe the skies. Thanks! 
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Nobody?
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40161
Loc: montana
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Sorry, I for one, have not heard of this scale 
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
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DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Nightknight
member
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 92
Loc: The great pacific northwet of ...
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I can't find anything on it either. Frankly, I have no problem with the Bortle scale and I like the way it's tied to observational characteristics. If this Louvar scale is based more on measurement (ambient nanoLamberts or something) it may be more clinically accurate, but I wouldn't find it as useful to an observer. Having something like that to use when legislating light pollution regulations would be a good thing and probably necessary, but I'd keep the observable object-based scale at the same time.
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You can only talk astronomy with astronomers. Everybody else just yawns.
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40161
Loc: montana
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Very good points made! The Bortle Scale has been around a long while, & is very easy to use & understand for viewing purposes. I don't see it disappearing anytime soon.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3457
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Frankly, I have no problem with the Bortle scale and I like the way it's tied to observational characteristics.
I (am most other experienced observers) have plenty of problems with the Bortle Scale, but nobody's ever offered a scale based entirely on visual observation that seems clearly superior. It's all very well to criticize, but the criticisms are a little hollow without concrete suggestions for improvement!
But since the Bortle Scale is inherently subjective, most people on Cloudy Nights have taken to using the colored zones from the Light Pollution Atlas instead. These can be determined easily through the Clear Sky Chart, the Dark Sky Finder, or various other Google overlays.
Each of these -- plus direct instrumental measurements -- has its advantages and disadvantages. Unfortunately, trying to cross-correlate them seems almost hopeless, despite the (rather poor) attempt published in Wikipedia and popularized by the Clear Sky Charts.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40161
Loc: montana
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Tony, have you heard of the "Louvar Scale"?
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16198
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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An extensive web search turned up nothing for me either.
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Ted
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Well... I have been able to find nothing, either. Perhaps we'll hear about it in the future if it "picks up steam." Thanks for your time, everyone
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3457
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Tony, have you heard of the "Louvar Scale"?
Not a clue. I would have said if I had.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Ptarmigan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 2351
Loc: Arctic
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Where did you hear about Louvar Scale?
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Ptarmigans=Cute and Cuddly
Meade Starfinder 8
Nikon 10x50
Rebel XT
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magic612
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 548
Loc: Somewhere south of Chicago, IL
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Maybe it was supposed to be "Louver Scale" - as in, how many louvers does it take on your blinds to block out the unwanted light pollution.... 
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- Celestron C8+, Orion 90mm f/10, Orion ST-80, 5" f/8 Dob, 127mm f/9.4 refractor, 114mm f/8 on DS GoTo, 60mm Sears 6333-A, 127mm f4.4 refractor lens (current project), 12" f/5 mirror (future project)
- Orion Vista 10x50s (5 deg), Sears #6207 7x35 (7 deg), Jason #138 Statesman 7x35 (11.5 deg)
Yes, I'm addicted to telescopes and binoculars. I am getting help. Every time I look at the heavens, it helps.
http://www.eyesonthesky.com
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hm insulators
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 1357
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Yeah, perhaps it is the "Louver Scale." I heard it from a friend at the university. Apparently he heard of it from one of the professors. I'll try to find out more; this is starting to bug me!  Hopefully someone can help us out with this one.
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Hi, again, everyone... It looks like I might be able to meet with this professor who first brought up this Louvar Scale. I'll try to stop by and see him later this evening. I'll keep you all posted on what I find out. Like I said, this one's really getting to me. The idea of a whole new scale sounds exciting; the suspense is killing me! And to clarify some (possible?) misconceptions, I don't personally have a rift with the Bortle Scale. I'm just really curious about the Louvar Scale, and its possible implications on describing skies. Most Sincerely,
Kipp
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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GUNER
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/19/04
Posts: 1612
Loc: Bedminster,NJ USA
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Is the professor's name Lou Ver per chance  I think he's publishing a book & wants to force it on someone other then his students so he started a rumor to create a buzz.
Remember if it's not on Google it doesn't exist 
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Thomas
17mm ETHOS NEAF Door Prize
THANK-YOU TELEVUE!!!!
12" SuperCharged LX-200 GPS
TAK SKY 90 on a Vixen Skypod
Stacked GOLD!PST/EXT-70AT/DSX-125
Infinity 2-1 CCD Camera with Lucam Recorder
Custom Scientific 1.25" LRGB filters
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Thomas44
super member
Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
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Got nothing both on "Louvar Scale" and "Louver Scale" here on my end..but there is a Dr. Joseph Louvar.
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www.redlaser.co.uk
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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Nope... His name is not even related to "Louvar" or "lou ver" or "Louver." I have tried contacting him with no luck thus far. I'll keep everyone posted though. I'm about to start pulling my hair out!
  
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40161
Loc: montana
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Since absolutely no information is to be found on this new scale; let alone replacing the Bortle, it seems not very likely. 
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Thomas44
super member
Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
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I see. I was hoping that it has something to do with him. Keep us posted then.
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www.redlaser.co.uk
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