GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Last night was quite transparent. But I live in Ottawa, the city and 'attached'/adjacent communities adding up to the better part of a million souls. Moreover, I have to endure many ghastly, old-fashioned cobra head street lights, whose luminaires are still *very* directly seen from the 9th floor. In other words, lots of glare.
Just after Triangulum and neighbors had passed upper culmination--and hence cleared the balcony above me--I stepped out with my Mk II right angle bino in 9X60 mode. Note that I was just watching TV, and the room was illuminated by a compact flourescent lamp to boot.
As you can imagine, I was not dark adapted! But in spite of all this, as soon as I swept over the area, there was M33, a sizeable splotch that could be seen just about with direct vision. And this was within 15 *seconds* of leaving the room.
This erstwhile notoriously difficult galaxy can't be all that faint after all. And you can understand why I'm perplexed when folks at a star party get all wrapped around the axle if the tiniest spark of white light winks on somewhere on the field.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Sounds like you had some great skies last night as well! Is this one of those things that clean transparent skies and good seeing make up for some sense of your dark adaption?..if that makes any sense?
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1230
Loc: Estonia
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It's definitely quite bright, if you know where to look. I had a similar observation of it with 100mm binos, observing only a minute after I had blinded myself.
It reminds me of a similar observation where I could see faint traces of the milky way in aquila, and the scutum star cloud quite clearly, while staring past a sodium streetlight in a red zone.
Despite all that, though, I don't understand why this is at all an argument for having more lights at a dark site - I much prefer the views when I am dark adapted.
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tatarjj
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 1134
Loc: Austin, TX
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Well, obviously, M33 isn't difficult under moderately dark skies. In fact, it's a fairly easy naked eye object assuming you're under very dark skies and aren't partially night-blind.
The less dark adapted you are, the less you will see, period. Sure you can see M33 not fully dark adapted, but try that same feat with the spiral structure of M101, Barnard's Loop, or even fainter objects. Furthermore, even very bright objects like M31, M33, M42, have very faint regions to them that you will not see unless you are fully dark adapted.
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John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos
Edited by tatarjj (10/26/09 10:30 PM)
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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M101 was quite the feat from the homefront, no doubt about that..and according to CSC, I'm in the yellow zone. But sky conditions were highly favorable and this galaxy was viewed at zenith. Also, I always observe late ( after 11pm..closer to midnight) when traffic has calmed down, neighbors lights are out and the city is at rest for the night, which makes a tremendous difference in observing the night sky.
I had observed M33 last night with no problem around 2am as it was heading low towards the south. I picked it up with ease at 49x in my 8-inch as big bright fluff ball with quite a bright nucleus. I was surprised I picked it up as well as I did, but sky conditions were pretty darn good..and again, the later observing makes all the difference.
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3455
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
You can understand why I'm perplexed when folks at a star party get all wrapped around the axle if the tiniest spark of white light winks on somewhere on the field.
Have you considered the possibility that you can dark-adapt faster than average? I'm pretty sure that I *couldn't* see M33 15 seconds after leaving a brightly lit room. Five minutes, quite likely, but 15 seconds is a whole different story.
I'll give it a whirl next time I'm at a location dark enough to see M33 with reasonable ease.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 530
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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In my 55mm refractor, M33 is generally quite easy at 17x.
CS,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 975
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
In my 55mm refractor, M33 is generally quite easy at 17x.
Erik, is this from a dark location or one with light pollution? I'm curious as I want to try for M33 during the next new moon cycle with my small refractor from an urban environment.
- Jay
South Florida
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Refractor manic. 
My Sketches
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 530
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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Hi Jay,
it is from my backyard in a small village with 12.000 residents. Limiting magnitude in the zenith is generally mag 5.5 - 6.0.
Clear skies and good luck with that M33 hunt,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Waco, TX
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I am impressed. In yellow skies, without dark adaptation, sometimes I can't see M31 naked eye.
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Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Waco, TX
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I am impressed. In yellow skies, without dark adaptation, sometimes I can barely see M31 naked eye.
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Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3455
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
It is from my backyard in a small village with 12.000 residents. Limiting magnitude in the zenith is generally mag 5.5 - 6.0.
That's pretty dark. At my astronomy club's site in the Boston suburbs, I see down to about 5.7 on a typical night of good seeing. And M33 is very obvious through my 7x35 binoculars when it's reasonably high in the sky.
A couple of weeks ago in the inner suburbs, where I can usually see stars a bit fainter than 5.0 (18.4 on an SQM), I thought I saw M33 through my 12x60 binos, but wasn't sure.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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akemag
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/26/07
Posts: 541
Loc: Sweden
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Well i usually put my moonfilter in, so i dont get blinded! 
No, seriously, i can locate it most times nowadays. But i wouldnt call it easy by no standards.
In a 55mm refractor, iŽd be surprised to find it from my backyard.
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Celestron Omni XLT 120
Celestron Powerseeker 80EQ
Bresser Skylux 70mm
10" GSO DOB
5mm Ortho
6.5mm, 25mm, 32mm Plossl
3.6mm, 10mm, 25mm MA
20mm Erfle
4mm, 10mm, 12mm, 18mm RK20mm Kellner
8mm, 20mm Huygens
1.5-2x Barlow
Orange, Green, Variable Polarizing Moon filter
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 530
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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Quote:
Well i usually put my moonfilter in, so i dont get blinded!
No, seriously, i can locate it most times nowadays. But i wouldnt call it easy by no standards.
In a 55mm refractor, iŽd be surprised to find it from my backyard.
It is a low contrast object, so that is where you need to focus your efforts. High contrast scope, diagonal and eyepiece. High transparency sky, low light pollution. And a (low enough) magnification that enables contrast between M33 and sky background.
None of the above is in the miracle department. You just have to wait for or go to clear/transparent skies with little light pollution.
All of this makes it visible in small high contrast instruments with wide fields.
Good luck hunting!
Clear skies,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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galaxyman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 1471
Loc: Limerick, Pa
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Saw M-33 fairly easily naked eye a week ago Monday...of course that was atop Spruce Knob in West Virginia
The view in my new ES 6" refractor with a 11mm T1 Nagler (90x) was quite spectacular.
Karl
E.O.H.
Chesmont Astronomical Society
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" F/9 RefractorThe Beast. One great achro
ES 6" F/6.5 achro- NEW
Orion 4" f/6 Refractor. Also not bad for an achro
Celestron 10x60 binos
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So many galaxies, so little time!
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Astrojensen
sage
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 217
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Quote:
a small village with 12.000 residents
LOL! That's the first time I've heard of a city with 12,000 residents referred to as "small"! Everything is relative, I guess. The total population on the island where I live is 42,000 and I live in a village with some 3-400 residents. We have a large city with some - hold tight - 7,000 residents! Can you believe that?! 
Quote:
Limiting magnitude in the zenith is generally mag 5.5 - 6.0.
That's not bad, considering the population! The streetlights must be well designed and properly placed, as they are here. Mag 6.5 from my yard is common and I have gone to 7.11 naked eye.
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Quote:
I have gone to 7.11 naked eye.
Wow! That is pretty good! I consider hitting 5.8 Mag from my front yard in a small community of 30,000 good.
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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Astrojensen
sage
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 217
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Hi Patrick
It wasn't exactly easy. I had to work on it a lot, just as when trying to detect a faint star in a telescope and much the same techniques. It was about as difficult as going to mag 13.5 with the Zeiss Telemator.
I have several very difficult naked-eye targets that I try to observe when it is especially clear, such as M27, M33, M81, etc. Some are much more difficult than others. It also doesn't help that my glasses could be better, as my nighttime myopia is pretty strong, but I can't afford another pair of glasses.
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Hi Thomas,
Well I seem to catch the 13.1 mag star near M57 90% of the time with averted vision in the 60/1000mm refractor so maybe I should give going deeper with the naked eye another shot.
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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davidpitre
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 1824
Loc: Central Texas
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I for one am one of those people that get ticked when I've spent a 1/2 hr or more struggling with an extremely faint object and I get even a "quick" blast of white light. For that matter , I think this idea that any red light , no matter no bright, is O.K. at a star party should be questioned.
A few weeks ago I was at a star party, where someone kept shifting a very bright red desk-top light that would occasionally light-up my eyepiece. I was wrestling with some of the more difficult Palomar globulars and found the situation frustrating. Of course, I would have been frustrated even without the lights, but still...
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David
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