Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 37175
Loc: Frederick, MD
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article6887233.ece
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   SLAP Observer (TMB130SS, SV102V, SV80ED)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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richard7
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/02/07
Posts: 1542
Loc: Sacramento
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First read the post and thought "Scott in Scotland?"
Great news for those over there and let's hope that writeups like this don't ruin the whole thing with traffic.
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Richard Trost
Orion 130st, Ioptron e/r80
Meade 10x50, Konusvue 20x80, Zhumell Tachiyon 25x100
Coffee thermos and cup
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Stargazer911
member
Reged: 10/15/09
Posts: 11
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I live in the Glasgow suburbs, that park is just over an hour's drive from here 
Unfortunately I can't drive yet  I'm pretty lucky to be in Scotland though. Most of the country is as dark as that park, the biggest problem is the clouds.
This site shows what I mean:
http://avex.org.free.fr/dossiers/?page_id=127
I can't wait to get away from the central belt for a night. Clear skies,
Stargazer911
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earthbot1
super member
Reged: 08/27/09
Posts: 173
Loc: Central Virginia
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Hey Stargazer911,
You are lucky to be so close to that park!
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Nexstar 8
Meade/Celestron EPs
Bushnell 90mm Mak-Cass
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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The article seems odd. They're touting this corner of Scotland as super-dark, yet the Light Pollution Atlas shows it in the blue zone, which is much brighter than many other parts of Europe -- and mediocre by the standards of the American West.
As close as it is to Glasgow, how good can the skies be?
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
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That article seems to be full of misinformation.
For example, bortle 1 being an actually objective scale, and that B1 skies are only seen in the middle of an ocean.
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
As close as it is to Glasgow, how good can the skies be?
As about as good as you can get in the UK and actually get to it without serious hiking (e.g. Cape Wrath). The skies to the south are excellent by UK standards.
Within England there are only two really dark areas left being the Keilder Forest (which is roughly at the same latitude as Galloway Forest Park but further east) and a small region of north Devon which I have personally measured at 21.61 bmpsas - see Report of North Devon sky darkness. The north coast of Norfolk is another contender but the inland directions are getting compromised as the years go by. The UK (except the far North of Scotland0 is over popuiated by overall USA standards, as its hard to get any distance away of a town or a city without starting to get closer to another. E.g. from within a 2 hour drive radius were I live the max distance I can get from city lights is 35 miles - to get to moderate 20.8 bmpsas skies.
I think if we cut through the hype, this is only a story about the 3rd application for the Dark-Sky-Park status - its not about the darkest places on Earth. It coincides with the 4th application from Hungary's Hortobagy National Park. See Independent Newspaper report on Galloway FP and Hortobagy NP applications
The real point is this status helps preserve the dwindling dark sky areas present in over populated regions of the earth. Its sad to read that 3 locals refused to sheild lights, while the remaining residents were happy to help with the application. I just hope those 3 didn't spoil the whole show.
The only down side with this site is its cloudy far more often than it is clear, and summer months are in permanent twilight. But then again when it is dark and clear its darker than anywhere else within the 5 hours drive from my house.
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Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
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s58y
Postmaster
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 5502
Loc: Eastern NY
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Quote:
As close as it is to Glasgow, how good can the skies be?
Here's a site that claims the SQM reading at the park is between 22.0 and 23.6. :
here
I wonder if this reading was obtained on one of those frequent nights with clouds, or have they really found an exceptionally dark place?
Also Glascow and Edinburgh seem really bright, at 8.0 on the SQM scale.
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Hutech 30D, SBIG ST-402 autoguider
SV80S, TV102iis
Old camera lenses: 800mm f/5.6, 180mm f/3.4
AP900, Barndoor tracker
http://www.pbase.com/s58y
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
The only down side with this site is its cloudy far more often than it is clear ...
Yeah, I was thinking of that, too. The west coast of Scotland must be one of the cloudiest places in Europe.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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George N
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 672
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
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Quote:
Quote:
The only down side with this site is its cloudy far more often than it is clear ...
Yeah, I was thinking of that, too. The west coast of Scotland must be one of the cloudiest places in Europe.
Plus in June it never gets dark enough to observe….. 56 to 58 degrees north doesn’t leave too much ‘night’ near the solstice. I live at 42 degrees north and we only have about 3.5 hours of real darkness in June.
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George N
Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
The west coast of Scotland must be one of the cloudiest places in Europe.
The weather in Galloway isn't typical "Scottish West Coast" - its south enough to be shielded in the preveailing wind direction by Northern Ireland, Its climate is "Irish Sea" as opposed to "Atlantic" which does give it more clear nights than the wilds of north west Scotland
I'm dubious about the possible upper limit 23.6 bmpsas. That may be possible on dark spring nights just after heavy rain has cleared the air and you point the SQM slightly over the Irish Sea. 22.0 on the otherhand is very very likely.
I will point out that there already is establighed amateur astronomy facilities in Galloway - this isn't a new thing
http://www.gallowayastro.com/
The Forrestry Commission has also opened (in colaboration with local clubs) observatories in Keilder Forest and Dalby Forest I(Scarborough) - they are out to do more than just grow trees for lumber these days.
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Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
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JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 234
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
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Quote:
The International Dark-Sky Association will deliver its verdict on November 16 or 17. Until then, the world’s only dark-sky parks remain Natural Bridges, Utah, and Cherry Springs State Park, Pennsylvania.
A little bit USA favoring isn't it? Feel free to check out the two trillion dark sky sites of Northern Finland 
/Jake
Quote:
The article seems odd. They're touting this corner of Scotland as super-dark, yet the Light Pollution Atlas shows it in the blue zone, which is much brighter than many other parts of Europe -- and mediocre by the standards of the American West.
I wouldn't take the LPA too seriously. According to it, I observe from the "green zone" but if the limiting magnitude is below 7 in my site, I won't even go outside...
I suspect they get results like that with snow covered ground/high humidity or something. The light pollution (at least on Finland's part) isn't nearly as bad as the atlas shows it to be.
/Jake
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
I'm dubious about the possible upper limit 23.6 bmpsas. That may be possible on dark spring nights just after heavy rain has cleared the air and you point the SQM slightly over the Irish Sea.
No way! SQM readings over 23 happen only because part of the sky is obstructed -- by clouds, trees, buildings, whatever. In fact, I don't think I've heard of a properly obtained SQM reading darker than 22.0.
The natural night sky is *way* bright!
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
I don't think I've heard of a properly obtained SQM reading darker than 22.0.
Good to hear - i was guessing as to how they could possibly had got that figure! The best reading I've ever measured at a proper dark site is 21.61. Its a real pity I didn't take an SQM out on the Pacific Ocean this summer - I had the chance. It would be really instructive to know what reading you could get that far from any light pollution
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Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
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Thomas44
super member
Reged: 10/26/09
Posts: 101
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Wow. That's a bonus for the people of Scotland. Too bad I'm no where near the place.
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www.laserpointers.co.uk
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Mogster
sage
Reged: 03/14/04
Posts: 337
Loc: Manchester, England
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As others have said this is really about protecting one of the few less light polluted areas left south of the extreme North Scottish Highlands. Its great that someone has taken this initiative.
Unfortunately this is being over egged in the UK media. they seem to be pitching this corner of South West Scotland quite near Glasgow and Carlisle one of the darkest paces on the planet. Its one of the best places South of Glasgow in the UK, that's all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8361244.stm
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Andy Taylor
twistin' by the pool
Reged: 09/24/08
Posts: 437
Loc: t=0 UK
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Quote:
As others have said this is really about protecting one of the few less light polluted areas left south of the extreme North Scottish Highlands. Its great that someone has taken this initiative.
Unfortunately this is being over egged in the UK media. they seem to be pitching this corner of South West Scotland quite near Glasgow and Carlisle one of the darkest paces on the planet. Its one of the best places South of Glasgow in the UK, that's all.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8361244.stm
A good dark site further south would be good...
I was up in the highlands north of Glasgow for work about three weeks ago. The weather was the worst I've ever experienced. Apparently, according to my driver - it had been raining like that for two months...
One evening when he drove me back from location it actually cleared. I could see no lights anywhere. I made him stop alongside Loch Lomond and the sky was awesome.
It's just too far north. Most of the interesting stuff is just too low in the sky.
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Equipment list of shame:
A strange heap of assorted junk that when thrown together and dragged out into the dark shows me the wonders of the universe...
And then dews up...
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Tonk
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 4353
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Quote:
In fact, I don't think I've heard of a properly obtained SQM reading darker than 22.0.
On another thread in this forum the Nambian Desert is quoted as measuring 21.90 using 3 different SQMs to get agreement. So 21.90 to 22.00 might be taken as a realistic upper limit. Given that the darkest site I've measured in southern England (North Devon) reads at 21.61 (April midnight - no milkyway) means that there are respectable dark sites still left well south of Glasgow. I hope to get over to Galloway soon to make a comparitive measurment
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Televue 85, GM-8/Gemini, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB)
Coronado SM60/BF10, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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