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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 2488
Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
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Quote:
50D looks like the new Canon winner.
I would agree,except for the fact that both the 40 and 50D have major horizontal banding issues when used in climates above >~20-25degC...the XSi however has,no banding,great resolution(pixel size is 5.5um compared to the 4.7of the 15mp APS-C 50D..not much of an improvement when dealing with longer F/L's...),has VERY low noise values even in warmer climates..It has been a proven cam over and over..
Sorry,but IMHO..the XSi remains king of the Canon line..but the T1i is showing great promise as it does not seem to be plagued by the banding issues of the 50D..
The 50D is a waste of money IMHO.UNLESS,you are using it for dual purpose..THEN it is WELL worth every penny..
But for an Astro DSLR,there is no need for "all the bells and whistles" of some of the models..
50D is a brilliant camera no doubt about it..but this is speaking in a general "over-all" fashion..
Just look for the right sensor to fit your optics,then see if the electronics will back up the sensor and actually work for it,and not against it,and you will never go wrong.
This will probably get me banned from this forum...but,it is just my  's...
CS!
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Brent Oliver
WO-66SD*WO-Megrez102ED-Special Edition
CGE Pier-Mounted
Artemis285*OrionSSII-Mono
AstronomikLRGBHOS*AtikMFW
HyperCams&MODS
My Gallery
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 7833
Loc: Lexington, SC
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Quote:
...the XSi however has,no banding,great resolution(pixel size is 5.5um compared to the 4.7of the 15mp APS-C 50D..not much of an improvement when dealing with longer F/L's...),has VERY low noise values even in warmer climates..It has been a proven cam over and over..
Sorry,but IMHO..the XSi remains king of the Canon line...
CS!
I already have an XSi. Mine has banding. This is why I was looking at the 50D.
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Jerry
Celestron C-11
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jmX
super member
Reged: 04/23/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Orange County, CA
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I know this is an old thread, but its been revived so I'll contribute.
I've been using a 50d quite successfully (for a newb at least). I havent found much banding that didnt process out pretty easily, and I'm working at 60-80degrees F exclusively.
Also, I seem to get quite a decent amount of Ha response for it being totally unmodified. Not sure if the 50D lets more Ha through, or if I'm just processing it differently than others.
Either way, pics on my website below.
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Jon
C6N + CG5
Skywatcher Equinox 80 + CGEM
http://jmx.ls1howto.com
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robjohn
super member
Reged: 06/04/08
Posts: 125
Loc: West Hills, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
...the XSi however has,no banding,great resolution(pixel size is 5.5um compared to the 4.7of the 15mp APS-C 50D..not much of an improvement when dealing with longer F/L's...),has VERY low noise values even in warmer climates..It has been a proven cam over and over..
Sorry,but IMHO..the XSi remains king of the Canon line...
CS!
I already have an XSi. Mine has banding. This is why I was looking at the 50D.
I've never seen banding in my 50D. Perhaps banding is a problem of an individual camera, perhaps a problem with a certain production run. As far as I know, the 500D (T1i) uses the same sensor and Digic IV as in the 50D, so if one had a design flaw, I would expect to see that same flaw in the other. My uncle has a 500D (T1i) and it shows no banding either.
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Rob Johnson
Celestron 14" SCT | 8" SCT | 102mm f/5 | Ultima 8x56
Takahashi FSQ-106EDX f/5
ZenithStar 105mm f/7 | 80mm f/6
Vixen ARK 16x80
CGE | CG-5
Canon 50DH
Starfish autoguider
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jmX
super member
Reged: 04/23/09
Posts: 162
Loc: Orange County, CA
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Quote:
I've never seen banding in my 50D. Perhaps banding is a problem of an individual camera, perhaps a problem with a certain production run. As far as I know, the 500D (T1i) uses the same sensor and Digic IV as in the 50D, so if one had a design flaw, I would expect to see that same flaw in the other. My uncle has a 500D (T1i) and it shows no banding either.
50D's have banding. You just have to process the photo fairly extremely to get it to show up. It's not something many people would notice.
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Jon
C6N + CG5
Skywatcher Equinox 80 + CGEM
http://jmx.ls1howto.com
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JSeay86
super member
Reged: 04/26/09
Posts: 131
Loc: Norman, OK
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I think I will be getting the 50D around Christmas time as well. You have some outstanding photos on your site jmX. Well done.
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Jared
Orion XX12 Dob
Ten Acre Observatory
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Daniel Browning
super member
Reged: 08/11/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
If price is not the issue, I think I'd go with the 50D.
Agreed.
Quote:
They seem to be touting about 1 stop more sensitivity, and there's the improved microlenses for higher efficiency.
Canon's marketing claims about the 50D are mostly just JPEG noise reduction nonsense. The improved microlenses only increased QE in the green channel by 5% (0.1 photoelectrons per 12-bit ADU per square micron in sunlight vs 0.095 on the 40D).
Quote:
For AP, typically you want larger (fewer) pixels. However, the 50D has less *space* between the pixels, which is a more compelling argument.
You only want larger (fewer) pixels if they are actually better. That has never (yet) been the case when it comes to Canon DSLRs. The newer small pixel cameras are always either the same (as in the case of the 40D -> 50D) or dramatically better (50D -> 7D).
Quote:
I wait the new 5D mkII. The specification seems interesting, also for astrophotos. The max ISO rate is 25600, little bit more than 300D and ISO 3200.
The max ISO has little to do with actual performance of the camera. It's a marketing tool (gimmick) that's only very slightly correlated with reality. For example, the max ISO on the 1Ds3 is 3200, compared to over 100,000 on the new cameras. They are better, but nowhere near *that* much better.
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--Daniel
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Daniel Browning
super member
Reged: 08/11/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
In general, the larger the pixel, the better the per-pixel signal-to-noise ratio is.
Agreed. Excellent post, Rob.
Quote:
Of course, the Digic IV chip in the 50D adds some improvements over the Digic III in the 40D and the Digic II in the 30D.
FWIW, the DIGIC improvements only benefit JPEGs, not raw.
Quote:
For producing the same image, the 50D has 25.0% better signal-to-noise ratio than the 40D and 33.0% better signal-to-noise ratio than the 30D.
I think Roger Clark's 8.2% read noise improvement is more characteristic of the SNR improvement you'll see in astrophotography. That's because his "SNR" is what most people call "dynamic range". The 25% number only causes the SNR to be 25% higher in the very brightest tone in the image (i.e. stars just below clipping). As you examine darker and darker parts of the image, the SNR improvement drops lower and lower until you get to the 8.2% in the tones not dominated by photon shot noise (where most of astrophotography takes place)., in read-noise-dominated image tones. Of course, that's not counting the 5% improvement in QE (which will vary by wavelength).
Personally, I would characterize the 8.2% improvement in read noise and 5% improvement in QE as relatively minor.
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--Daniel
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Daniel Browning
super member
Reged: 08/11/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
both the 40 and 50D have major horizontal banding issues when used in climates above >~20-25degC...
Actually, the variable pattern noise is present at all temperatures and sub lengths.
Quote:
...the XSi, however, has no banding...
Well, it has much less, but there still is some. Canon is funny that way. Their cheapest cameras (500D) have little banding. Then the mid range (50D) and high-mid (5D2) have lots of banding, then their very top range has little again (1Ds3, 1D3). Fortunately that seems to have changed with the 7D: pattern noise at ISO 800+ is almost completely eradicated. (Although there has been a higher-than-average number of units with gain imbalance between the two green channels that can manifest as pattern noise.)
As for how much of a problem variable pattern noise is, it depends on your post processing. Many users find that it disappears with a sufficient number of subs and the right algorithm.
Quote:
This will probably get me banned from this forum...but,it is just my 's...
Get the pitchforks, guys! Let's run him out on a rail.  I enjoyed your post, thank you for sharing.
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--Daniel
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xatamec
member
Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Catalonia, Spain
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Here you have 2 shots taken with the a cooled 50D from Central DS:
http://fotografiaastronomica.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6631
http://fotografiaastronomica.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6604
These shots are very promising taking into account that were taken with a Canon 200mm lens closed to f7.1.
However, I don't like so many pixels for astrophotography. I haven't seen yet a camera so sensible for astrofotography like the 350D/Xt, not even the 5D MkII, I'm serious.
Sergi
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My telescopes: WO Megrez 88FD APO and SW 200/1000
My mount: SW EQ6
My cameras: Cooled Canon 350D, QHY5
...and very little time to play with these toys!
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Jerry Lodriguss
Vendor
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 540
Loc: Voorhees, NJ
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Quote:
Here you have 2 shots taken with the a cooled 50D from Central DS:
http://fotografiaastronomica.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6631
http://fotografiaastronomica.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6604
These shots are very promising taking into account that were taken with a Canon 200mm lens closed to f7.1.
However, I don't like so many pixels for astrophotography. I haven't seen yet a camera so sensible for astrofotography like the 350D/Xt, not even the 5D MkII, I'm serious.
Sergi
Hi Sergi,
Any other technical details on the shot of M45?
Such as where it was taken from, exposure, ISO, total number of sub-frames?
I read the thread for M45, but didn't see this info, or that it was shot at f/7.1
Jerry
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A Beginner's Guide to DSLR Astrophotography
http://www.astropix.com
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s58y
Postmaster
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 5494
Loc: Eastern NY
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Quote:
Here you have 2 shots taken with the a cooled 50D from Central DS:
You certainly captured a lot of faint signal on the M45 shot, with just 80 minutes total exposure at f/7.1. I suppose the cooling helped a lot?
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Hutech 30D, SBIG ST-402 autoguider
SV80S, TV102iis
Old camera lenses: 800mm f/5.6, 180mm f/3.4
AP900, Barndoor tracker
http://www.pbase.com/s58y
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xatamec
member
Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Catalonia, Spain
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Hi Jerry,
According to the author of the shot, it is the result of stacking 4 20-minute exposures @ ISO 800. And the lens was also closed to f7.1.
Sergi
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My telescopes: WO Megrez 88FD APO and SW 200/1000
My mount: SW EQ6
My cameras: Cooled Canon 350D, QHY5
...and very little time to play with these toys!
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ratdog11
sage
Reged: 04/26/08
Posts: 200
Loc: surprise arizona
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Can You please translate all the language from the links please? 
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Greg
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FSQ106/STL11K/EM200
TV127is/CGE/QHY8
CPC1100/HyperStar 3/Canon40D
Whole bunch of other stuff
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dgpilot
member
Reged: 09/25/09
Posts: 96
Loc: San Ramon, California
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I guess I'll chime in as well. I have both the 350D and the 50D. The 50D is a major leap up, I've been using it for almost a year now.
Here is a recent i took. 8 minutes exposure in heavy light pollution (red zone)
M42 with 50D
Now.. the only advantage my 350D has over the 50D is that it's much lighter and smaller than the 50D body. But I'd rather have an unbalanced scope with a 50D than a balanced scope with a 350D.. IMHO
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LXD75 8" SN f/4
Canon 50D, 350D (unmodded)
Autoguiding:
Orion ST80 Guidescope
Meade DSI II Pro
San Ramon, California: 
My Astro Gallery - Revamped!
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Jerry Lodriguss
Vendor
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 540
Loc: Voorhees, NJ
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Hi Sergi,
Thanks for the info... he must be at an extremely dark-sky observing site...
Jerry
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A Beginner's Guide to DSLR Astrophotography
http://www.astropix.com
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xatamec
member
Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Catalonia, Spain
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Quote:
Quote:
Here you have 2 shots taken with the a cooled 50D from Central DS:
You certainly captured a lot of faint signal on the M45 shot, with just 80 minutes total exposure at f/7.1. I suppose the cooling helped a lot?
It was not me who made this shot, it was one of my colleagues. Yes, I suppose the cooling helped a lot to differenciate the faint signal from the thermal noise.
Quote:
Can You please translate all the language from the links please?
You can use the google translator the source language is spanish.
Quote:
Now.. the only advantage my 350D has over the 50D is that it's much lighter and smaller than the 50D body. But I'd rather have an unbalanced scope with a 50D than a balanced scope with a 350D.. IMHO
The 50D is a great camera with a lot of advantages over the 350D. Live view is a very nice feature for focusing and target centering. The bigger dynamic range (14-bit) is also a major advantage, mainly to keep the stars unsaturated at high ISOs or long exposure times. Also, the electroluminiscence problem of the 350D is a major concern for me. If you were giving me a 50D or a 350D obviosly I would pick the 50D. But, in terms of sensibility per pixel, the 350D is better than the 50D or other new generation DSLRs. And this means that the SNR is better with the 350 with the same exposure times and focal ratios.
Quote:
Thanks for the info... he must be at an extremely dark-sky observing site...
Yes Jerry, he made the shot at the best observing site in the north-east of Spain, a place called Ąger. There are professional observatories there.
Sergi
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My telescopes: WO Megrez 88FD APO and SW 200/1000
My mount: SW EQ6
My cameras: Cooled Canon 350D, QHY5
...and very little time to play with these toys!
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