Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Tim A.
sage
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 247
Loc: 40 30'N 105 3'W
|
|
Quote:
If you have seen the notch at all, then you have essentially seen the Horsehead. However, in a six inch, you may not see much of the "snout" unless conditions are exceptional.
Um ... not to be picky (especially with the subject at hand if you get my drift  ), but horses don't have snouts. Pigs have snouts. Horses have a muzzle. At least that's the way we called it when I was growing up in Montana.
We now return you to your regular thread. 
-- Tim
Colorado
--------------------
F/5 12.5" Dob (Starbucket)
Celestron CPC800
Celestron CR-150 HD on CG5-GT
Galileoscope
Oberwerk Deluxe II 20x80 & Ultra 10x50
Celestron Regal LX 8x42 (gone AWOL)
Bio-binoculars 1x6
"Me? Crazy? Oh, yeah. Crazy like an ox!"
|
David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8289
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
If you have seen the notch at all, then you have essentially seen the Horsehead. However, in a six inch, you may not see much of the "snout" unless conditions are exceptional.
Um ... not to be picky (especially with the subject at hand if you get my drift ), but horses don't have snouts. Pigs have snouts. Horses have a muzzle. At least that's the way we called it when I was growing up in Montana.
We now return you to your regular thread.
-- Tim
Colorado
While some might object, it is acceptable for someone to refer to the projection of the Horsehead nebula as the "snout". Technically, the muzzle of a real horse is not the entire projection (as the projection is part of the entire head), but mainly refers to the very front end of the head at the nostrils on down to the chin. My sister (a vet-tech and long-time horse owner) uses the muzzle for only the lower nose and parts of tissue to the lower front of the lower jaw rather than for the entire projection. The top back end (highest part) of the head is the "poll", and bottom of the head where it meets the neck is the "throat latch". The entire projection of the nebula would have to contain at least three separate names to cover it properly (not to mention the nebula's back crest and thick neck). However, the Horsehead looks more like a stylized version of a horse's head than a real one. In fact, the nebula looks more like a standard Knight chess piece than a real horse. Clear skies to you.
--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
|
wfj
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 260
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
|
|
Have always heard of it referred to as a "snout" with the Horsehead. And it does look more like a chess piece than ever a real horse (or a sea horse).
Google " chess piece snout":
"whereby toggle nut 65 appears somewhat like the snout of a horse."
"the second missing it's entire snout, and the third.."
Lots of references to chess pieces.
So not an anatomical reference but a game reference.
Vaguely remember something from chess also about this from the dim dark past.
|
RolandosCY
member
Reged: 01/02/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus
|
|
The HorseHead is certainly not as challenging as was thought to be until the end of the 1990s.
From the Mediterranean island of Cyprus we have had 4 sightings in the last year (the most recent on Friday October 16), two of which were not at all difficult. In all cases we detected the Horsehead without any filters, and then we used a Lumicon UHC to gain slightly increased contrast.
What we really noted about the Horsehead visibility was that it depends primarily on the TRANSPARENCY of the atmosphere than on any other factor. We have often failed with 12 inches from our regular dark site (altitude 1800ft, ZLM 7+ for stars) yet our best sighting came unexpectedly on the evening of January 1st 2009, from a sea-side site located only 10 miles southeast of an 80,000 people city and only 6 miles away from the island's primary international airport (with all its associated lighting), with a star ZLM of 5.5! The major difference was an exceptionally clear atmosphere after a major cold front swept through.
With 10 or 12 inches and no filter it is extremely hard to actually detect anything more than just a "notch" in the faint nebulosity of IC434. With an 11mm Nagler at 136x and 12 inches of aperture you can detect that the notch is VERY SLIGHTLY brighter than the sky background, but much dimmer than IC434 itself. I have yet to be able to detect details like the "snout" or the "mane". Detecting these details is amongst my targets for this winter! Also, I will try to detect the Horsehead with as small an aperture as possible.
By the way, I have just obtained a Lumicon H-Beta filter myself, but the usual "astronomer's curse" (becoming cloudy whenever you get something new!) has arrived with it, so I was unable to try it as of this time. Once I try the H-beta I will let you know...
--------------------
The Darker the Better!
=======================
SkyWatcher FlexTube 305 Dob
Orion Optics GPDX250 f4.8 Newt
Takahashi FS102 Refractor
SkyWatcher ED80 Pro
Konus 4.5" Newt
Parks 60mm f11 Refractor
Vixen GP-DX mount
Takahashi EM10 Mount
Televue Ethos 13mm
Televue Nagler 31mm, 11mm, 7mm
Televue Panoptic 27mm, 19mm
Televue 2X Barlows
Lumicon UHC and H-beta filters
Takahashi "Astronomer" 22x60 binos
|
nyc_nurse
sage
Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
|
|
Jav! That's why you have to go the that mag ~6.2 location with that sucker. 
--------------------
Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com
Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder  )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14
|
Solar Ken
sage
Reged: 02/07/06
Posts: 295
Loc: Oregon
|
|
Quote:
I can see it easily with my 12" using a H-beta filter under my mag 5.0 skies.
How do I determine the limiting magnitude of my sky?
Thanks.
--------------------
Daytime:
Coronado PST Ha
Lunt LS60THa/B600C
Nighttime:
Meade LX90 SCT 8"
Orion XX12 Intelliscope Dob 12"
|
Javier
sage
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 434
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
maybe someday Sam, I'm looking for a small shack somewhere in PA or the Catskills. Someday.....
|
JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 237
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
|
|
Quote:
How do I determine the limiting magnitude of my sky?
Try this: http://obs.nineplanets.org/lm/rjm.html
/Jake
|
Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10516
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
|
|
Quote:
What we really noted about the Horsehead visibility was that it depends primarily on the TRANSPARENCY of the atmosphere than on any other factor.
That has been my experience too.
Dave Mitsky
--------------------
Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
|
David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8289
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
|
|
Quote:
Jav! That's why you have to go the that mag ~6.2 location with that sucker.
Well, I have done it from my front driveway (ZLM 5.5 to 5.8) in my 9.25 inch SCT using the H-Beta filter on a good clear night. You have to use some sort of light shield to keep your dark adaptation, but I have seen at least the "notch" appearance quite a number of times using the filter (no sign of it without filtration). Clear skies to you.
--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
|
Feidb
super member
Reged: 10/09/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Nevada
|
|
I've seen it through a 10" Coulter (among several larger scopes) at Lake Murray in Oklahoma. Don't remember if he had a filter in it or not. First time I saw it was with my home-built 16", an H-Beta and an 18mm Bertele. The second time was with a Q-70 26mm and a 2" H-beta filter. B33 is a challenge no matter where you are. You need dark and transparent skies. It is one of those special nights we like to call a "Horsehead" night. I may be repeating some others, but just wanted to pitch in. For a long time it was the holy grail of objects. Now that I've seen it a few times, I still haven't made up my mind which is the next holy grail! However, whether it's worth the bucks is how bad you want to see it visually. The president of our club has a Mallincam and he shows it routinely, even on crummy nights. However, being a strictly visual observer, there is nothing like the rush of seeing it in the eyepiece. I think the filter was worth it, in this case.
--------------------
Present gear:
16" Meade LightBridge
Meade 50mm straight through-finder
Lumicon green laser pointer
Orion Q-70 26mm, 32mm, and 38mm
Parks 2X 2" Barlow
Hyperion 17mm, 8mm
1 1/4" 18mm Russell Optics Bertele
1 1/4" 12.5mm and 6mm Coulter Optical Orthoscopics
1 1/4" X 2" 32mm Edmund Scientific war surplus Erfle
Tirion star atlas (white stars, black background) hand-laminated
Megastar
And a partridge in a pear tree
To nudge or not to nudge, that is the question
|
RolandosCY
member
Reged: 01/02/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
What we really noted about the Horsehead visibility was that it depends primarily on the TRANSPARENCY of the atmosphere than on any other factor.
That has been my experience too.
Dave Mitsky
One way of determining if the night is really worth trying for the Horsehead (or similar difficulty targets) is to check the visibility of M33 with the naked eye. If you can even glimpse it with averted vision, then it is a "horsehead" night. Another personal empirical rule of thump I developed has to do with the naked eye appearance of M35 in Gemini. In really transparent nights it is not only visible, but you can detect what appears like faint stars appearing on and off on it. I am 100% certain they are stars that are momentarily resolved but I cannot hold them long enough to "pinpoint" them. I have seen this effect on all times I managed to see the Horsehead...
--------------------
The Darker the Better!
=======================
SkyWatcher FlexTube 305 Dob
Orion Optics GPDX250 f4.8 Newt
Takahashi FS102 Refractor
SkyWatcher ED80 Pro
Konus 4.5" Newt
Parks 60mm f11 Refractor
Vixen GP-DX mount
Takahashi EM10 Mount
Televue Ethos 13mm
Televue Nagler 31mm, 11mm, 7mm
Televue Panoptic 27mm, 19mm
Televue 2X Barlows
Lumicon UHC and H-beta filters
Takahashi "Astronomer" 22x60 binos
|
RolandosCY
member
Reged: 01/02/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus
|
|
Quote:
By the way, I have just obtained a Lumicon H-Beta filter myself, but the usual "astronomer's curse" (becoming cloudy whenever you get something new!) has arrived with it, so I was unable to try it as of this time. Once I try the H-beta I will let you know...
On Tuesday night we have had a small opening in the clouds and we did go to a high altitude site (Papoutsa, 5090ft). Unfortunately, continuous lightning flashes from strong thunderstorms about 15 miles away did not allow our eyes to really adapt. Still, I did manage to have a view of IC434 with and without H-beta. The filter did indeed increase the contrast of IC434 with the sky background (to be honest with the prevailing conditions I could not reall detect IC434 without a filter even with my 12-inch dob). But I can definitely attest that the H-beta did produce a significant increase in the visibility of the particular nebula. On the bottom line, the filter is quite aggressive on the stars (which turn a weird bluish color!).
--------------------
The Darker the Better!
=======================
SkyWatcher FlexTube 305 Dob
Orion Optics GPDX250 f4.8 Newt
Takahashi FS102 Refractor
SkyWatcher ED80 Pro
Konus 4.5" Newt
Parks 60mm f11 Refractor
Vixen GP-DX mount
Takahashi EM10 Mount
Televue Ethos 13mm
Televue Nagler 31mm, 11mm, 7mm
Televue Panoptic 27mm, 19mm
Televue 2X Barlows
Lumicon UHC and H-beta filters
Takahashi "Astronomer" 22x60 binos
|
Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 695
Loc: Orlando, FL.
|
|
Quote:
One way of determining if the night is really worth trying for the Horsehead (or similar difficulty targets) is to check the visibility of M33 with the naked eye. If you can even glimpse it with averted vision, then it is a "horsehead night"
We had one of those nights at Chiefland Astronomy Village last new moon. M-33 was EASILY visible, naked eye.
In my 28", the Horsehead was remarkably detailed even withOUT an Hb filter (which I normally use).
But, the most interesting observation was being able to clearly see IC-434 in 8X32 Nikon binoculars!
Mike Harvey
|
|
1 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Olivier Biot
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 998
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
