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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Which 6" 1200mm Refractor?
      #3420939 - 10/30/09 09:20 PM

I am thinking about getting a long focal length (1200mm) 6" achromat refractor to play with, OTA only. The choices seem to be the Meade AR-6, Celestron C6, Zhumell Kepler (made by Jinghua), Astrozap 152mm f/8 Refractor, Skywatcher BK15075HEG5 (catchy name!), and the 152mm 1200mm/150mm 1200 refractors made by "Hi-Optic", which I assume are some that I have already listed under the sellers names. In fact I wonder if all of these are made by one company. Have I missed any? It would be nice to get a somewhat better focuser than the common R&P but at my price point beggars can't be choosers. Any suggestions/experiences? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Tom Duncan

Edited by oddog (10/30/09 09:23 PM)


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 25882
Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3420945 - 10/30/09 09:25 PM

There are at least two manufacturers represented by your list above. Jinghua made the Meade and Synta made the Celestron/Skywatcher. Dunno about the others. Moonlight offers a very nice bolt-on focuser upgrade for any of them.

--------------------
John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
Meade 80mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Meade 152ED, 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 12" SCT
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
NJP, LXD700, CGE, GPDX/SS2KPC
ST-10XME, DSI Pro


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Doug76
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 6437
Loc: Refractor Heaven (Haven?)
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #3421027 - 10/30/09 10:14 PM

I'll recommend one, if you can find it, the C6R. If you can't find one, the the Skywatcher, as it is the same scope in fancier dress.
I own the C6R, and wouldn't part with it short of getting a D&G. And I did get the Moonlite focuser for it.

--------------------
Doug
Truckstop Astronomer


American by birth, Southern by the grace of God, future Texan by the will of God (I think )

Celestron C6R
Astro-Tech AT90EDT
Carton 60mm f/16.7
Carton 60mm f/20
Faworski/Carton 100mm f/13
Celestron 50mm f/12.5
Faworski 60mm f/6.7


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letimotif
No Complaints
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Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 2446
Loc: No Idea, but I know my speed!
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: Doug76]
      #3421157 - 10/30/09 11:36 PM

Hey OD,

The real question, I guess, is how you plan to mount your OTA. The Synta 150mm version a quite a bit lighter than the Jinghua. So, to get the same performance in terms of stability, you might want a mount that's a bit sturdier for the latter.

Optically, I don't really think you'd see much difference.

If you haven't played with one of these before, or a long focal length refractor in general, using an unmodified GEM, for example, can be a chore. The tubes are so long that pointing at zenith you end up with your rear on the, nowadays, briskly chilling ground.

For my C6R (bought used) I put it on a CG5-GT with an Orion Skyview Pro mount extension. Worked well. The extension let me keep the tripod legs collapsed so that the vibration issue was not a big deal.

I know folks love their Moonlights, but I could never justify the expense. Although it didn't cure a--minor--bit of image shift from the standard R&P focuser at 300X, I added one of Orion's electronic accu-focusers. For $60 or so it provided vibration-free focusing and let me tune the image nicely.

Let us know what you decide.

--------------------
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?


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TomN
professor emeritus
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Reged: 01/14/09
Posts: 512
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: letimotif]
      #3421185 - 10/30/09 11:53 PM

I really love my CR150 (basically the C6R) and I too have upgraded with the Moonlite focuser. It gives the scope a very nice quality feel. A worthwhile upgrade in my humble opinion. But I did already have a G11 to mount it on. It's a big telescope. Tom

--------------------
Amateur Astronomer since 1962.


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DLB242
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 864
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3421212 - 10/31/09 12:10 AM

Quote:

I am thinking about getting a long focal length (1200mm) 6" achromat refractor to play with, OTA only. The choices seem to be the Meade AR-6, Celestron C6, Zhumell Kepler (made by Jinghua), Astrozap 152mm f/8 Refractor, Skywatcher BK15075HEG5 (catchy name!), and the 152mm 1200mm/150mm 1200 refractors made by "Hi-Optic", which I assume are some that I have already listed under the sellers names. In fact I wonder if all of these are made by one company. Have I missed any? It would be nice to get a somewhat better focuser than the common R&P but at my price point beggars can't be choosers. Any suggestions/experiences? Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Tom Duncan




Looks like all are Jinghua except the Celestron C6R and Sky-Watcher. MoonLite makes mounting flanges for their 2" CF focusers for these scopes

http://www.focuser.com/cgi-bin/dman.cgi?page=productdetail&plugin=dstore.cgi&product=CF

You can also get adaptors for the Antares/GSO single speed and two speed Crayford focusers for both scopes. Agena Astro put together this chart to help ordering the correct one.

https://www.agenaastro.com/Articles.asp?ID=205

I replaced the Antares/GSO two speed on my Antares 1529 and highly recommend the MoonLite.

--------------------
David B



10" f/5 DOB
Celestron C8
6" f/8 DOB
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion 130ST f/5 Reflector 2" GSO Crayford
Stellarvue SV115EDT
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ST80
Stellarvue SV70ED
Stellarvue SV50 Little Rascal


Edited by DLB242 (10/31/09 12:14 AM)


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stevew
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: Vancouver
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3421224 - 10/31/09 12:18 AM

Quote:

I am thinking about getting a long focal length (1200mm) 6" achromat refractor to play with,



A 6 inch F-8 [1200mm] is not a long focal length refractor by the way.

--------------------
So long, and thanks for all the fish....


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DLB242
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 864
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: stevew]
      #3421281 - 10/31/09 01:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I am thinking about getting a long focal length (1200mm) 6" achromat refractor to play with,



A 6 inch F-8 [1200mm] is not a long focal length refractor by the way.




It's longer than our Antares 6" f/6.5 is but doesn't offer any advantage for the added length in the way of color correction.

--------------------
David B



10" f/5 DOB
Celestron C8
6" f/8 DOB
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion 130ST f/5 Reflector 2" GSO Crayford
Stellarvue SV115EDT
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ST80
Stellarvue SV70ED
Stellarvue SV50 Little Rascal


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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: DLB242]
      #3421364 - 10/31/09 03:08 AM

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Sounds like I really can't go wrong with any of them so I suppose its just a matter of which I stumble upon first. And I would think it's reasonable to think you users value your views through them as otherwise you wouldn't have been inclined to put a focuser on the tube that costs almost as much as the tube itself. I should have mentioned I have a one year old Celestron CG-5 mount with the good tubular stainless steel legs. I will look into the extension, that's a good idea. Tom

Edited by oddog (10/31/09 03:09 AM)


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BrianFitz
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/17/08
Posts: 1803
Loc: Northern California
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3421383 - 10/31/09 03:51 AM

I just purchased a Meade 152ED f/9 and so far it performance is awesome. Another one came up on Astomart yesterday. Folks in a money pinch seem to getting rid of their "lifetime refractors" because they just don't use them very much. Also the older Jaegers are great..

--------------------
Fitz



Meade LX200R 10" F/10
Meade 152ED APO
Stellarvue Raptor 80ED
Celestron CGE
Various EP's / Televue diagonals

QHY8 / QHY5 / Philips SPC 900 / Canon Xsi
20X80 Celestron / 7X50 Meade Binos

“Lots of "Dreams”

“The Skillful Illusionist Makes the Best Image" ~ Tony Hallas




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starrancher
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Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 1304
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: BrianFitz]
      #3421715 - 10/31/09 11:41 AM

Maybe you would consider a 5 inch like the Meade AR5 or the 120mm offerings (4.7inch) of Orion , Celestron , Skywatcher . These are probably half the weight of the 6 inchers & much easier on the mounts that they are normally sold with . I don't have first hand experience with the others but the Synta 6 inch refractors are severely front heavy requiring the OTA to be placed very far back in the tube rings to get balance unless you add more weight to the tail of the scope . (More weight) .

And now you really are on the ground when viewing at zenith .

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


Edited by starrancher (10/31/09 11:43 AM)


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alfi1966
super member


Reged: 08/24/09
Posts: 152
Loc: norway
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: starrancher]
      #3421826 - 10/31/09 12:42 PM

hi
i have the skywatcher 150mm f/8, and love it.
i upgraded to a moonlite focuser, and that really is a good investment.
my tuberings are placed ca. midway on the tube, and balances nicely, when the diagonal and eyepieces are in place, its frontheavy, but not so much as being a problem.

alfi

--------------------
skywatcher 200mm f/5 newt, 150mm f/8.3 refractor w/ moonlite upgrade, Skywatcher EVOSTAR ED80 Pro DS,Meade Series 5000 80mm Triplet, eq6 pro synscan, eq5, canon 450d unmodded, canon 1000d modded, TS duomount and LVI Smartguider.


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phxbird
super member


Reged: 12/24/07
Posts: 193
Loc: New Mexico, USA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: alfi1966]
      #3421916 - 10/31/09 01:37 PM

I really like the Celestron 6" with a GSO focuser. I used an Orion 120ED stock focuser for several months until I got the GSO. Since I have a SBIG ST-7E mounted on it the GSO just works better.

--------------------
"Big Gun" Celestron 6" Refractor
"The Bargain Bucket" 8" Dob
"X-Factor" Meade ETX 90 EC
"Short Round" Orion ST 80mm
"Dimestore" 60 mm Meade
Celestron AS-GT Mount
Skyview Pro
SAC-7b Imager
SBIG ST-7E Imager
Temple Research Observatory
AAVSO Member
Society of Astronomical Sciences Member


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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: phxbird]
      #3422109 - 10/31/09 03:51 PM

In regards the Meade offerings, I see there is an LX55 version and an LX75 version. I initially thought the designations were just a reference to the mount they were offered with, but it was suggested the LX75 version has a collimatable cell whereas the LX55 does not. True/untrue? Does anyone know which of my choices has a collimatable cell and which does not?

Also, am I getting the Meade designation wrong, are all the tubes referred to as "AR6"? I'm confused....

Thanks for the suggestion of a 5", but I feel if I am going to go big I should, well, go big (at least insofar as what my budget will allow).

Tom Duncan

Edited by oddog (10/31/09 03:55 PM)


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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2522
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3422132 - 10/31/09 04:08 PM

Tom,

Stick to your guns if you're going with an achro. More aperture is usually good - and most of us only downsize due to budget and/or physical constraints. If I could afford a 6 inch Apo, I would own one, but I'm limited to a 5 incher right now.

The 6 inch Skywatcher would be my choice (I like the metallic black with white trim), but they only sell them with an EQ-5 mount.

Cheers,

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

Favorite Stuff: Astro-Physics, Baader, Celestron, Pentax, Takahashi, Televue, Zeiss, and .....
a beautiful wife - plus two furry cats who rule the world!



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Doug76
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 6437
Loc: Refractor Heaven (Haven?)
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: starrancher]
      #3422191 - 10/31/09 04:45 PM

Quote:

I don't have first hand experience with the others but the Synta 6 inch refractors are severely front heavy requiring the OTA to be placed very far back in the tube rings to get balance unless you add more weight to the tail of the scope . (More weight) .
And now you really are on the ground when viewing at zenith .




That's where the Orion mount extension comes in. Lifts the whole thing by another 16", and allows the tripod legs to be kept short, for less vibration.

--------------------
Doug
Truckstop Astronomer


American by birth, Southern by the grace of God, future Texan by the will of God (I think )

Celestron C6R
Astro-Tech AT90EDT
Carton 60mm f/16.7
Carton 60mm f/20
Faworski/Carton 100mm f/13
Celestron 50mm f/12.5
Faworski 60mm f/6.7


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galaxyman
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Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 1539
Loc: Limerick, Pa
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: Doug76]
      #3422331 - 10/31/09 06:16 PM

I've owned the Skywatcher 6 " f/8 and have seen through a couple Celestron's 6" f/8 including one in my club.

I have also owned a Meade 6" f/8, a Antares 6" f/6.5, a Astrozap 6" f/8, and now my current ES 6" f/6.5.

No doubt the best optics of this entire bunch (including the Synta's above) is the Astrozap, with the Antares and Explore Scientific right there.

Also the Astrozap, Antares, and the ES have 2mm more aperture

The new Explore Scientific has better optical coatings and focuser then the rest I've seen.

Karl
E.O.H.

Chesmont Astronomical Society
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" f/9 Refractor”The Beast”. One great achro
ES 6" f/6.5 achro. New
Orion 4" f/6 Refractor. Also not bad for an achro
Celestron 10x60mm Binos

--------------------
So many galaxies, so little time!


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Tommy5
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1989
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Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: galaxyman]
      #3422837 - 10/31/09 11:14 PM

The astrozap is a newer model with inprovements in quality control and optics from the eariler Synta and Meade design.Their is probably very little difference in the optical performance between all of these trusty refractors.just enough for the more sharper eyed observers to notice.

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Bill Cowles
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Reged: 04/16/06
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Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: Doug76]
      #3422958 - 11/01/09 12:20 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

I also vote for the C6-R, with Moonlite focuser. A bigger mount is also very important with this scope. It's not the weight but the length.


Bill

--------------------
Lunt LS60TS50DS/B1200/FT (on order)
TV Gensis/Solarmax 60 filter
PST DS/Herschel Wedge/C4-R
C6-R /Atlas Goto/Moonlite CF2
12" LightBridge/Round Table
MCHP/8" Orion OTA/Ultima 2000
10" Discovery /Celestron SE-4


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DLB242
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 864
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: galaxyman]
      #3423088 - 11/01/09 01:42 AM

Quote:

I've owned the Skywatcher 6 " f/8 and have seen through a couple Celestron's 6" f/8 including one in my club.

I have also owned a Meade 6" f/8, a Antares 6" f/6.5, a Astrozap 6" f/8, and now my current ES 6" f/6.5.

No doubt the best optics of this entire bunch (including the Synta's above) is the Astrozap, with the Antares and Explore Scientific right there.

Also the Astrozap, Antares, and the ES have 2mm more aperture

The new Explore Scientific has better optical coatings and focuser then the rest I've seen.

Karl
E.O.H.

Chesmont Astronomical Society
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB 8" f/9 Refractor”The Beast”. One great achro
ES 6" f/6.5 achro. New
Orion 4" f/6 Refractor. Also not bad for an achro
Celestron 10x60mm Binos




I agree with Karl I would go with the ES 6" f/6.5 if I didn't have the Antares 1529 with the MoonLite already.

--------------------
David B



10" f/5 DOB
Celestron C8
6" f/8 DOB
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion 130ST f/5 Reflector 2" GSO Crayford
Stellarvue SV115EDT
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ST80
Stellarvue SV70ED
Stellarvue SV50 Little Rascal


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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: DLB242]
      #3424445 - 11/01/09 08:17 PM

What is the "ES 6" f6.5"? Explore Scientific doesn't show a 6" on their webpage.

Tom


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belgrade
super member


Reged: 10/05/07
Posts: 139
Loc: San Antonio, TX, USA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3424647 - 11/01/09 10:17 PM

The LXD-55 series does not exist anymore (except if you look to purchase used units), it's been replaced a few years back with the LXD-75. The much improved LXD-75 made further advancements with the mount and the tripod supplied with all of the scopes in the series, not only achros. The OTAs, however, have not been majorly redesigned whatsoever - but yes, the lens cell of LXD-75 AR6-AT and AR5-AT are collimatable. BTW, no matter what you can read around here, that job is not as simple as it sounds. I know people who made it worse instead of better and had to cough up some serious buck to get it done right.

The AR-6 telescope is a 6" (152 mm) achromatic refractor by Meade. It sells for $1,200 with free shipping. The AR-5 scope is a 5" (127 mm) achro by the same manufacturer. Its price everywhere is $1,000 with free shipping. Both are great instruments, virtually the same except in the aperature and the focal length, I think the CA is minor but it sure is there on the brightest of the objects, the supplied mount is excellent for visual use, not nearly as much for the astro-photography and/or digital imaging. Oh, the same applies to Celestron's CG5-GT (which is supplied with their CR6-GT) or SkyWatcher's EQ5-PRO (supplied with the 150AR), they are all primarily designed for visual enjoyment of our night sky. Their whole packages can be bought for $1,100 and $1,245, respectively.

I own the 6" achro by Meade and, of course, I am subjective like everybody else here. I like it a lot and its presence alone is worth the money, at least to me, and, needless to say, I respect it much more when I use it under the stars. It impressed anyone who either looked at it or through it - or both. Even my wife who is not a space buff by any measure but instrumental in whether money will be spent on household items or astro-gear likes it a lot and believes that it was money well spent! So I would recommend it with no reservation aside from the fact that it's sort of heavy and bulky (like ALL 6" scopes you and others here mentioned which are F8) so not a good choice if you are forced to move it around a lot and it's, of course, not an ED or APO refractor and it's not as nicely/expensively machined as scopes costing quite a bit more (none of the achros, which are aparently under consideration here, are; they are all mass produced and corners have been cut by their manufacturers here and there). If any or all of these "cons" are a problem for you then do yourself a favor and save at least 2-3 grand more and buy something totally different (and definitively better). Well, even for a grand more you could get a nice ED (some call it APO but let's not start that discussion here! ) of the smaller size, let's say 100-127mmm (4-5") or somewhere around it. I wish you best of luck!

--------------------
Astronomy Technologies Astro-Tech AT80ED 80mm f/7 ED doublet refractor
Meade LXD75 AR6-AT achromatic refractor 152mm/F8
Meade Adventure Pack 10x50 binoculars
Meade Series 4000 Super Plossl EPs
OPT 2" Quartz Dielectric Diagonal
OPT 2" ED 2X Barlow


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belgrade
super member


Reged: 10/05/07
Posts: 139
Loc: San Antonio, TX, USA
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3424657 - 11/01/09 10:23 PM

http://store.explorescientific.com/doubletachromaticrefractortelescopes.aspx

They have two offerings: 127 mm and 152 mm achros, both F6.5 and sold for $600 and $700, respectively plus shipping. Mounts and/or tripods are not provided.

--------------------
Astronomy Technologies Astro-Tech AT80ED 80mm f/7 ED doublet refractor
Meade LXD75 AR6-AT achromatic refractor 152mm/F8
Meade Adventure Pack 10x50 binoculars
Meade Series 4000 Super Plossl EPs
OPT 2" Quartz Dielectric Diagonal
OPT 2" ED 2X Barlow


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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: belgrade]
      #3424855 - 11/02/09 01:02 AM

Interesting, it would seem ES has two websites, the one linked above and this one: http://www.explorescientific.com/ .

Tom


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oddog
member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 98
Re: Which 6" 1200mm Refractor? new [Re: oddog]
      #3424857 - 11/02/09 01:04 AM

Belgrade, thanks for the details on the Meade mounts and your suggestions.

Tom Duncan


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