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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1055
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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I'd be willing to do without replaceable eyepieces, ED glass, and long FL in order to keep the price lower. Just give me 90 degree oculars, please! My neck hurts! 
Mike
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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1767
Loc: Connecticut
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Well, OK, maybe giant ones of any reasonable quality will be expensive. Why not a RA 70mm or 60mm or 50mm model? For astronomy even 50mm binoculars work better mounted.
Glenn has made 50mm RA binos from scratch and loves them. I have a pair of SV 50mm finders set up as RA binoculars and find them easier and more comfortable to use than most other straight thru binos.
Anyone who has or has been interested in a skywindow would be a potential customer.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Peter,
As I said, 45 deg angle viewing is fine for me...at least for now. I am sorry I did not pony up and grab a pair of Miyahcui 22X60 M 45s while they were available.
Sky window would not be for me. I love Correct Image viewing too much. Made the switch to giant binoculars as my primary observing tool in 2001. Never looked back.
Some of us voicing objection to prices of quality binoculars have multiple pairs of mediocre ones we don't use much. It would be less expensive if we purchased one or two pair of superior quality in the first place.
But which ones? Hopefull discussions like this is of help. Right now I can't think of any Chinese Angled giant binocular on my "want" list.
ERik D
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1055
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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Peter,
Quote:
Some of us voicing objection to prices of quality binoculars have multiple pairs of mediocre ones. It would be less expensive if we purchased one or two pair of superior quality in the first place.
The total purchase price of all of my binos together would still be quite a bit less than the $1200 job at Orion. So it would NOT be less expensive to buy one or two pair of the uber-binos. And, IMHO of course, the 15x70 Celestron is not a mediocre bino. Many observers on CN can attest to that. The 25x100 SkyMaster is no slouch either. I kind of like the 10x50 Barkas as well.
Mike
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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1767
Loc: Connecticut
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"It would be less expensive if we purchased one or two pair of superior quality in the first place."
Wouldn't that be nice. I found it hard to justify even a $100 binocular initially. So plunking down $600-$1000 for a binocular wasn't even close to being on my radar for a loong time.
Another problem is that I'm too curious about different types of binoculars. Ended up with a dozen or more different types. For example, giant vs std vs small, narrow vs wide vs EWA vs ginormous fov, electromech vs mechanical vs gyroscopic vs add-on gyroscope IS, vintage vs modern, porro I vs porro II vs abbe-konig vs schmidt-pechan vs uppendahl vs Matsumoto mirrors vs hybrid image erecting systems, standard vs close focusing, homemade vs standard, etc and so forth. It adds up quickly. 
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12895
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Some interesting replies !
My main point was about aiming for longer focal ratios rather than anything else .
I wasn't necessarily thinking about HUGE binoculars here -- just higher magnifications than I consider comfortable to hand - hold ( i.e above 10x ) and with reasonable exit - pupils of between 3.5mm and 6mm .
Given that ( due to the magnification ) most of the models I had in mind would need to be mounted in any case , then I threw in the angled oculars aspect for good measure .
I don't think , for example , that Bk7 prisms are necessarily such a terrible feature for astro use , either .
The Bresser 10 x 50 (40) costing £10 from Lidl are not very good for daytime use , but actually work very well for stargazing -- as good in my opinion as Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50 that cost at least 20 times more .
So what I had in mind were a few more models of f6 to f7 spec. -- right angled oculars like small
astro scopes , in 12 x 50 , 15 x 60 , 18 x 70 or 20 x 80.
Bill made a good point about supply and demand , I will grant that , but how many people were buying 100mm straight through binoculars 15 years ago , compared with now ?
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 911
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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Well im thinking about something a bit bigger myself (wonder what the new 100mm ED "or maybe ED" APM Binos are like) their latest pic on Astromart is a great advert for Clave Paris EPs!!!!
I too have not been impressed with the quality of the "Quantum Series" 100mms that i have seen but i still believe that it should be possible to manufacture some FPL53,F6-7 100mm RA Binos for the £1-£1.4K mark. 
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
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milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 552
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
My main point was about aiming for longer focal ratios rather than anything else .
Hi Kenny,
Unfortunately longer focal ratios conspire against the wide fields-of-view that many value in binocular astronomy. For example, the Miyauchi Saturn III had to use the equivalent of 24mm Panoptic's to squeak out 2° true field! More was impossible in a 1-1/4" format; you could have reduced magnification and apparent field but you wouldn't have achieved any more true field.
As others have said, binoculars are a complete system. You cannot change one thing without affecting another. I am in full agreement with Erik and Barry that we have never had it so good in terms of binocular value.
Best,
Milt
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12895
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Hi Milt !
I agree about the " YOU'VE never had it so good " statement -- but YOU meaning in America ! :-)
The question mark in my title was deliberate .
I'll take it then that the simple answer is :
" NO -- we do NOT need any more options " .
Thanks for your interest , everyone !
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 911
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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Hi Milt
Agreed in terms of better value but we are achieving this with everything from Plasmas to Toys and Refractors.
I could buy (on offer) a new 80mm FPL53 scope for under
£300....and this is my case in "point",why not 80/100mm FPL53 Binos.
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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It would be nice to have a commercially available, astro friendly, affordable bino which is not compromised by one or more of the various deficiencies commonly found. My feeling is that this isn't too likely to happen. High quality (especially for such a demanding lot as we!) and low cost are pretty much mutually exclusive.
Because I couldn't find on the market anything that had the specs I desired, I made my own RA bino. But even doing much of the work myself on my Mk II project, the cost was considerable, the single biggest hit being the pair of 13mm Ethos eyepieces. Of course, having what amounts to four binos in one does ramp up costs further. In the end, the total damage to my wallet came to about $2,500.
But it's worth every penny! Especially when I consider that the upper crust among same-sized, off-the-shelf binos can cost just about as much. And they're merely one trick ponies, too.
I'm surprised that so many balk at the though of spending more than about $1,000 for a well made bino that would address some important criteria for us stargazers. I guess that's why we continue to pine for such a mythical beast; there's no *real* market for anything but the mediocre.
So do like me... make yer own!
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 911
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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Whoops don,t want my post to sound like im attacking Milt
or Anyone for that matter 
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Hi Milt
I could buy (on offer) a new 80mm FPL53 scope for under
£300....and this is my case in "point",why not 80/100mm FPL53 Binos.
Brian
Brian,
Does that 300 pound price include a diagonal and Eye piece or is that the Optical Tube Assembly only. Currently Orion sells their 80mm F7.5 with FPL 53 glass for $500 USD. That price does not include a 90 deg erecting prism or eye piece. Add those two components of sufficient quality and the price could be up to $1,000 USD PER side. Then some one have to design an assembly to join the 2 refractors, and keep them collimated. Add another $500 for that.
Now we are up to $2,500 USD total for a pair of 80 mm ED binocular. Not bad, considering the 32X82 mm Kowa Highlander FL cost about twice that. The Pentax 80mm ED 45 deg spotting scope has been around for quite a few years. This model accepts standard 1.25 inch EPs. We only need to convince Pentax there is a market for 80mm ED angled binoculars.
The question is: How many are willing to pay $2,500 for a pair ?
I would guess not many.
Some feels $1,200 for a pair of 100 mm 90 deg angled binocular is too rich already.
ERik D
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