BobH
super member
Reged: 01/03/08
Posts: 150
Loc: PA
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Just got back from the Eastern Astro show at Hands. Primary reason for going was to see a CGEM in the flesh since buying one has been on my to-do list for almost a year.
Unfortunately, in the corner of the show was a Vixen rep who gave me a nice demo of the Vixen Atlux. Now I have a decision to make.
While the Atlux is way out of my league (and budget), I was really impressed with the Star Book feature. So, now I'm looking at the Sphinx SXD with Hal-130 tripod instead of the CGEM.
Was wondering if anyone would care to compare/contrast the two mounts.
Thanks,
Bob
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"Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise." - Cato the Elder
Meade 8" LX200 GPS
ETX 125 PE
Tasco 50mm x 600mm
StellarVue 115T on MiniTower
Orion Astroview 100
Celestron 8x42 Outland LX
'03 Harley FXDL (oops, wrong forum)
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adamsp123
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 559
Loc: welshpool mid wales UK
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I really cannot give a comparison but I have the 2 mounts either side of the one you are considering. FWIW I love the starbook system, the mounts handle max loads with ease (assuming they are balanced) and the HAL tripod, so long as you make sure the legs are fully opened (a good kick), is incredibly sturdy and is fine for imaging.
Well engineered and built but a bit expensive hence mine are both bought secondhand.
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SkyWatcher 120ED PRO, GSO 200mm F4 Astrograph, Meade 10" SNT, WO 72ED & 66ED
Vixen Sphinx and Vixen Atlux with starbook,
QHY5 guider, Modded Canon 1000D, Baader MPCC.
WO Flattener III
Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence? There's one marked 'Brightness,' but it doesn't work."
TV is called a "medium" because it is neither rare nor well done.
Edited by adamsp123 (10/31/09 07:54 PM)
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Scott Rose
sage
Reged: 04/20/08
Posts: 329
Loc: beachwood ohio
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I have the sxd and love this mount. It is light, quiet, and the starbook is very easy and intuitive to use. I have the HAL130 and it is very sturdy. I use it for a np127is, tsa102, vc200l. Vixen does need to update their starbook with a catalogue for doubles and more stars.
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Lane
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/19/07
Posts: 1682
Loc: Frisco, Texas
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A guy was using one of those starbooks near me last month and that thing throws off enough light to mess up night vision. I ask him to dim it down and he said it was at its lowest setting. So I suggest getting some of that red rubylith film from scopestuff or someone else and cutting a little square to place over the screen. I did that for my mini-laptop computer and it works great and doesn't bother my eyes or anyone elses either. Even in The Sky 6 night mode the computer is still way to bright, the red film really does the trick.
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Mounts: CGEM, ORION SIRIUS, AT Voyager/jmi motorized
SCTs: C6, C8, C9.25, C11,
Refractors: TV Pronto, Orion ED80, AT106
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adamsp123
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/20/08
Posts: 559
Loc: welshpool mid wales UK
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The starbook is too bright even on lowest setting a limitation of LCD technology I have a piece of quite dark neutral density plastic, I did not want to use red film because the star book toggles between blue and red depending if it is in scope or chart mode and I didn't want to get mixed up.
Another point I would make is to remove the ferrite bead thing on the starbook to mount cable, it serves no practical purpose except to cause the thin internal wires to break due to the tight radius it puts on the cable.
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SkyWatcher 120ED PRO, GSO 200mm F4 Astrograph, Meade 10" SNT, WO 72ED & 66ED
Vixen Sphinx and Vixen Atlux with starbook,
QHY5 guider, Modded Canon 1000D, Baader MPCC.
WO Flattener III
Don't you wish there were a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence? There's one marked 'Brightness,' but it doesn't work."
TV is called a "medium" because it is neither rare nor well done.
Edited by adamsp123 (11/01/09 02:12 PM)
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BobH
super member
Reged: 01/03/08
Posts: 150
Loc: PA
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Quote:
Vixen does need to update their starbook with a catalogue for doubles and more stars.
Does that mean the stars do not appear on the sky map, or they are just not described in the data base?
Thanks,
Bob
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"Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise." - Cato the Elder
Meade 8" LX200 GPS
ETX 125 PE
Tasco 50mm x 600mm
StellarVue 115T on MiniTower
Orion Astroview 100
Celestron 8x42 Outland LX
'03 Harley FXDL (oops, wrong forum)
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BCB
Undercover Saboteur
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 5482
Loc: Look over your shoulder
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That ferrite bead is used to silence the line noise between the controller and the mount.. I would leave it be.. You may end up introducing encoder line noise, which in turn will cause motor/tracking errors..
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Mark
Lost in thought. Please send search party!!!
Astro-Tech 111EDT
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
SVP mount w/Meade 497 Autostar GOTO mod
Treeline Observatory
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Siguy
sage
Reged: 01/05/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Massachusetts
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The Vixen mounts, while very nice quality, strike me as incredibly overpriced. Same with almost everything else they sell. I'm not trying to bash Vixen, it's just that the dollar/yen exchange rate makes buying their products a really, really poor choice.
The CGE holds 65 pounds and is made in the USA. The Sphinx holds 33 pounds and while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure it's made in China. So it's roughly equivalent to the $1500 HEQ6/Atlas EQ-G mount.
The Starbook is neat, but it's really not worth that much. I don't actually find it all that impressive, it's incredibly outdated. You could just by a netbook for $300 and hook it up to any GoTo mount.
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Meade LXD75 SN-6AT
Stellarvue AT1010 Nighthawk
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Lane
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/19/07
Posts: 1682
Loc: Frisco, Texas
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They are overpriced, but then they do look and sound a lot nicer than any Orion or Celestron mount. I would love to own one myself, but they just don't carry enough weight for the price.
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Mounts: CGEM, ORION SIRIUS, AT Voyager/jmi motorized
SCTs: C6, C8, C9.25, C11,
Refractors: TV Pronto, Orion ED80, AT106
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BobH
super member
Reged: 01/03/08
Posts: 150
Loc: PA
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Quote:
The CGE holds 65 pounds and is made in the USA. The Sphinx holds 33 pounds and while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure it's made in China. So it's roughly equivalent to the $1500 HEQ6/Atlas EQ-G mount.
The Starbook is neat, but it's really not worth that much. I don't actually find it all that impressive, it's incredibly outdated. You could just by a netbook for $300 and hook it up to any GoTo mount.
I was comparing the SXD with the CGEM, not the CGE. Vixen's website states the Sphinx SXD is rated at 50 lbs. You are probably right about the Starbook. 22,000 objects vs some 40,000 for Meade's rigs (didn't check Orion or Celstron).
Too bad. I was all excited about that Starbook concept. It's a great compromise between fumbling around with charts or blindly using GoTo.
Thanks,
Bob
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"Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise." - Cato the Elder
Meade 8" LX200 GPS
ETX 125 PE
Tasco 50mm x 600mm
StellarVue 115T on MiniTower
Orion Astroview 100
Celestron 8x42 Outland LX
'03 Harley FXDL (oops, wrong forum)
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 4476
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Quote:
Vixen's website states the Sphinx SXD is rated at 50 lbs. Bob
I believe that's 50lbs total weight and it includes the counterweights. So maximum equipment weight will be (depending on the length of the cw bar) 30-35lbs.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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pollux
artiste
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 7033
Loc: Vancouver Canada
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Quote:
The Sphinx holds 33 pounds and while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure it's made in China.
I own GP and owned Sphinx and they both are made in Japan
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Personal Web Site
Telescope Comics
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 25883
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
The Sphinx holds 33 pounds and while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure it's made in China. So it's roughly equivalent to the $1500 HEQ6/Atlas EQ-G mount.
You may compare capacities between the Japanese mounts and the Chinese ones (Meade, Celestron) but similar capacity doesn't mean equivalence in quality or performance (they aren't, by a very long shot). The Tak EM-11 carries less and costs more but folks buy them and it's not just because they never heard of the Sirius mount (a Chinese lookalike with similar capacity). If you want Japanese quality you'll have to pay for it.
The Vixen is closer to the Taks in build quality and performance than it is to the Chinese clone mounts. If you want to move out of the Chinese end of the market the Vixens are a significant step upward without going all the way to the really pricey stuff.
The price difference isn't caused by an exchange rate fluctuation. The clones have always been far cheaper than the originals - that's why there's a market for them and it's why the clones were produced. The CGEM and Atlas are good values, but the price difference between them and the original Tak mount that inspired them is easily understood if you do even a casual comparison. They are built to a very different price point and their designers did what they had to do to achieve that price point. This began years ago and Vixen was the original target.
It's not that the Japanese mounts are priced high, it's that the Chinese mounts are priced low and make the originals seem high. Both are about where they should be in terms of price.
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John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
Meade 80mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Meade 152ED, 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 12" SCT
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
NJP, LXD700, CGE, GPDX/SS2KPC
ST-10XME, DSI Pro
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Siguy
sage
Reged: 01/05/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Massachusetts
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If it isn't due to exchange rate, how do you explain Vixen's $15000 GAIAX, which is more expensive than any other mount in its class? What about all their scopes that ARE made in China, which cost twice as much as equivalent Synta models? Their $5000 Binocular telescope?
Japanese telescopes aren't magical simply because they're made in Japan, or in many of Vixen's cases, made in China and imported from Japan. I have seen a lot of quality in what they produce but I still believe they're overpriced, if only because of the exchange rate.
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Meade LXD75 SN-6AT
Stellarvue AT1010 Nighthawk
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Texas
member
Reged: 01/14/08
Posts: 52
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I guess it all comes down to what you're going to stick on top of it and whether or not you're visual or into imaging.
Don't know anything about the CGEM but I do have an SXD on which I have a Mewlon 250. I'm visual only, with the rare exception of the times I stick a Nikon D40 into a T adapter and take snapshots. The SXD handles the Mewlon without any issues. Also have an SXW on which I have had a 140mm refractor - no issues there either. I would suggest that if you go the Vixen route that you buy a used SXD or if you don't need the capacity a used SXW. In the used market, the SXW especially seems to sell at a pretty decent discount from new.
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Typical stargazer. Too much money spent on too much stuff. This "hobby" has gotten out of hand.
Mewlon 250
AP Traveler
TV 85
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jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 25883
Loc: NE Ohio
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Quote:
What about all their scopes that ARE made in China, which cost twice as much as equivalent Synta models?
That question doesn't appear to be answerable; the underlying premise seems to be incorrect. I'm aware of only three Synta-sourced Vixen models. Those sell for slightly more than from other labels, primarily due to being bundled with more expensive accessories. If there are Vixen models coming from Synta and selling for double I'd want to know so I could avoid them.
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John C
Urban Observatory
A&M/Astreya 76mm F/6 APO
Meade 80mm F/6 APO
TMB/LOMO 80mm F/7.5 APO
Meade 152ED, 178ED F/9 "APO"
Meade 12" SCT
Teeter 20" F/3.8 truss Newt w/ServoCat
NJP, LXD700, CGE, GPDX/SS2KPC
ST-10XME, DSI Pro
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DNTash
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 801
Loc: India
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Quote:
Quote:
The CGE holds 65 pounds and is made in the USA. The Sphinx holds 33 pounds and while I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure it's made in China. So it's roughly equivalent to the $1500 HEQ6/Atlas EQ-G mount.
The Starbook is neat, but it's really not worth that much. I don't actually find it all that impressive, it's incredibly outdated. You could just by a netbook for $300 and hook it up to any GoTo mount.
I was comparing the SXD with the CGEM, not the CGE. Vixen's website states the Sphinx SXD is rated at 50 lbs. You are probably right about the Starbook. 22,000 objects vs some 40,000 for Meade's rigs (didn't check Orion or Celstron).
Too bad. I was all excited about that Starbook concept. It's a great compromise between fumbling around with charts or blindly using GoTo.
Thanks,
Bob
Bob -- so what are you thinking now?
I'm in decision mode, too, and have been leaning toward the CGEM, as I would like to get started with dslr AP. Ease of go-to applications is less important to me, but still a factor.
I wonder how the CGEM compares with the SXD in terms of tracking accuracy, and the need for tweaks (e.g., some have noted in other threads that the Atlas needs tweaks for better accuracy)?
Dale
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AT 72ED f/6 doublet
TMB 92L f/5.5 triplet
Orion 120ST f/5
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BobH
super member
Reged: 01/03/08
Posts: 150
Loc: PA
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Quote:
Bob -- so what are you thinking now?
Well, I was pretty sure the CGEM was the mount for me and I just discovered the Vixen recently, so I guess I'll do more research. What I really need to do is find a couple star parties and maybe see these two mounts in action.
Thanks,
Bob
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"Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise." - Cato the Elder
Meade 8" LX200 GPS
ETX 125 PE
Tasco 50mm x 600mm
StellarVue 115T on MiniTower
Orion Astroview 100
Celestron 8x42 Outland LX
'03 Harley FXDL (oops, wrong forum)
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lionel
member
Reged: 08/12/07
Posts: 83
Loc: Delaware
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Texas, nice to see someone else with the same setup as mine. My Mewlon 250 is mounted on an SXD fitted with an ADM Vix-Los saddle adapter and I too find it a very sturdy yet lightweight setup for visual. The clever head design has the DEC and RA motors both attached to the polar axis so less counterweight is needed....only 22 lb to balance my ~32 lb of decked-out scope.
Overall though I find the SXD is a mixed bag. The mechanical quality, design and construction is a definite step up from the Chinese mounts, but the SXD is handicapped by unsophisticated firmware. I'm not a fan of the Starbook and while I've gotten used to it I find it cumbersome to use, unforgiving of errors and lacking in even basic features and databases compared to the Celestron firmware in my CG5-GT.
Lionel
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Tak Mewlon 250
Powerstar C8
1960s Bushnell 60mm f12 refractor
Sphinx SXD
CG5-ASGT
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Texas
member
Reged: 01/14/08
Posts: 52
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I guess a "mixed bag" kinda nails it as a fair description. Just about everyone considers the Starbook to be the weak link but what do you expect from something with this kind of capacity that costs just over $2200 with goto and shipping included! There's something to be said for portability, setup and ease of use. On that last point, I have a g11/Gemini V3 and I can tell you the the user manual leaves me glassy eyed. Whereas I had a certain comfort level with the SXD after about 15 or 20 minutes. As for as the folks who really have a hunger to view all 64k objects in the Meade db, or want/need certain features, or have an interest in AP, then yeah, the Starbook is gonna disappoint and Vixen ought to try to be more accommodating re. their needs. But for a guy like myself who has the bar set pretty low, the SXD fills the bill.
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Typical stargazer. Too much money spent on too much stuff. This "hobby" has gotten out of hand.
Mewlon 250
AP Traveler
TV 85
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