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Jeronimo Cruz
super member
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 141
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Hi all,
I just got a TeleVue 101 f/5.4 Apo refractor. It's simply AMAZING. With my Nagler 31mm, I can get a 4.5* TFOV that's sharp to the very edge. Starhopping has taken a whole new meaning for me now.
But I'm starting to wonder if my binocular observing will come to an end...
Do any of you have a similar experience? Are any of you with short focal length refractors still observing with binoculars at night?
Thanks for your responses!
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Jeronimo
TeleVue 101 + Gibralter
Celestron NS11 GPS/wedge + Hyperstar
Photon Instruments 127mm + SV F50W2
Lunt Solar Systems LS60DS Ha + Celestron CG-5
Naglers, Panoptics, Radians, Nikon binoviewer
Fujinon 10x70 FMT-SX, 7x42 CD; Canon 15x50IS;
Pentax 7x50 PCF WP, 10x50 PCF WPII, 10x50 DCF SP
Work
20" R/C RCOS on Paramount + Tak FSQ
16" R/C RCOS on Paramount + TEC 140
16" Meade LX200 SCT + TV 76
Ethos, Naglers, Panoptics
Coronado Solarmax 90mm Ha
Coronado Solarmax 70mm Ca
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Are any of you with short focal length refractors still observing with binoculars at night?
Sure. I own 70-mm f/6.9 and 100-mm f/6 refractors, and use binoculars quite often. In fact, most people that I know who enjoy binocular observing also have fast refractors. There's certainly some overlap in their capabilities, but each one can do stuff the other one can't.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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GaryHeath
super member
Reged: 08/13/09
Posts: 118
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My motto has always been "one of each please" and so I have refractors from 8" (Parallax f9) to 80mm (W.O. Megrez), reflectors from 20" (Obsession) to 90mm (Questar Duplex) and all points in between.
The ones that have received the most use over the past two seasons have been a 16" SCT 'exclusively' with a MallinCam, and for visual observing ..... my various Binoculars.
A lot of this is due to my aging eyes, but it's also because the wide FOVs (which the RFTs can also provide) along with, and most importantly .... the comfortable viewing that my StarChair/25X150s provides.
This can be closely duplicated with one of the many Couch-Potato - like chairs for binos (that don't weigh in at 45lbs range).
That, and the "grab-n-go", easy-to-use for both night and day observing, that can only be had with binos, I'd say you have added a high quality, new and exciting "pal" to your observing tools ....... but your binos will always be your amoungst your best buddies too. 
Congrats on the TV, it's a trully great scope!!
Best regards,
Gary
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For equipment see: My Gallery
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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I just snagged a used TMB 130SS APO refractor. I plan on using side by side with BT100s.
As said above, they complement each other.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 921
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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Jeronimo ive been thinking the opposite,are my refractor days over  ive tried a few TVs but never a 101,which im sure is superb...enjoy .
PS on your signature you state SM60 CA,to the best of my knowledge Coronado only produced 70 & 90 MS CA scopes sorry for being pedantic 
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
Edited by Solar B (11/01/09 03:17 PM)
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Jeronimo Cruz
super member
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 141
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Hi Solar B,
Thanks for the correction. It is indeed a 70mm refractor.
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Jeronimo
TeleVue 101 + Gibralter
Celestron NS11 GPS/wedge + Hyperstar
Photon Instruments 127mm + SV F50W2
Lunt Solar Systems LS60DS Ha + Celestron CG-5
Naglers, Panoptics, Radians, Nikon binoviewer
Fujinon 10x70 FMT-SX, 7x42 CD; Canon 15x50IS;
Pentax 7x50 PCF WP, 10x50 PCF WPII, 10x50 DCF SP
Work
20" R/C RCOS on Paramount + Tak FSQ
16" R/C RCOS on Paramount + TEC 140
16" Meade LX200 SCT + TV 76
Ethos, Naglers, Panoptics
Coronado Solarmax 90mm Ha
Coronado Solarmax 70mm Ca
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I use refractors, SCTs and binoculars, all quite frequently. Although I have several small refractors, I guess my smallest fastest is a 80/500 scope. But I have a variety and use them all. Neither scopes nor binoculars will ever cause the end of the other.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 383
Loc: Washington State
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I had a Tele Vue 101mm model for 10 years and used both it and my binoculars extensively. For the past 6 years I've been using a Tele Vue 127mm F/5.2 and yet I still continue to use my binoculars a lot.
But a major part of the reason why I do not tire of my binoculars even though my telescope outperforms them in many ways is because the binoculars still perform very well they're more comfortable to observe with (if reclined and if the binoculars at attached to a P-mount) plus they make it possible to view 5.00-7.40 degree true fields which no telescope can match.
John Finnan
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BINOCULARS
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
SCOPES
Questar 3.5-Inch
Tele Vue NP-127 with TV Bino Vue
EYEPIECES
Deep Sky: 31Nagler, 17-13-10-8-6 Ethos
Lunar & Planetary: 16-10-6-4 ZAO-II
Binoviewing: 24Pan,16Nagler, 10ZOA-II,7.5Taks
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12915
Loc: Lancashire UK
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As , I'm sure every other member who responds will agree , there is a time , place , purpose and preference for having BOTH telescopes and binoculars .
For years my signature line here read " Two eyes and a preference to use both " , and for a reason .
That said , even though I've never looked through a Nagler eyepiece and only have a 76mm TeleVue scope and TV Plossl and Radian eyepieces of presumably comparable optical quality , I do understand what Jeronimo means .
For me though , even just the " correct orientation " alone makes traditional binoculars , prisms , warts and all , worth having .
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 921
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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Ive owned a 13mm ethos and when i used it,i had to roll my "eye" around a bit to take in the fov,now i don,t have to do that with binos...do i  or have i got that wrong.
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
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daniel_h
sage
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 485
Loc: VIC, Australia
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i also like binos for the comfort & speed - i am a lazy astronomer & binos are the best instrument for me
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regal 10x42, 10x50ultras, 15x70 ultras, 20x80
Oly e-500, vixen 100/1000 with 0.965"/1.25",
2 old sturdy tripods for the bins (slik & velbon)
zeiss f5.6 refractor/lens (under construction)
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Jeronimo Cruz
super member
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 141
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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I know exactly what you guys mean! What was I thinking?!
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Jeronimo
TeleVue 101 + Gibralter
Celestron NS11 GPS/wedge + Hyperstar
Photon Instruments 127mm + SV F50W2
Lunt Solar Systems LS60DS Ha + Celestron CG-5
Naglers, Panoptics, Radians, Nikon binoviewer
Fujinon 10x70 FMT-SX, 7x42 CD; Canon 15x50IS;
Pentax 7x50 PCF WP, 10x50 PCF WPII, 10x50 DCF SP
Work
20" R/C RCOS on Paramount + Tak FSQ
16" R/C RCOS on Paramount + TEC 140
16" Meade LX200 SCT + TV 76
Ethos, Naglers, Panoptics
Coronado Solarmax 90mm Ha
Coronado Solarmax 70mm Ca
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Loren Toole
super member
Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 124
Loc: New Mexico USA
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I came to this point several times in the past 10 years, you can see from my sig line where that led... most of my astro-career has included at least one pair of binos plus a refractor. I go through cycles on this, preferring binos to scope and vice versa. My eyes have declined which tends to favor minimalist (but larger) binos on a monopod. However, I confess to being an equipment junkie with expensive tastes, there is simply no substitute for using a fast refractor with quality eyepieces. At the moment, I'm upgrading to 12.5" aperture, but the refractor will always be one of my routine ways to enjoy the night sky. I am also trying to decide how to organize my bino collection to complement my usual observing habits, maybe that's really the crux of your question?
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My binos: 6x30, 7x35, 10x70, 15x60, 20x80
My scopes: 5"f5 newt, 4"f5 TV Genesis, 4"f5 TV 101, 3"f9, 3"f5
ARCO OBSERVATORY 7200'
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
For me though , even just the " correct orientation " alone makes traditional binoculars , prisms , warts and all , worth having.
Actually, if you really care that much, it's easy to buy an Amici prism for a regular refractor. But I'm curious exactly what it is about the "correct" view that's important to you. Matching the naked-eye view? Matching your charts? Both?
For me, mirror-reversal is a constant trial. I live with it, but I'm often tripped up with it; my mind just doesn't want to cooperate. The 180-degree rotation of a Newtonian or straight-through refractor, by contrast, doesn't bother me a bit. Almost no time flat, I've forgotten that the image is upside-down.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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My favourite instrument is always the one i'm using at the moment! But I just seem to get more emotional involvement from binoculars. Don't know why, just always been that way.
I have no problem with the reversal issues of using telescopes, but to me they don't evoke the same feelings of pride of ownership and nostalgia that binos do. I think it's maybe because they are compact, self contained instruments that are often hand-held. A tactile thing maybe.
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Clear skies
Rich
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OpalescentNebula
super member
Reged: 01/11/07
Posts: 118
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Observing so...
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I’ve been thinking of getting another set of binoculars, Oh no. I find like others I really enjoy the view of my binoculars. I’m thinking of getting 15x60’s.
As Tony said “my first love is naked eye then second are binoculars.” 
I like my refractor but for non-frustrating nights, under the p-mount with my giant bins are far more enjoyable.
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Yours truly,
Bill
"Good friends are like stars...you don't always see them, but you know that they are always there" - unknown
Binos : various binos, Zeiss 10x42 FL, Garrett Optical 20x110
telescope: WO Megrez 110 ED
Eyepieces: 13mm Ethos, 5mm Pentax XO, 28mm WO & 2x Powermate
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12915
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Tony ,
I already have an erecting prism for my refractors -- not that I use it on the night sky very much .
Approximately 90% of my use of binoculars and telescopes is in the daytime , and I just prefer to see things the normal way around , especially distant landscape scenery such as mountain ranges and objects with names on them , such as signposts and vehicle registration plates -- as for me it makes it far easier to read them quickly .
I therefore tend to use the Zeiss Diascope more than the TeleVue for daytime use , with the added bonus of it being much lighter and waterproof .
Similarly , if watching a game of cricket or horse racing , I would find it too unnatural and unnecessarily awkward to scan my binoculars in the opposite direction to that which I " know " the ball or horses are travelling .
Even when star gazing though , I prefer the correct orientation mainly for the first reason you suggested -- because it's the same as the naked - eye view .
Call me old fashioned , but it's just the way I am ! :-)
Kenny
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3469
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
I just got a TeleVue 101 f/5.4 Apo refractor. It's simply AMAZING. With my Nagler 31mm, I can get a 4.5* TFOV that's sharp to the very edge. Starhopping has taken a whole new meaning for me now.
But I'm starting to wonder if my binocular observing will come to an end...
As we've all agreed, binocular viewing is qualitatively different from monocular viewing, and neither can substitute for the other.
But I think I know what your initial post was all about. Superior optical quality ranks pretty low in the attributes that I look for in binoculars. Nice to have if I don't have to give up anything else, but not very important for my purposes.
However, this forum is inhabited by a bunch of optical-quality purists. And from that point of view, the sober fact is that the optical quality that many people strive so mightily to find in binoculars is ludicrously easy to obtain in a telescope.
Another point. Optical quality isn't worth much if you can't focus well. And a telescope with a rack-and-pinion focuser designed for 100X is *far* easier to focus at 15X or 20X than any binoculars I've ever seen.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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