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This jet is one of the great mysteries - no one has a clue what could cause that.

-drl

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Well, it's very well known that it's a supermassive black hole a couple billion times the sun's mass that causes it. I believe the leading theory for how the jets become so well collimated is that they are focused with a very powerful magnetic field.

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Well I won't get into it but that just doesn't work. Not the place for me to discuss it, based on past experience.

-drl

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It (emission of material from near the accretion disk of a central supermassive black hole) is the leading theory as to what causes the jet. Whether it is the actual reason or not might be somewhat debatable, but the model for the jet does work, at least in theory. We can debate it here or on the science forum, but it is the leading explanation. Clear skies to you.

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No, that doesn't work, and I won't discuss why. So no one (no one being defined as only myself) has any idea why black holes have jets.

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No one knows enough to deny this either. The mathematics of galaxy dynamics is far from being solved or even confirmed in observation, let alone the dynamics of supermassive black hole stability. However, simply from the characteristics of the gravitational potential energy, it is of the order that can create such jets, and that makes the explanation sufficient for our current level of understanding. Debating fluidics within a black hole being able to coherently support jets is going to be science fiction for quite a while, so lets not go there.

We are clearly seeing close to quasar level energy, much, much closer. And seeing that with the human eye is very exciting.

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Debating fluidics within a black hole being able to coherently support jets is going to be science fiction for quite a while, so lets not go there.

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Well, I wouldn't exactly call it science fiction. We do know that there is a very massive (between 3 and 6.4 billion solar masses) and relatively small (roughly twice our solar system's diameter) object at the center of M87, surrounded by a hot accretion disk. We have observed conditions near the center which support strong magnetic fields capable of helping collimate jets from the region near the central point of M87. A reasonably good model of the central region of M87 has been formulated that involves a supermassive black hole that can produce jets from the innermost part of the accretion region (not from the event horizon itself), so although not exactly proven, it is supported by observational evidence and is within the realm of science, not "science fiction". Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org

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The "science fiction" ref involves the physics within the event horizon that is at question - what kind of substance/organization lies within. Some ideas include a quark/gluon plasma largely unorganized, others are variations on Bose/Einstien or Fermi/Dirac "oceans" with peculiar rigidity and potentially no convection(!). This kind of fluidics is what I was referring to.

I agree there is no need for "science fiction" for jets as outside the event horizon - more than enough proof. Fluidics in that case are a form of MHD - not an issue. But some quibble about the mechanism given statistical physics, which is what I saw in the last post I was responding to - if you see dynamics of a black hole as like a sun statistically you can't get jets due to randomization, so the MHD can't "organize" to the high order needed.

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The "science fiction" ref involves the physics within the event horizon that is at question - what kind of substance/organization lies within. Some ideas include a quark/gluon plasma largely unorganized, others are variations on Bose/Einstien or Fermi/Dirac "oceans" with peculiar rigidity and potentially no convection(!). This kind of fluidics is what I was referring to.

I agree there is no need for "science fiction" for jets as outside the event horizon - more than enough proof. Fluidics in that case are a form of MHD - not an issue. But some quibble about the mechanism given statistical physics, which is what I saw in the last post I was responding to - if you see dynamics of a black hole as like a sun statistically you can't get jets due to randomization, so the MHD can't "organize" to the high order needed.

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Well, since anything inside the event horizon is effectively cut off from our universe, is it even valid to talk about what's inside the event horizon? From our point of view, time has frozen at the event horizon. I guess you could talk about what would happen if you fell into a black hole...

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Pasta would.

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Pasta would.

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I don't think even vermichelli is quite thin enough to describe what happens to you falling into a black hole

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John T.
Austin, TX
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos

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