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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: Ann Arbor
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Which one would be a better choice for grab and go, I notice the weight isn't that much different. Does the 8" suffer from stability issues? Can I use a 31mm Nagler with the 8" (with the 6se I would use a 24mm Panoptic)? MY 5 inch APO on the GM8 mount isn't exactly grab and go!!
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Abe -- the poor PhD student
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12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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ibase
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/20/08
Posts: 1541
Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
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Looking at your sig. line, I'd go with the 8SE. As you've noted, the weight difference is not that much with the 6SE - I carry my N8 if one fell swoop, just like a 6SE that I had before. Sold the 6SE, it was just gathering dust with the 8 around. With the Nexstar 8 on concrete floor on the 4th floor roofdeck where I observe, it took 3.7 seconds to stabilize with a tap on a leg. Using a set of Celestron vibration pads, the jiggle was reduced to 0.8 sec. The 8SE would nicely complement in between your 12" SCT and 5" apo. Don't know how heavy a Nag31 is but you can make adjustments on the 8SE by sliding the OTA forward to offset heavy accessories at the back. Just 2 cents.
Best,
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Hernando
Nexstar 8/CG-5 ASGT; WO Megrez 102ED SV; Antares 6" 1529; WO ZS66SD; Orion ST80
TV Naglers 5T6, 9T1, 12T2; Panoptic27; Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom,21mm; WO 7.5-22.5mm
BO/TMB 2.5/3.2/4/6mm;UO HD 5;BGO 6;Meade-RGO 7;UO-V 9/12.5;Brandon 16mm;Ultima18
TV 2x,3x barlow&8/11/15/20/32plossl; Aspheric31;Siebert36-OB;Paragon40;Meade56Smoothie
C-f/6.3FR;OIII,UHC,SkyGlow,U-block,8"S-flter;GLP/Telrad/MRF/9x50RACI; NexImge;Canon RebelXS
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Peter9
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/30/08
Posts: 807
Loc: Yorkshire - Born & Bred
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Hi Abe,
I recently upgrade from 6se to 8se. The thing I noticed re "Grab and Go" was the extra bulk rather than the weight. I store the 8se, as I did the 6se, fully assembled in my shed. The weight difference, 3lbs, makes no noticeable difference but the extra bulk makes it slightly more ackward to handle. Its nothing that would stop me from regarding it as a true "Grab and Go" telescope.
I find that stability is not compromised, the 8se feels just as stable as the 6se did. The one area which is a tad worse is the vibration when focusing. Some of this is down to the bigger scope being on the mount but I think most of it is due to the fact that, for any given E.P, you are operating at great mags than with the 6se thus producing, what seems like, more vibration. Damping down time appears to be just as quick with the 6se, a couple of seconds at most.
Of the two I much prefer the 8se. Aperture rules.
Peter.
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------------------------------------------------
Some of the pleasure I get from life I owe to Astronomy.
Astronomy does not owe me a thing.
-------------------------------------------------
Nexstar 8se
150mm Helios Newton Reflector EQ 3 G.E.M.
6.3mm 10mm Plossls. Celestron 25mm & 40mm E.Ps. 8mm x 24mm Baader Hyperion Zoom. 2x Barlow. 9x50 R.A.C.I Finderscope. G.L.P and Bracket. Dew Shield. Home made Solar filter. Home made H.C Holder.(Great Asset). Maplin's 12V 17ah Auto Start Unit.
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Midnight Dan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 2757
Loc: Brockport, NY
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Hi Abe:
I consider my 8SE to be grab and go, but it depends on exactly what you mean by that. I leave mine set up on the tripod and just carry it right outside when I want to use it. No assembly required and lightweight enough to pick up as a unit. But, SCT's require cool-down time to get the best views so some would say this takes it (and the 6SE) out of the grab and go category compared to a refractor.
Also, both these units need power. They do have a built-in battery compartment and you can certainly use that for more of a grab and go experience. But, you'll only get a few hours out of a set of batteries and when you have to replace them 8 at a time it gets pretty expensive. So most people use a rechargeable external 12v supply like a PowerTank or automotive jump start unit. These work great but reduce the grab-and-go-ish-ness  of the setup.
Stability is one of the weak points of the tripod used in both these scopes. It's the tradeoff for owning the lightest weight 8" aperture goto system in the market. It's perfectly adequate for visual use though, and can be improved by using antivibration pads and hanging a weight (like a power tank) from the spreader. The 6SE may be a bit more stable because it weighs a little less, but in my opinion the added aperture of the 8SE FAR outweighs the slight decrease in stability.
As for eyepieces, the widest view you can get depends not only on the eyepiece focal length, but the AFOV and the size of your diagonal. With the 6SE, the baffle tube is pretty small so moving to a 2" diagonal does not improve the TFOV too much. But in the 8SE, going to a 2" diagonal allows a much wider view. With the stock 1.25" diagonal, you can use up to about a 24mm EP with a 68° AFOV. With a 2" you can use at least a 36mm EP with a 68° AFOV. In tests I've run, the maximum TFOV in an 8SE is about 1.9°. However, when you get much above 1.2° you start to notice a little off-axis dimming which is an effect due to the design of the SCT. I don't find it objectionable but some might.
Hope this helps!
-Dan
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Scopes: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Orion EON 72mm ED/APO, Orion ShortTube 80
Mounts: NexStar Alt/Az GoTo, Orion Astroview (EQ3) w/single axis drive
Eyepieces: Baader Hyperion 36mm (Aspheric), 21mm 13mm, 8mm, 5mm;
Other: 2x & 3x Barlow, 0.63x Focal Reducer, Dew-not strips, DewBuster controller, SQM Meter
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watcher
sage
Reged: 11/21/07
Posts: 406
Loc: NJ
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Hi Abe. I'm sure the 8" would qualify for grab&go compared to your other setups, but I fear that it's a bit too good for your stable. Think about it. 8" sct that you can scoop up under your arm and set up in minutes. How many nights is that gonna take away from your 12"? Yea, 12" is a lot better, but 8" ain't bad, and it's sooo much easier. A grab&go should be something good enough for a quick observation fix, but not good enough to lead you from the more difficult path. How about a 5"SE, or better yet, replace your f/9 ED with this Stellarvue f/7 102ED on this SLT mount. The 60mm SLT is only 175.00 at Amazon, with free shipping.
Just another way of looking at things.
Joe
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(quote)"That does it! Next Big Bang, someone has got to rethink this gettin' old business!" Joe Daugert
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1986 Celestron c-8 (retired)
Celestron Omni XLT 120
Celestron Astromaster 70 AZ
Vixen GP2 mount on Omni XLT tripod (soon to be driven by iOptron GOTO Nova)
Meade 16x50 binoculars
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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6582
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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The physical effort required to pick up my 5" Achro on its LXD55 mount is 10 times more then the effort required to lug my 8i outside when both are set up on the tripods (which is how I store them)...
The Refractor gathers dust not only because because it is harder to lug outside BUT the the 8i absolutely kills it visually...
Bob G.
Since you own a 12" SCT...you have to be aware of cool down times...which basically eliminate any SCT from being a true grab and go...when I want to take a look at something NOW...I walk the 100 mm refractor outside...
Bob G
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: Ann Arbor
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Well I do not mind the cool down time, I think the biggest factor for me is effort...I am usually too tired to take anything big outside and would like to go out in one swoop with as much aperture as possible...I wanna set up in 10 minutes and break down in 2 minutes...I can get a cat cooler to help with cool down. I live on a third floor apartment with no elevator so I want to take as little trips as possible, without the hernia...haha
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Abe -- the poor PhD student
-----------------------------------------
12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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Midnight Dan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 2757
Loc: Brockport, NY
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Ah ... you played the "stair" card! That changes things.
The 8SE is bulkier than the 6SE and it would be easier to manage the 6 going up and down those stairs. But, if it was me, I'd still want the 8. The difference in what you can see makes it worth the small extra effort. To keep it to one trip, there's some things you can do to keep your load light.
First, the battery issue. You probably don't want a 20 pound jump start unit if you can get away with it. I have a 12V rechargeable NiMH battery pack that is very small and lightweight, yet provides 2 hours of operation for the scope and dew heaters. I use it almost exclusively in the winter since my sessions are short and I too would prefer to limit the carrying in and out. Here's a link to where I got it: http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/items.asp?db=37 It's number 11731 if you scroll down the page about 1/3 of the way. If you want more observing time, consider one with more milliamp hours further down the page. I just have mine velcroed to the scope as shown in this photo:
As shown above, it plugs right into the scope's power jack. But I also made up a cigarette lighter adapter for it. That way I can plug in my dew heater system as well. Here's a photo of the various adapters I mad up and the charger I got from the same site:
When I haul my scope out in grab and go mode, I have all the accessories attached such as finder, diagonal, dew shield, dew heaters and battery pack. I also have a fishing vest with lots of pockets for other stuff I need. You could use any coat with lots of pockets in the winter.
The things I bring out in my pockets are: eyepieces, filters, anti-vibration pads, red flashlight. To limit eyepieces, a good choice would be the Baader Hyperion Clickstop Zoom. I don't have one but its on my list for grab and go situations. It gets high ratings by many here on CN and covers the range of EPs from 24mm to 8mm.
The one thing I haven't got a good "grab and go" solution for is an observing chair - which I consider a VERY important piece of gear. I have a bad back and hunching over a scope is not my idea of a good time. Plus, if you're comfortable while viewing, you will actually see more. Since I don't have 2 flights of stairs to deal with, the chair is the one thing that causes me to take a second trip.
I'm looking at something like this as a potential solution: http://yhst-1469288697390.stores.yahoo.net/smiiiobch.html
I was thinking I could add a strap to it and hang it on my back while I carry the scope out. Haven't decided on that yet but its something you might want to consider.
-Dan
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Scopes: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Orion EON 72mm ED/APO, Orion ShortTube 80
Mounts: NexStar Alt/Az GoTo, Orion Astroview (EQ3) w/single axis drive
Eyepieces: Baader Hyperion 36mm (Aspheric), 21mm 13mm, 8mm, 5mm;
Other: 2x & 3x Barlow, 0.63x Focal Reducer, Dew-not strips, DewBuster controller, SQM Meter
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DeepField
super member
Reged: 08/17/09
Posts: 104
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I selected the 6SE over the 8SE for two reasons; portability and price.
The 8SE might only be a few pounds heavier, but if you are thinking of using a hard case, it ends up being considerably bigger and also more expensive (if you want a nice fitting case and not a tupperware box). If you use a softcase, you can get a smaller package, but I don't really consider a backpack a protective environment for a scope (especially if you are transporting it down several flights of stairs or in the trunk of your car).
I heard the "bigger is better" aperture arguments before (some call it "aperture fever"). While there is no disputing the fact you get 78% more area, I have compared both side-by-side and I must say, under most non-ideal seeing conditions, I have yet to see a significant difference that is worthy of the extra cost and size issue. (Of course you can disagree, this is just my experience).
The 8SE is 50% more expensive than the 6SE. No arguing that.
On the other hand, if I had bags of money and was only moving my scope from inside to my backyard, I probably not have bought a Nexstar at all. (Takahashi TOA-130 comes to mind).
--------------------
Scott
Nexstar 6SE
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Talon
member
Reged: 10/22/09
Posts: 23
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I can't answer the question about which one is better, but I will tell you that after months of analysis I had convinced myself that the 6SE was the way to go. I suppose that I called my own bluff, because within 24 hours of ordering a 6SE I changed my mind. So I called Adorama and changed my order to an 8SE. As I posted here earlier, I was quite surprised and happy to get the 8SE for only $1,049. I could not be happier with my purchase. I am sure that I would've been happy with the 6SE, but I would have been constantly thinking about my next scope. With the 8SE in hand, I am very happy and constantly thinking about my next accessory.
Ultimately, I think you can find and justify excellent reasons for either scope. I also commend this forum as the best resource I found in helping to make that decision. Since I will be using this scope for many years, the added expense is easily justified. Even at $400 more and 10 years of use, that's less than 11 cents a day 
My advice is obviously worth the price, but I would highly recommend getting something soon. My biggest regret is how long it took me to finally pull the trigger.
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NexStar 8SE
EP: Pentax 8-24mm Zoom
Pentax 10x50 DCF ED
Planisphere
Very Long Wish List
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Arctic_Eddie
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 599
Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
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If you're going to have only one large scope then go for the 8SE. If you already have an 8" and it's too heavy to drag out for a quick view, LX200R-8, then go for the 6SE. It's a one chunk scope. If you're going off for a week or so then something like an AT80EDTA on a Minitower is nice. That's my lineup.
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The shortest distance between one point is an infinitely small circle.
73's de KF4JU
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coutleef
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/21/08
Posts: 1722
Loc: Montréal and Saint-Donat, Québ...
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Many of us take their SE scope (6 or 8) outside in one trip. I am aware of one of us who tripped and destroyed the OTA.
If you trip in stairs, results will be identical with a 6SE or a 8SE: the OTA will likely be broken. Not having a scope for a while after it got broken will 'nullify' any advantage of carrying everything in one trip.
I never do that after a 'near fall' i had with the complete scope i was trying to move in the dark.
Believe me, it scared me for good. I always carry the OTA in a plastic box with the foam and the rest seperately.
I had a 6SE for a short while and then got a 8 SE. In opposite to one statement above, i saw a clear difference. And it did put a big smile on my face, that is still there.
I bought the 8SE because at the time this was going to be my only scope. I got the biggest my budget and my back could manage. When i look at galaxies from my dark site, i appreciate greatly the difference of 2" in aperture.
But since i contemplate buying a 12-14" dob, it would probably have been better to get the cheaper 6 SE and put the money on the big dob. But then, when i will make these rare trips to a blue or gray zone, it sill be with my smaller scope not the big gun.
I will never risk damaging a $1,400 scope just because i want to set up quickly and save 3 minutes. Setting up the scope and my scope and accessories , are part of the hobby (hey look at how much time we spend on cloudy nights discussing of equipment, look at the ingenious tricks for aligning that Tel and Bob came up with, Ron 's rail, etc.). We like to look at the sky, but we also like the equipment that helps us doing that.
I set up in three trips: one for the OTA (protected in a box), one for the mount and tripod, one for the EP, charts.
This is a hobby, i do not overstress over the time it takes to set up!!
--------------------
François
Scopes: Nexstar 8 SE with Ron's rail and Denk S1 Powerswitch. EPs list is on my Bio.
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Peter9
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/30/08
Posts: 807
Loc: Yorkshire - Born & Bred
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Agreed Francois, I store my scope fully set up for convenience, having only to move it a matter of 5yds from shed to observing spot. The setting up of the power pack, and the table for my E.Ps, attaching of the dew shield etc are, as you say, all part of the hobby and are to be enjoyed. I can set up using the batteries if needs be.
Peter.
--------------------
------------------------------------------------
Some of the pleasure I get from life I owe to Astronomy.
Astronomy does not owe me a thing.
-------------------------------------------------
Nexstar 8se
150mm Helios Newton Reflector EQ 3 G.E.M.
6.3mm 10mm Plossls. Celestron 25mm & 40mm E.Ps. 8mm x 24mm Baader Hyperion Zoom. 2x Barlow. 9x50 R.A.C.I Finderscope. G.L.P and Bracket. Dew Shield. Home made Solar filter. Home made H.C Holder.(Great Asset). Maplin's 12V 17ah Auto Start Unit.
Edited by Peter9 (11/05/09 11:51 AM)
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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: Ann Arbor
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Anyone in the MIchigan area willing to give me a tour of their telescope?
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Abe -- the poor PhD student
-----------------------------------------
12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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DeepField
super member
Reged: 08/17/09
Posts: 104
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I believe the 6SE is the Nexstar point of diminishing returns.
I just didn't feel the improvement in viewing going from a 6SE to a 8SE was worth $400. While the area is 78% greater, I sure didn't see a 78% improvement! (I'd say even less than 7.8%) I got a bigger improvement when adding my $200 eyepiece.
Actually, after owning my 6SE, I'm now thinking of going DOWN in aperture to a smaller ED refractor for extra portability (and some astrophotography) rather than up to 8SE for minimal visual improvements under ideal conditions.
--------------------
Scott
Nexstar 6SE
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Midnight Dan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 2757
Loc: Brockport, NY
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Hi DeepField:
Just picking a nit here, but when you take into account the different sizes of the central obstructions, the 8SE has 92% more area than the the 6SE.
Cheers!
-Dan
--------------------
Scopes: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Orion EON 72mm ED/APO, Orion ShortTube 80
Mounts: NexStar Alt/Az GoTo, Orion Astroview (EQ3) w/single axis drive
Eyepieces: Baader Hyperion 36mm (Aspheric), 21mm 13mm, 8mm, 5mm;
Other: 2x & 3x Barlow, 0.63x Focal Reducer, Dew-not strips, DewBuster controller, SQM Meter
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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1091
Loc: Ann Arbor
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Now can I hang a 31mm Nagler off the back (that's all I have in that size range) without problems...
--------------------
Abe -- the poor PhD student
-----------------------------------------
12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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Nippon
member
Reged: 10/22/09
Posts: 54
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I had an optically excellent Celestron SPC6 for several years and it was a fine scope but when I was given an also optically excellent C8 I realized that 8" of aperture crosses a threshold that really lets your eyes start to see some detail in everything, planetary detail, lunar detail and DSOs. I was so impressed with the old C8 I bought a new NexStar 8SE for the goto and it is even better optically. I'd say go for the SE8.
Nippon
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Tel
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 3981
Loc: Wallingford England
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Hi Abe,
Returning to your original question concerning the comparison of 6SE with the 8SE merely in terms of their relative "Grab and Go" advantages, I agree with Francois: to carry either of these 'scopes, fully assembled down any flight of stairs, is a sure recipe for disaster.
With both 'scopes of similar dimensions and weight, price and aperture will mean nothing if one's pride and joy is laying at the bottom of the flight in a shattered heap.
Better, surely, to respect the value of either (any?) choice by setting up in as many logically safe stages as it takes, rather than risk disaster for the sake of an extra climb upstairs ?
Best regards,
Tel
--------------------
Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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coutleef
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/21/08
Posts: 1722
Loc: Montréal and Saint-Donat, Québ...
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Quote:
I believe the 6SE is the Nexstar point of diminishing returns.
I just didn't feel the improvement in viewing going from a 6SE to a 8SE was worth $400. While the area is 78% greater, I sure didn't see a 78% improvement! (I'd say even less than 7.8%) I got a bigger improvement when adding my $200 eyepiece.
Actually, after owning my 6SE, I'm now thinking of going DOWN in aperture to a smaller ED refractor for extra portability (and some astrophotography) rather than up to 8SE for minimal visual improvements under ideal conditions.
Interesting how differrent persons have different views through the same scopes .
It then all depends on the poster desire: is he the type that will like smaller scopes (you are going down for smaller scopes) and not big apertures (i am not saying that this is bad, that is very personnal) and he will be a 6SE type or going to larger apertures like me (thinking of going 12 inch), he will be a 8SE type.
When i looked at M81 from my white zone in the city with the 6SE, it was visible mainly with averted vision, barely with direct vision, but when i looked with the 8SE it was visible immediately with direct vision. It convinced me to go bigger.
Again that is very personnal. If i had the 6SE, i would have been faster to get the 12" dob. With the 8SE, i do not feel as compelled to do so. Again , YMMV
--------------------
François
Scopes: Nexstar 8 SE with Ron's rail and Denk S1 Powerswitch. EPs list is on my Bio.
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