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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1087
Loc: Ann Arbor
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How would a C9.25 compare with a 5" APO? This is visual on all targets....If I go CAT, I can get a grab and go setup also (Nexstar 6SE)...just thinking....whats everyone's wisdom??
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Abe -- the poor PhD student
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12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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MacRoberts
sage
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 421
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Nah, it's not blasphemy. The C9.25 seems to be one of the gems in Celestron's lineup - check out Ed Ting's review of the C9.25 if you haven't already done so.
Assuming collimation and temperature-related effects have been dealt with well, many such C9.25's I've looked through beat my 5" APO on planetary detail under very good to excellent seeing conditions. It's a big assumption - many the 9.25 SCT that hasn't been properly collimated or temp stabilized when I happened by and the images showed it.
Less favorable seeing conditions (or the presence of collimation or temp issues) and all bets are off - my NP-127 tends to put up a better image of planets unless seeing is pretty darn good.
The C9.25 should outperform the 5" on doubles absent collimation or temp issues.
A 5" APO should exhibit markedly better contrast.
DSO observing will fare better in the C9.25 on most targets unless you catch a mirror with a poor figure or there are collimation issues.
The 5" APO will (obviously) have a wider TFOV capability if wide field is important to you. As a result, it probably wins hands down on most open clusters and diffuse nebula because of angular size of most such targets.
Globs - nod goes to the C9.25, all things being equal.
So - what's important to you?
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Jim
"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; what is man, that thou art mindful of him?" Psalms 8:3-4
TV Refractors
Fuji Binoculars
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RussL
Music Maker
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 1925
Loc: Cayce, SC
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Abe, I think Jim said it all when he asked what's important to you. My 8" SCT beats my 120ST refractor on all but one thing---low-power, wide views, and that's what's important to me, richfield observing. I also prefer something that is lightweight since I have to move around the yard often. But, that's just me.
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--Dawg, the Russell
"Akita mani yo." Observe everything as you walk. (--Lakota)
Celestron Celestar 8 Standard SCT, f10
Celestron 80mm Wide View ref., f5
Orion 120ST ref., f5
Criterion RV-6 Dynascope, Newt., f8, (c. 1962)
Sears Discoverer 60mm ref., f7, (c. 1973)
Celestron Ultima DX 10x50, 6.5 TFOV
Tasco 7x35 wide
Several mediocre eyepieces
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 730
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Well I own an FS128 and I used to own a 9.25 and I sold the 9.25 to a club member and get to see it every now and again. I went from the 9.25 to the C14.
I would definitely consider owning a 9.25 again.
I would prefer the FS128 to a c8 (have one of those too, but don't use it). No problem there.
Against the 9.25--now things get a bit dicey. The thing is the 9.25 just can't deliver a 2.8 degree field. Not even close. It's stuck around 1.1 degrees. It does have significantly more brightness for deep sky targets. On the other hand, there are many thousands of targets for a 5" refractor.
Apos can be things of great beauty and that's a good thing and a bad thing. Sometimes it's nice to have a coffee can you're not too worried about it getting some dings. A 6" SCT is not to be compared to a true upper tier 5" apochromatic refractor. If you're talking Chinese apos, I won't volunteer an opinion.
I sometimes think about this because I can envision the day when I am too feeble to use the C14. And I wonder if I would just downsize to a c11 or 9.25. I guess it depends on the depth of the decrepitude. I guess I would consider the 5" apo vs a 9.25 to be something of a draw. Much to be said either way. As far as feebleness goes if you can use one you can use the other. As far as compactness goes the 9.25 wins.
One of the finest nights I have had was watching c/2007 E2 Lovejoy in Aquila two years ago, no, almost three. I used the FS128 and watched it crawl through the milky way. Wow.
If you tell me you want a Tec 140 or TOA 150 instead of the 9.25 then I would say hell yeah get the refractor. But you are just right at the balance point. Due to my personal experiences with Chinese output I would probably choose a U.S. made 9.25 over an "inexpensive" Chinese apo, some people are having good experiences with these, but I don't think the mechanical reliability is there. A used 9.25 for $750 (some I've seen) is a terrific deal vs $2k for a Chinese 5" apo. Tell me you've got the money for a good refractor and mount and want a TEC 140 then I say to heck with the 9.25. But if you're talking TOA 130 or FS128 vs 9.25, and you say you went with the FS128, I'll say, yeah me too, but if you say I got the 9.25 and put it on a G11 mount, I'll say that's one of the finest combinations in amateur astronomy. None of these are particularly grab and go except for the 6".
regards
Greg N
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"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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PlanetMan
sage
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 434
Loc: Upland, Ca.
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I had a C9.25 for a few years and it provided great planetary views. I had it in a well-ventilated mini roll-off shed in the back yard so it was almost always ready to go. Then I lost the shed to a re-landscaping project and cool-down became a big issue. By the time I got it set up and cooled down, it was time for me to go back in! My current lineup of scopes is a much better fit for my viewing habits: quick lunar/planetary peeks from home and late night DSO hunting in the desert. But sometimes I still miss that 9.25.
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12" Lightbridge, OWL Optics
TV-85
A-T Voyager
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4938
Loc: MA
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IMO, there's nothing significantly different between the 9.25 and other SCTs, and if it's decent (1/4 wave), it will comfortably out-do a 6" APO. The big caveats are equilibration and collimation. Collimation is very easy to attend to, but IMO it will need a fan installed to perform up to its capabilities.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1087
Loc: Ann Arbor
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The thing is portability...the 5 inch apo on the gm8 is not exactly grab and go. With the money I have I could sell off the apo and use that money for a c9.25 to use on the gm8 when I can out some time into observing and also get a nexstar 6se for a grab and go that would be used 80% of the time because my schedule is rough and I am usually tired and want to look at stuff but don't have energy to set up and find things...but a small apo is too small...a 6 inched would show me a lot...I am still thinking because the refractor puts up good images but I only use the set up once in a while and I wanna go outside more...sometimes even for 10-15 minutes....if money wasn't an issue I would get the 6se without selling anything but the truth is with my about two years from defending my thesis ...things got real busy and I am finding myself not going out much because I am fatigued....now I do go to outreach events or sometimes have time off so would want a bigger scope to use....the twelve inched only gets used when I go up north (Michigan) over the summer....love it!
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Abe -- the poor PhD student
-----------------------------------------
12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2079
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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I own both a C925-CF and a Tak FS-128.
Both of my scopes are great and show me the wonders of the skies. Both are relatively light and easy to handle and both ride easily on my Mach1 GEM. The C925 has a brighter view - and it does have better edge performance than any other SCT I've owned, but the sharpness and contrast in the Tak are better and make up a lot for the slightly dimmer picture.
Both scopes are quite happy with the 130 - 140x magnification I like for DSO, but the Tak definitely wins on FOV. My C925 is happier with a diet of Pentax XW and Nagler T4 eyepieces - the Tak loves the Ethos and really shows off that magnificent FOV to great advantage. 
The Tak takes less time to cool down and settle in, but the C925 isn't far behind.
So which one do I like better? I must confess that I grew up with refractors and am biased in that direction, but it really depends on which day of the week you ask. 
Cheers,
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.
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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2079
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Quote:
The thing is portability...the 5 inch apo on the gm8 is not exactly grab and go. With the money I have I could sell off the apo and use that money for a c9.25 to use on the gm8 when I can out some time into observing and also get a nexstar 6se for a grab and go that would be used 80% of the time because my schedule is rough and I am usually tired and want to look at stuff but don't have energy to set up and find things...but a small apo is too small...a 6 inched would show me a lot...I am still thinking because the refractor puts up good images but I only use the set up once in a while and I wanna go outside more...sometimes even for 10-15 minutes....if money wasn't an issue I would get the 6se without selling anything but the truth is with my about two years from defending my thesis ...things got real busy and I am finding myself not going out much because I am fatigued....now I do go to outreach events or sometimes have time off so would want a bigger scope to use....the twelve inched only gets used when I go up north (Michigan) over the summer....love it!
Abe,
Hang in there, dude. It will get better sometime. Trust me, I've been there, too. 
Based on what you're saying, I would tell you that the 6SE is a very nice little setup - I use mine during the cold winter months when I don't plan long sessions. But it is NOT a GnG rig - the 6 inch SCT still needs an hour to cool off and settle down. For real GnG, I have used 80 - 90mm Apos on the SE mount. I know these might seem too small for you, but I can always find plenty of things to look at.
Before I got the Mach1, I used a GM-8. Both the C925 and the 5 inch apo ride on this just fine. But since you already own a 12 inch SCT, I'm not sure you need the C925. It's light, but not much easier to handle than the 5 inch refractor - plus mine needs at least 90 minutes to cool off and settle down for best results.
More food for thought (and best of luck with your studies  ) ,
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.
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CounterWeight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 1292
Loc: PDX chronoplast
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I don't think it blasphemy (or if it is then I am guilty), as Jim mentioned - depends on what you're looking at (and willingness to install fans and cooldown / learning,dealing w/ collumation / installation req's) - as far as the apeture and fov and mag (all the usual suspects). I dont think there's a do-it-all scope any more than a do-it-all eyepiece, some come closer than others? There was a thread in the ATM forum about a very ineresting large "A" folded optic refractor....
As Luigi consistently advocates, if SCT(all variants) would include an efective active cooling 'off the shelf', I think they could gain a significant market share. Not just for initial cooldown, but in the course of a night here there can be significant temp changes.
Back to topic though, I found the differences between the C11 and FS 128 to be significant and obvious. A friends 9.25 was between the two - closer to the 11" SCT. There is a significant difference in looking at M57 in a refractor and an SCT, but all optics firing on all four between the scope types, I like seeing it there in the wider field. Same goes for a lot of others... that 'hanging in space', but I also like the up close and in the face effect of larger "A". (I see in your sigline the 12" LX)
Hard put to only have one and state the shoe would fit all... but I think it part of the process to try it out? I say get the 9.25 or 8" or 6" and give it a whirl and you'll know what the answer is 'for you' in your skies, schedule, and time restrictions/requirements. Thankfully the price of admission is far lower to find out than same sized lensed apo's...
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 - 
CGE (Frankenmount mod.)
Onyx 80ED, Tak FS-128 #02058, TEC APO160ED #030
CCD: Orion SSPDSCIv2, SSI3, SSAG
diags, ep's, tubes, filters, Binocs
My CN Image Gallery
Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first, and gives the lesson later
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 7804
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Quote:
also get a nexstar 6se for a grab and go that would be used 80% of the time because my schedule is rough and I am usually tired and want to look at stuff but don't have energy to set up and find things...but a small apo is too small...a 6 inched would show me a lot...
sometimes even for 10-15 minutes....
The 6SE sounds good in concept, but for 10-15 minute session there are a couple things that might make it less than desirable. First, it takes a lot longer than 10-15 minutes to cool down, and secondly, it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes just to do an alignment.
For quick sessions, I like to use a pair of 15x70 binoculars mounted on my 475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head. There's something very special and rewarding about using both eyes to scan the heavens, and since the session is short and the fields of view are wide, there's no special 'hunting' required....just see what you can see. It's especially nice when you're tired and don't want to think about things.
If you want to do a quick session of planetary viewing, a 6" f/8 Newtonian on a Dob mount is a very good choice and they are quite easy to pick up and carry outside in one piece. Planets don't require much effort to find either. If you use a fan on the back of the mirror, they cool down pretty quickly too.
Speaking of planetary viewing, I've never been quite satisfied with my C6 SCT in that role. It's just a little bit too small in the aperture department to overcome it's large central obstruction, IMO. For brighter DSO's it does a fine job though.
Patrick
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10" f/6 Truss Tube Newtonian
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon XSi; Meade DSI;SPC900-NC
Vixen GP2 Photo Guider Mount
My Astronomy Pages
Edited by Patrick (11/03/09 11:28 PM)
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dscarpa
sage
Reged: 03/15/08
Posts: 252
Loc: San Diego Ca.
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I've had a C 9.25 for 2 years and have found it to be excellent for planetary if the seeing is decent. It's got enough light grasp for DSO's although at lower powers the views wash out in the suburbs. I was going to get a TMB 130SS or WO 130 but decided to get a used WO ZS 110. This scope is now on a Sky Watcher AZ4 mount, it makes for a nice light weight grab and go which is excellent for wide field and is big enough to be good on planets and the Moon. I've been very happy with this cat-refractor combo. Of course that didn't stop me from picking up that used IM 715 mak. David
Edited by dscarpa (11/03/09 06:04 PM)
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 7804
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Quote:
a used WO ZS 110. This scope is now on a Sky Watcher AZ4 mount
That would be a nice grab and go setup too!
Patrick
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10" f/6 Truss Tube Newtonian
Celestron C6S-GT SCT
AT66ED Refractor
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Binocular
475B Geared Tripod & 501HDV Head
Celestron Regal 8x42 Binocular
Canon XSi; Meade DSI;SPC900-NC
Vixen GP2 Photo Guider Mount
My Astronomy Pages
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Paul G
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 2268
Loc: Freedonia
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Quote:
Due to my personal experiences with Chinese output I would probably choose a U.S. made 9.25 over an "inexpensive" Chinese apo, some people are having good experiences with these, but I don't think the mechanical reliability is there.
Wouldn't it have to be a used 9.25? I thought Celestron's SCT's were all made in China now; the C14 is assembled in the US, but that's as close as it comes to US made.
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Gus
Tasco 4.5 Reflector EQ Telescope
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AlienRatDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/15/05
Posts: 1087
Loc: Ann Arbor
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Yeah, actually new financial unforseen circumstances may have me sell my ES127 and probably get a C9.25 and use the extra cash for next months rent....I still will have my GM8 mount...
--------------------
Abe -- the poor PhD student
-----------------------------------------
12" LX200GPS-SMT w/UHTC
Explore Scientific 127mm Triplet ED APO
Losmandy GM8 EQ mount
Nagler 31mm, 17mm, 13mm, 12mm, 9mm, 2.5x Powermate
12X50 Binoculars
Understanding wife
One beautiful daughter, Emma-Rose (born 7-29-2009)
Twin boys (cats), half Persian/half Alley Cat but all Vermin!
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 730
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Quote:
I own both a C925-CF and a Tak FS-128.
So which one do I like better? I must confess that I grew up with refractors and am biased in that direction, but it really depends on which day of the week you ask.
Cheers,
Ron
Ron I take that as confirmation of my own post: I said it was a draw, and I've owned both too. The C14 really outpaces both instruments however.
Greg N
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"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 730
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Quote:
Based on what you're saying, I would tell you that the 6SE is a very nice little setup - I use mine during the cold winter months when I don't plan long sessions.
Ron
that's what I use the FS128 for. Shorter sessions. And winter conditions, when I want a faster breakdown than the C14 will give. As to the China stuff: hell yeah, I am wary of Celestron SCTs made in China.
Probably a good thing, from that perspective, that I am getting a 10" Newt. I guess the only scopes you can get made in USA today are the ones you screw together yourself with US made mirrors or high end apos that take ten years to get. No wait, there are the ones that TEC makes.
Greg N
--------------------
"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
|
gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 730
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I guess I have to add that a four or five inch refractor mounted in tandem with a 9.25, C11, or C14 is a very fine way to navigate the blasphemy shoals between apo and central obstruction.
I wonder how I'm going to like my humongo 10" f/6 Newt. It's the biggest scope I have, but much less aperture than the C14. Makes you realize just what an SCT can accomplish.
Greg N
--------------------
"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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CounterWeight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 1292
Loc: PDX chronoplast
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Greg,
Agree with that. I had my FS-102 pb'd on the C-11, quite the joytoy for observing. As a previous lifelong SCt person I found myself consistently drawn to the refractor view... and I guess the sigline says the rest. But - my next scope will have a mirror... and possibly a corector plate, and maybe lenses in the exit tube? I don't see a larger triplet in my future. My little etx I just left outside (covered) but it was still fuzzy at times when the temps changing rapidly.
As far as a small SCt scope for g&g - I think a small 2 lens refractor a much better angle, or as Patrick said a pair on binoc's (I have 3 I use depending on ...)
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-
CGE (Frankenmount mod.)
Onyx 80ED, Tak FS-128 #02058, TEC APO160ED #030
CCD: Orion SSPDSCIv2, SSI3, SSAG
diags, ep's, tubes, filters, Binocs
My CN Image Gallery
Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first, and gives the lesson later
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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2079
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Quote:
Ron I take that as confirmation of my own post: I said it was a draw, and I've owned both too. The C14 really outpaces both instruments however.
You are correct, AFAIK. I like the brightness of the C925, but I love the contrast and better edges of the FS-128. I consider both of these to be "lifetime" scopes.
I wish I still had the strength and energy to handle the C14. That will have to wait for a permanent observatory.
Take care,
Ron
--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.
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